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If you face that many injuries, it's an issue of strength and conditioning...It's still a problem with your team sucking no matter how bad you want to try and spin it into a positive. You can make excuse after excuse after excuse but your team has 9 wins in 2 seasons. That's the bottom freaking line baph. Dress it up however you feel like to help you sleep at night...We had as many wins in one year last year (when our team supposedly wasn't as "well rounded" as yours) as your team had in two years. Period...
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1. they fired their strength and conditioning coach
2. i'm not a doctor but it seems to me having 9 guys go down with knee ligament tears might just be a freak thing, i'm not sure how you strengthen a knee ligament other than stretching.
3. yes, if the injuries continue like they have the chargers will likely miss the playoffs again but that's what you are banking on and i have to believe these injury issues will not continue to that degree.
all you are doing is going back and looking at win loss records from last year and the year before to justify why the chargers suck and why they will continue to do so.
on week 1 when our teams face you will not see a depleted chargers team that is missing multiple key guys on both sides of the ball, you will see for yourself what i am talking about.
when healthy the chargers are more well rounded than the broncos, meaning they have multiple good players on offense and defense and have a QB who is the leader of that team, not just defense like the broncos.
when i say well rounded, that's what that means. it doesn't mean how deep your team is at certain positions....it doesn't mean how many wins your team had. you seem like a smart guy frey and it's odd to me you can't figure that out.
who the hell is arguing that the broncos are not one dimensional and only good on defense? that's what they are at this point. with wade your defensive mastermind now gone, it will be interesting to see if the defense can still be elite and carry the offense.
even last year they couldn't do it with wade. my guess is if elway has a fantastic draft and gets a really good back (doesn't have to be mccaffrey, this draft is deep) and draft a LT in the first, they might be able to get that running game going and with your QB situation that's an absolute must if you want to compete for the playoffs IMO.Last edited by baphamet; 04-21-2017, 10:08 AM.Comment
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so, is that a WRAPaho?if i didn't just own you bad enough, here is another for good measure.
"Dwight is a big reason for that spin move and a guy named chuck smith......Dwight really showed me how to do it though" -melvin ingram
LOL@ arapaho claiming i am wrong 95% of the time, dude doesn't have the slightest clue what the hell he is talking about
you must be crushed right now, literally years of the same ignorant melvin ingram smack talk slammed directly in your face.
you too beaglederp!
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baph, as a total outsider I see your argument and I think you are wrong. Yes Denver's O outside of Thomas/Sanders is at best average, but that D will still be top10. All the Broncos need is the O to improve just a little and they will again be relevant in the West. As you say this prediction is pre-draft so an entire draft thrown at the offensive side of the ball may be all they need.Comment
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yeah, if elway has a really good draft which turns into Denver having a much more effective and consistent running game, i could see them being a contender and i have said that. but i don't agree that the offense just needs to improve a little, they need to improve a lot.
the reason being is i just don't see that defense continuing to be an elite top 3 defense like they have been in the past. they took a step back last season and now minus wade Philips i see them taking yet another.
don't forget, that defense was good but not great before wade got there with basically the same core of players. not to mention that Denver was one of the more healthy teams in the NFL last season, they will need to remain that healthy.
because a couple key injuries on defense will absolutely cripple that team IMO without a vastly improved offense.Comment
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you deny saying it has an effect 1 out of 1000 timesso you deny making that hail mary reference when talking about pressures? you deny saying it has an effect 1 out of 1000 times?
and how in the hell is a pressure per snap stat a fantasy stat? LOL
it's a stat that shows how often a pass rusher applies pressure per snap, has nothing to do with fantasy.
it was a fantasy website and had a great article showing you the importance of not just looking at sack numbers like you always do yet deny. i mean right there in that quote you are accusing me of saying a pressure is more important than sack, never once have i ever said that.
[/B]so who is lying again? do you honestly think it's hilarious i proved you wrong about ingram after all those years of smacking on him? pff has him ranked 6th, hes 7th among LB'er in sacks the last two years......i said when healthy we have seen flashes of dominance and he has been really dominant.
be a man and admit you were wrong, being in denial about it just makes it more comical lol
as far as what i said about freeney teaching ingram how to spin, prepare to get owned......
that article is a pretty good read, freeney did it for von miller, melvin ingram, and now beasley. you think you know so damn much but you don't know jack except how to look up sacks numbers and win loss records, ill teach you something bout this game one day boy!
