Ok tell me the world hasn’t gone to hell in a hand basket

[Lumiere]

i stopped reading right there.

i'm always trying to discuss and talk football, most you broncos fans just want to cry about what i'm saying or say i'm trolling rather than debate me and you are one of them. also, it helps to understand that this is the smack section and if you want a healthy non smack debate, maybe the smack section isn't the place?

[Stackhouser]

I agree with you that getting Manning was a great Achievement. In fact, I would go on to say that it took Elway, being one of the greatest of all time, to speak elite QB to Manning to get him here in the first place. Had it not been for Elway, Manning likely ends up in Tennessee.

Now that we have that out of the way-- what else has he done? I can name a few, he got Kubiak. He got Wade Phillips. He put together a real nasty defense. He boldly hung in with Von Miller during drug issues when some thought he should be traded. He recently signed a sick punter and got a reliable QB. So, he has done some things-- yet so has every other GM done things for their team.

What else has Elway done? Well, he drafted a whole bunch of guys in the first 3 rounds that don't play anymore. Ty Sambrailo ring any bells? How about Montee Ball? Ronnie 'the real-deal' Hillman (ROFL)? Like the first round pick of Paxton Lynch? Were you cool with letting the top DC Wade Phillips go so we could get Joe Woods instead? Are you a sure Vance Joseph can take this team to the playoffs? How many offensive coordinators have we had in the last 5 years?

Elway has done some good things, but there is an old saying, 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then'.

Show me a GM that has aced every single pick, every single decision, etc..... He's done what he's had to do, and continues to do so.

[86Elwayfan]

Show me a GM that has aced every single pick, every single decision, etc..... He's done what he's had to do, and continues to do so.

IDK when i GM in Madden I'm 100% correct every time...then again i turn off the salary cap and trade for Superstars. #cheats

[baphamet]

says the guy whining about me talking smack err i mean "trolling" in the smack section.

[baphamet]

Show me a GM that has aced every single pick, every single decision, etc..... He's done what he's had to do, and continues to do so.

i'll show you a GM that was labeled one of the bets in the leauge (the very best and even HOF worthy by some of you) because he had one of the best ever to make him look good. i'll also show you a defense that their fans call the best ever not even sniff the playoffs the year after they carried manning to the SB because they didn't have peyton manning anymore.

i'll also show you a GM that hasn't been great at drafting players overall when compared to other GM's around the league.......yet you guys think hes such a great GM?

bottom line: he has done a good job as the broncos GM overall but he is vastly over-rated and most of it is you homers hyping him as this all time great GM. he's just another GM that was made to look great by one of the greatest QB's of all time, period.

[Stackhouser]

i'll show you a GM that was labeled one of the bets in the leauge (the very best and even HOF worthy by some of you) because he had one of the best ever to make him look good. i'll also show you a defense that their fans call the best ever not even sniff the playoffs the year after they carried manning to the SB because they didn't have peyton manning anymore.

i'll also show you a GM that hasn't been great at drafting players overall when compared to other GM's around the league.......yet you guys think hes such a great GM?

bottom line: he has done a good job as the broncos GM overall but he is vastly over-rated and most of it is you homers hyping him as this all time great GM. he's just another GM that was made to look great by one of the greatest QB's of all time, period.

First of all, I've never said he was HOF worthy.... Of course we'll see when he's done. He has done plenty in his first 7 years to be one of the better GM's no matter how much you hate him. Yes his offensive drafting has been off so far, but the draft is a crap shoot. He's drafted plenty of good players as well. Show me that every pick in SD/LA has worked out. I wouldn't say he is over-rated.... Maybe by some fans here but in general he hasn't been.

Keep saying because of Manning, he's looked good.... You're right. He looked like he made the right choice by signing him and winning the SB. What GM wouldn't have done that had they had the chance? You want to talk about after Manning retired. Don't all teams have to rebuild after losing positions and coaches? Especially the QB position when it's been led by one of the best ever? What happens if Rivers retires this year? Who you got after? Are the Chargers going to be as good? NO!!

[Lumiere]

First of all, I've never said he was HOF worthy.... Of course we'll see when he's done. He has done plenty in his first 7 years to be one of the better GM's no matter how much you hate him. Yes his offensive drafting has been off so far, but the draft is a crap shoot. He's drafted plenty of good players as well. Show me that every pick in SD/LA has worked out. I wouldn't say he is over-rated.... Maybe by some fans here but in general he hasn't been.

Keep saying because of Manning, he's looked good.... You're right. He looked like he made the right choice by signing him and winning the SB. What GM wouldn't have done that had they had the chance? You want to talk about after Manning retired. Don't all teams have to rebuild after losing positions and coaches? Especially the QB position when it's been led by one of the best ever? What happens if Rivers retires this year? Who you got after? Are the Chargers going to be as good? NO!!

Baph already mentioned in the past that he despises Elway...so it doesn't matter what Elway does or doesn't do, Baph will never give him credit for anything.

He won't even acknowledge that Elway constructed our Super Bowl winning defensive roster in 2015 - evidently Manning put that roster together.

[Lumiere]

says the guy whining about me talking smack err i mean "trolling" in the smack section.

