Ok tell me the world hasn’t gone to hell in a hand basket

[Stackhouser]

I'm not one to think he's HOF worthy as a GM..... Yet...... He hasn't done it long enough to even sniff it. If he can be consistent, you never know, but I think he's been pretty outstanding so far. The proof is in the pudding since he took the job!!

[baphamet]

And for the record, I think Bethard got in because of his success in DC as a GM was to keep Gibbs around and get the right players no matter what numbers were on the check book.... HE DID HIS JOB SUCCESSFULLY..... His lone SD season was not part of it.

huh? half of his career as a GM was in San Diego, he was the GM during the entire decade of the 90's. i think you looked up his wiki page and seen he was a player for the chargers one lone season.

that said, yeah of course his success in Washington is why he got in, i was just making the point that an ex chargers GM is in the HOF as a GM, because 58miller said elway is a better GM than the chargers have ever had.

[Stackhouser]

He's been more successful than any Charger GM if you rate it against what the goal is.... Super Bowl..... But...... That's not all that matters. I don't care about the Bethard conversation.

Elway brought in the right ingredients as the GM and made it to the Super Bowl twice and winning one just in the short few years he's done the job. I don't care what checks he wrote, he won. That's it.... He's been successful!! Your hate for the man really shows.

[baphamet]

I'm not one to think he's HOF worthy as a GM..... Yet...... He hasn't done it long enough to even sniff it. If he can be consistent, you never know, but I think he's been pretty outstanding so far. The proof is in the pudding since he took the job!!

so what's going on right now? how come he hasn't been great at drafting? how come the moment manning retired and he let wade walk, the team took a huge step back? (i keep asking that question with no answer) i'm not saying he's been terrible, he's been a good GM for you guys overall. but he's vastly over-rated even though i think most people have come back down to earth in regards to elway as a GM.......other than the homers of course!

[Stackhouser]

so what's going on right now? how come he hasn't been great at drafting? how come the moment manning retired and he let wade walk, the team took a huge step back? (i keep asking that question with no answer) i'm not saying he's been terrible, he's been a good GM for you guys overall. but he's vastly over-rated even though i think most people have come back down to earth in regards to elway as a GM.......other than the homers of course!

So I guess without winning every season makes GM's bad? He lost a HOF QB. He lost a HOF DE/OLB. He lost other pieces including a head coach and other staff. He has to rebuild just like every GM has too. You think when Brady retires the Pats will still be the pats of the last 18 years?? He hasn't had the best drafts, I can agree with that but there have been pieces. This years looks promising. You call people in here homers.... Do you expect them to cast hate on their team? We all look past reality within our teams, even you have. Some keep things a little more in perspective than others, sure..... Bottom line, you have acted like Elway has sucked. He hasn't. Hes done his job no matter who's coattails you think he's been riding. He did his part as GM by bring those pieces in and now hes figuring out the rebuild process, just like every successful team has too when the stars move on.

[Rancid]

So I guess without winning every season makes GM's bad? He lost a HOF QB. He lost a HOF DE/OLB. He lost other pieces including a head coach and other staff. He has to rebuild just like every GM has too. You think when Brady retires the Pats will still be the pats of the last 18 years?? He hasn't had the best drafts, I can agree with that but there have been pieces. This years looks promising. You call people in here homers.... Do you expect them to cast hate on their team? We all look past reality within our teams, even you have. Some keep things a little more in perspective than others, sure..... Bottom line, you have acted like Elway has sucked. He hasn't. Hes done his job no matter who's coattails you think he's been riding. He did his part as GM by bring those pieces in and now hes figuring out the rebuild process, just like every successful team has too when the stars move on.

I'm not agreeing with Baph, but I do think without Manning, Elway has few achievements as a GM. Start with his hideous draft record, Then a turnstile at coaching staff and deplorable offensive line for several years. There's more, but I would say that if Manning never came along the Broncos would have a different GM right now.

[58Miller]

so what's going on right now? how come he hasn't been great at drafting? how come the moment manning retired and he let wade walk, the team took a huge step back? (i keep asking that question with no answer) i'm not saying he's been terrible, he's been a good GM for you guys overall. but he's vastly over-rated even though i think most people have come back down to earth in regards to elway as a GM.......other than the homers of course!

I guess I’m a homer, cause any GM who takes a 4-12 team and turns it into a 5 time division champ, 2 time AFC Champion and a Super Bowl Champion in his first 7 seasons sounds like success to me.

Peyton Manning was able to accoplish in 4 years in Denver with Elway what he accomplished in Indy in 13 years.

Set every regular season record and won his second Super Bowl.
Elway and Peyton both made the right decision. And Peyton humbled himself after Elway changed the team to a team carried by the defense he built.


But go on Baphs grade the Elway 1 losing season out of 7.

Baphs can you tell me how many GM’s have accomplished what Elway did in his first 7 seasons?

[baphamet]

I guess I’m a homer.

[baphamet]

I'm not agreeing with Baph, but I do think without Manning, Elway has few achievements as a GM. Start with his hideous draft record, Then a turnstile at coaching staff and deplorable offensive line for several years. There's more, but I would say that if Manning never came along the Broncos would have a different GM right now.

GREAT POST!!!

if you're not agreeing with me, you are taking it to another level.

homers that want to give elway all the credit in the world......