another bap lie heres what I said
it's a stat that shows how often a pass rusher applies pressure per snap, has nothing to do with fantasy.I guess because that's the entire content of this thread...bap insisting ingram is one of the best pass rushers because of a fantasy metric stat that uses 'hurries"
you seem to be defending his opinion on the value of a Hurry,that probably 90 out of a 100 times has zero impact on a play
when you use a pff fantasy metric stat to justify melvins greatness...it has everything to do with fantasy
notice ingram is on the list of the most productive pass rushers in the league last year when you ignore the amount of snaps a player has, don't only look at sacks, and just look at the % of QB pressures per snap that he actually has
pressure is more important than sack, never once have i ever said that.
lol you opened your mouth and look foolish now. if you watched that game today then now you know how pressuring the QB can be better than a sack
......i said when healthy we have seen flashes of dominance and he has been really dominant.
what have you proved...that he is top ten? with more seasons under his belt getting a single sack than seasons with at least 9 sacks, that his first 3 seasons netted him 6 sacks compared to shane ray doubling that in 2...he has had one good season...
nothing more..shane ray has shown more in his first two seasons that Melvin in his first three
as far as what i said about freeney teaching ingram how to spin, prepare to get owned
and for the 100th time...as we have said over and over...we never contested your story that freeney taught Melvin the spin move, nobody cares if he did, we laugned at your insistence that the spin move was rare and vintage and seldom used in the league
freeney made a career out of that move and taught it to ingram apparently
not too many pass rushers use a spin move anymore
not too many pass rushers use a spin move anymore."
what part of that statement do you not understand? it's more of a vintage move that way more pass rushers back in the day used vs now
and again...NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO THE MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR... we cared about it being seldom used and vintage
Last edited by arapaho; 04-24-2017, 01:06 PM.sigpicwhen do native Americans become human and not mascotsComment
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learn how to multi quote dude, i mean seriously.
it's PFF, a reference you yourself have used on multiple occasions and a reference that is far more credible than you or i will ever be in terms of judging player performance.when you use a pff fantasy metric stat to justify melvins greatness...it has everything to do with fantasy
notice ingram is on the list of the most productive pass rushers in the league last year when you ignore the amount of snaps a player has, don't only look at sacks, and just look at the % of QB pressures per snap that he actually has.
that said, explain to me how the % of pressures per snap is only a fantasy stat? that's a stat that shows how efficient a pass rusher is per every snap they take. now, it is just for pressures but pressures have a much bigger impact that you obviously think they do.
ive posted this link before and this is the same kind of information you push aside and claim is a "fantasy stat metric" as if pressures per snap % has anything to do with fantasy football.
the fact of the matter is, pressures absolutely do have an effect on a lot of plays and you can see in that graphic in the link i posted, on average it has a huge affect.
oh and a point i have never made before which is relevant, a holding penalty can be better than a sack as well, in fact they are better than most sacks that are not more than 10 yards loses or are strip sacks.
pressure draws those holding penalties a lot of times of course.
you always try to pretend i say pressures are better than sacks just because i said they can be better, just like a holding penalty can be better. but the fact remains, pressure has an effect on the outcome of plays and it doesn't always show up on the stat sheet.
yeah, and? my response above covers any confusion you might have.http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...99#post4896599
lol you opened your mouth and look foolish now. if you watched that game today then now you know how pressuring the QB can be better than a sack
lets see.....you talked smack to me about my "flashes of dominance" comments, when i said that ingrams main issues have always been health. you said kendall reyas was a better pick than ingram, you called it a wasted pick and a bust.what have you proved...that he is top ten? with more seasons under his belt getting a single sack than seasons with at least 9 sacks, that his first 3 seasons netted him 6 sacks compared to shane ray doubling that in 2...he has had one good season...nothing more
but as i told you then, i actually watch the games. i seen "flashes" of a really dominant player but he always got hurt. well, the last two years he has been healthy and he is 7th in sacks among all LB'ers over that period and he is the ranked #6 edge rusher according to PFF last season.
BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN HEALTHY. he was considered the #6 edge rusher last season yet only had 8 sacks, there is a lot more to ingrams game than just sacks and that was the only point i ever tried to make about that.
oh and the point about the effectivness of pressure, i think the link i provided pretty much destroys that angle too.
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it is more seldom used than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago which makes it somewhat vintage, that was my point. today's pass rushers are far more about speed rushing (spinning slows them down obviously
) and if it was commonly used then why would two pros von miller and melvin gordon need advice from freeney on how to do it more effectively? because freeney is one of the few that have mastered it and uses it frequently.
the fact of the matter is, you talked smack for years about ingram and it has all been thrown back in your football ignorant face.