It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.

[baphamet]

First of all, I've never said he was HOF worthy.... Of course we'll see when he's done.

https://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?241554-Can-Elway-go-into-the-HOF-again

i said "some of you" for a reason. it's funny how i told all of you right after that SB win in that thread that defense was made great by wade and i was definitely proven correct there, that broncos defense will never be a good as it was on wades watch.

He has done plenty in his first 7 years to be one of the better GM's no matter how much you hate him. Yes his offensive drafting has been off so far, but the draft is a crap shoot. He's drafted plenty of good players as well. Show me that every pick in SD/LA has worked out. I wouldn't say he is over-rated.... Maybe by some fans here but in general he hasn't been.

every GM has made bad picks and like i already said and have said several times before....he has don a good job as the broncos GM. the problem is people over-hyping him as one of the best GM's due to the sucsess the broncos have had since hes been the GM.

but when you look at it closer and realize that most of that success is due to one signing, you have to question the legitimacy of people saying he's one of the best GM's. especially given the fact that people reference the 2015 defense that carried manning to the SB but the very next season missed the playoffs without manning.

things i have already pointed out ad nauseam.

Keep saying because of Manning, he's looked good.... You're right. He looked like he made the right choice by signing him and winning the SB. What GM wouldn't have done that had they had the chance?

that is EXACTLY my point. what GM wouldn't have done that considering the broncos QB situation at the time? it's not like elway was the only GM with the fore site to sign the injured manning, there were multiple teams trying to get him, teams that offered more money and teams that had arguably a better roster at the time.

bringing in manning was a no brainer for elway, it was likely the only guy he could have brought in to extinguish tebow mania.

You want to talk about after Manning retired. Don't all teams have to rebuild after losing positions and coaches? Especially the QB position when it's been led by one of the best ever? What happens if Rivers retires this year? Who you got after? Are the Chargers going to be as good? NO!!

yes they do but all i hear is how the broncos had the best defense ever in 2015 and it was because of the defense elway built that they won the SB yet the very next year they not only didn't make the playoffs but that best defense ever took a pretty big step back.

my hate for elway is well documented but i only hold him to these high standards because so many of you seem to think he's one of the best GM's and i simply disagree or at least think he has more to prove.

[baphamet]

Baph already mentioned in the past that he despises Elway...so it doesn't matter what Elway does or doesn't do, Baph will never give him credit for anything.

He won't even acknowledge that Elway constructed our Super Bowl winning defensive roster in 2015 - evidently Manning put that roster together.

is that a fact?

bottom line: he has done a good job as the broncos GM overall

the broncos had a pretty good draft i must admit, best in the division this year, on paper at least.

chubb while a no brainer pick was arguably the best player in the draft and elway did good by taking him rather than trading the pick. really i liked the first 3 picks the broncs made and i do think the broncos got better this off season.

that said, the broncos didn't address the OL until the 6th round and it's obvious that they are not happy with their offensive weapons even with DT and sanders, considering they drafted 2 more WR's.

overall i think the broncos and elway deserve the credit they are getting from this years draft, congrats! :clap:

[Rancid]

Show me a GM that has aced every single pick, every single decision, etc..... He's done what he's had to do, and continues to do so.

How about, 'no'. I don't need to show you jack!

[Lumiere]

is that a fact?

Uh-huh. This from the guy who credits Manning as the architect of the 2015 defense.

Elway has made his share of mistakes, without question...but seriously, that's a laughable reach.

[baphamet]

Uh-huh. This from the guy who credits Manning as the architect of the 2015 defense.

Elway has made his share of mistakes, without question...but seriously, that's a laughable reach.

i don't recall saying manning created the defense in 2015. i do recall asking you why that same defense missed the playoffs the very next year without manning, though.

[BroncosFanInPA]

i don't recall saying manning created the defense in 2015. i do recall asking you why that same defense missed the playoffs the very next year without manning, though.

Just stop with the lies!

Malik Jackson left & Demarcus Ware only played 10 games & those were two very important pieces to that championship defense...

Elway drafted malik & brought demarcus in free agency so just knock it off with the naive crap, you know damn well elway built a world class defense but things can't always stay the same & you know it.

[Lumiere]

Just stop with the lies!

Malik Jackson left & Demarcus Ware only played 10 games & those were two very important pieces to that championship defense...

Elway drafted malik & brought demarcus in free agency so just knock it off with the naive crap, you know damn well elway built a world class defense but things can't always stay the same & you know it.

He needs a dumb scapegoat to validate his theory that Elway basically did nothing but sign Peyton Manning. The very notion that Elway built one of the greatest defenses in NFL history that carried a statistically terrible Manning to a Super Bowl championship, is egg on his face.

He wants to deflect the topic to 2016 because 2015 burns like acid in his mouth, and invalidates his nonsense.

The loss of Malik, Vance Walker, and a mostly wounded Ware, had a significant impact. With less interior talent, our rushing defense was a shell of its 2015 numbers. Football is a game if inches...and that difference can decide games (especially with a terrible offense). Baph knows this, of course, but this is exactly what he wants - to redirect the topic. To talk about the 2015 defense means that he has to give Elway props for building an historic defense.