@MikeKlis
Following Following @MikeKlis

Little known fact: Jon Gruden was one of Peyton Manning's most trusted consultants when QB went through free agency in 2012. Gruden and then-DEN coach John Fox were tight through agent Bob LaMonte. Not saying Gruden led Peyton to DEN but he didn't talk him out of it.

[58Miller]

I'm not agreeing with Baph, but I do think without Manning, Elway has few achievements as a GM. Start with his hideous draft record, Then a turnstile at coaching staff and deplorable offensive line for several years. There's more, but I would say that if Manning never came along the Broncos would have a different GM right now.

That’s true but that’s like saying Bellichek has few achievements without Brady. Elway signed Peyton , he gets credit for all 7 years not just the seasons without Peyton.

[Stackhouser]

That’s true but that’s like saying Bellichek has few achievements without Brady. Elway signed Peyton , he gets credit for all 7 years not just the seasons without Peyton.

EXACTLY!!!! Manning didn't just show up to Denver without talking to the "Brass" and say, "I'm here, I'm taking over". Same with Kubiak, Wade, Ware, Talib, etc., etc..... Elway did his job as the GM to allow the success this team has had ALL 7 years under his watchful eye..... He gets the credit for doing his job through all of it.... I think a record of 72-40 (11 of that 40 is just from ONE losing season.... JUST ONE), 5 Div. Championships, 2 AFC Championships, and 1 SB Championship speaks for itself. Manning gets credit for being the HOF QB and leader of the players, Elway gets ALL the GM credit.

Looks like an enormous amount of success in 7 years if you ask me!!

[Stackhouser]

I'm not agreeing with Baph, but I do think without Manning, Elway has few achievements as a GM. Start with his hideous draft record, Then a turnstile at coaching staff and deplorable offensive line for several years. There's more, but I would say that if Manning never came along the Broncos would have a different GM right now.

Really? That's crazy!!! ELWAY GETS THE ACHIEVEMENTS AS GM FOR BRINGING HIM IN!!!!! We can't play the "what ifs". He brought in the best FA ever and won. How can anyone short him on that? He did his job.

[Sam_Z]

Really? That's crazy!!! ELWAY GETS THE ACHIEVEMENTS AS GM FOR BRINGING HIM IN!!!!! We can't play the "what ifs". He brought in the best FA ever and won. How can anyone short him on that? He did his job.

I don't think he's discrediting Elway but he is pointing out the obvious and that is Elway would have less without Manning. Its funny everyone wants to get offended when Manning is given more credit than Elway but just think for a minute what things would had been like if we were stuck with Tebow for a few more seasons following 2011. Perhaps we'd have Russell Wilson, Perhaps wed have zero division or conference titles.

Yes Elway brought Manning here, but because he understood that he needed Manning (its too bad most of his fans cant) otherwise we would have already had our first back to back losing seasons since the brady bunch aired...

[Rancid]

Really? That's crazy!!! ELWAY GETS THE ACHIEVEMENTS AS GM FOR BRINGING HIM IN!!!!! We can't play the "what ifs". He brought in the best FA ever and won. How can anyone short him on that? He did his job.

I agree with you that getting Manning was a great Achievement. In fact, I would go on to say that it took Elway, being one of the greatest of all time, to speak elite QB to Manning to get him here in the first place. Had it not been for Elway, Manning likely ends up in Tennessee.

Now that we have that out of the way-- what else has he done? I can name a few, he got Kubiak. He got Wade Phillips. He put together a real nasty defense. He boldly hung in with Von Miller during drug issues when some thought he should be traded. He recently signed a sick punter and got a reliable QB. So, he has done some things-- yet so has every other GM done things for their team.

What else has Elway done? Well, he drafted a whole bunch of guys in the first 3 rounds that don't play anymore. Ty Sambrailo ring any bells? How about Montee Ball? Ronnie 'the real-deal' Hillman (ROFL)? Like the first round pick of Paxton Lynch? Were you cool with letting the top DC Wade Phillips go so we could get Joe Woods instead? Are you a sure Vance Joseph can take this team to the playoffs? How many offensive coordinators have we had in the last 5 years?

Elway has done some good things, but there is an old saying, 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then'.

[arapaho]

I agree with you that getting Manning was a great Achievement. In fact, I would go on to say that it took Elway, being one of the greatest of all time, to speak elite QB to Manning to get him here in the first place. Had it not been for Elway, Manning likely ends up in Tennessee.

Now that we have that out of the way-- what else has he done? I can name a few, he got Kubiak. He got Wade Phillips. He put together a real nasty defense. He boldly hung in with Von Miller during drug issues when some thought he should be traded. He recently signed a sick punter and got a reliable QB. So, he has done some things-- yet so has every other GM done things for their team.

What else has Elway done? Well, he drafted a whole bunch of guys in the first 3 rounds that don't play anymore. Ty Sambrailo ring any bells? How about Montee Ball? Ronnie 'the real-deal' Hillman (ROFL)? Like the first round pick of Paxton Lynch? Were you cool with letting the top DC Wade Phillips go so we could get Joe Woods instead? Are you a sure Vance Joseph can take this team to the playoffs? How many offensive coordinators have we had in the last 5 years?

Elway has done some good things, but there is an old saying, 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then'.

Sounds more like sour grapes from you


Elway took over a 4-12 team , a under talented team, and by the third year built an offense that had just a few players that he inherited, and built one of the most potent offenses ever seen

After a blowout loss completely reversed course and built one of the greatest defenses to ever play and won the SB

And it sounds like your finding any thing to discredit him