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of course arapaho negs me for embarrassing his sorry ass!
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learn how to multi quote dude, i mean seriously.
it's PFF, a reference you yourself have used on multiple occasions and a reference that is far more credible than you or i will ever be in terms of judging player performance.
that said, explain to me how the % of pressures per snap is only a fantasy stat? that's a stat that shows how efficient a pass rusher is per every snap they take. now, it is just for pressures but pressures have a much bigger impact that you obviously think they do.
ive posted this link before and this is the same kind of information you push aside and claim is a "fantasy stat metric" as if pressures per snap % has anything to do with fantasy football.
the fact of the matter is, pressures absolutely do have an effect on a lot of plays and you can see in that graphic in the link i posted, on average it has a huge affect.
oh and a point i have never made before which is relevant, a holding penalty can be better than a sack as well, in fact they are better than most sacks that are not more than 10 yards loses or are strip sacks.
pressure draws those holding penalties a lot of times of course.
you always try to pretend i say pressures are better than sacks just because i said they can be better, just like a holding penalty can be better. but the fact remains, pressure has an effect on the outcome of plays and it doesn't always show up on the stat sheet.
yeah, and? my response above covers any confusion you might have.
lets see.....you talked smack to me about my "flashes of dominance" comments, when i said that ingrams main issues have always been health. you said kendall reyas was a better pick than ingram, you called it a wasted pick and a bust.
but as i told you then, i actually watch the games. i seen "flashes" of a really dominant player but he always got hurt. well, the last two years he has been healthy and he is 7th in sacks among all LB'ers over that period and he is the ranked #6 edge rusher according to PFF last season.
BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN HEALTHY. he was considered the #6 edge rusher last season yet only had 8 sacks, there is a lot more to ingrams game than just sacks and that was the only point i ever tried to make about that.
oh and the point about the effectivness of pressure, i think the link i provided pretty much destroys that angle too.
show me one time I used a pff fantasy stat to prove anything...I use stats from various sources...I do not use FANTASY STATS
and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats
and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had
a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..
you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher
not simply pressures
as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack
now your being ridiculous
when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...
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there is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol
the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.
how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats
PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats
no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had
its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.
you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.
dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.
show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..
you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher
not simply pressures
i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.
it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack
now your being ridiculous
that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...
now that is ridiculous.
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no that is a absolute bull crap excuseit is more seldom used than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago which makes it somewhat vintage, that was my point. today's pass rushers are far more about speed rushing (spinning slows them down obviously) and if it was commonly used then why would two pros von miller and melvin gordon need advice from freeney on how to do it more effectively? because freeney is one of the few that have mastered it and uses it frequently.
the fact of the matter is, you talked smack for years about ingram and it has all been thrown back in your football ignorant face.
the spin move has always been used in fact I would bet its actually used more now than 20-30 years ago...big men are stronger, faster and more agile...and the spin move is used in every game by players from every team in every week of the season, including DTs
again what have you throw in my face...besides your whiney most injured ever excuses
or your worst defense ever
or worst special teams ever
or worst playcalling
or worst scheme
barney is a 5th year vet, OLB...with 24 sacks...nothing spectacular
Beasley has two years and already 19.5 sacks
by vons 5th year he had 60 sacks
chandler jones same 5 years as barney...47 sacks
r kerrigans 5th year came with 47.5 sacks
your trying to insist barney...like Lorenzo alexander with one good year is somehow one of the top pass rushers because of one good seasonsigpicwhen do native Americans become human and not mascotsComment
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ima say this real slow...I know you kellyann using alternative facts here...butthere is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol
the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.
how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.
PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats
no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".
its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.
you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.
dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.
show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.
i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.
it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.
that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??
now that is ridiculous.
I said your PFF article proclaiming barney a top 10 pass rusher by using pressures per pass rush snap....was a fantasy football article
I am not saying as you well know...that pressures are only a fantasy stat
I wanna talk about the spin....but didn't you post some BS article proving freeney was teaching the rare and vintage spin move?...that was you wasn't it
so when I laufgh at the entire joke of it being rare and vintage...some how I'm spinning?
lay off the weed dude
he didn't have the sack numbers...tackle for loss numbers...qb hit numbers...and sack numbers...its amazing how we keep informing you your fantasy of ..."we only use sacks" keeps getting ripped, but you still keep insisting
and now your gonna make foolish hypotheticals to prove a holding call is better then a sack...is that what your little smoke induced brain is resorting to
Last edited by arapaho; 04-24-2017, 04:11 PM.sigpicwhen do native Americans become human and not mascotsComment
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