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The broncos have a good roster......

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  • #16
    jackson > surtain

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    • #17
      Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
      Rosters have never been the Chargers' problem. It's their fans...or lack of them. The Chargers play half their games on the road and the other half on a neutral field, and always have.
      so you're saying the chargers lose because they lack fan support but when they win it's in spite of fan support?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by baphamet View Post

        so you're saying the chargers lose because they lack fan support but when they win it's in spite of fan support?
        So you're saying when the Chargers win they do it because of their rabid fan support and when they lose it's despite their rabid fan support?

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        • #19
          I can certainly follow your logic and understand your enthusiasm. However, talent on paper often doesn't correlate to performance. We have both seen this scenario play out. Almost always it comes back to team chemistry and which team wants it more. It will be fun to watch it develop on the field.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by baphamet View Post

            herbert lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives in 2021. one thing I will give you credit for, you were right about rivers getting rattled late sometimes. he was always trying to make something happen late and you could see he was rattled at times. he just didn't have the physical talents to do it consistently, as well as the pass protection.

            odd that the chargers have now drafted two stud OL'men in the first round back-to-back years now that he's gone. I bet he's salty about that.

            herbert on the other hand not only has the physical talent, but the kid simply has ice in his veins. he doesnt get rattled.

            herbert couldn't be more different than rivers, pretty much across the board.
            The Chargers have had a nice off season there is no denying that. You guys have the edge on the offensive side to start out, but I believe the Broncos will gel as a unit quickly. I still feel we have the edge on defense with our core plus additions. Van Noy and Callahan could be two huge signings though. It will be a very entertaining AFCW and I personally believe the Chiefs reign of terror is over.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by baphamet View Post

              how are you going to run against a DL that was overhauled just to stop the run?

              two of the interior linemen they brought in were both top 15 in run stop rate, SJD was best in the league in that regard last season. not to mention bosa who was the only consistently good run stopper from last year and add in mack, who is also a good run stopper. both mack and bosa are really good setting the edge.

              if you think you're facing the same defense from last season and are banking on your team being able to run easily, you're in for a surprise.


              herbert = wilson
              ekeler/spiller = williams/gordon
              allen/williams/palmer = sutton/jeudy/patrick
              Everett/Parham >>>>> Tomlinson/Saubert
              slater/feiler/linsley/johnson/norton >> Bolles/risner/cush/glasgow/turner

              advantage: Chargers


              mack/tillery/SJD/johnson/bosa >> chubb/jones/purcell/jones/gregory
              Tranquil/van noy = jewell/singleton
              jackson/samuel/callahan/davis > Surtain/darby/Williams/some other scrub
              james/adderly = simmons/jackson

              advantage: Chargers

              I'm being very fair with this too. there is not one position group on the broncos both offense and defense that you can say is clearly better than the chargers. comparable? yes, but not better. however, there are multiple position groups on both offense and defense that you can say without a doubt is better on the chargers.

              don't even try to tell me chubb and Gregory are anything even close to mack and bosa.chargers' corners are clearly better and deeper as well. the chargers OL is better and more talented. tight end is a group that isn't even close. the chargers had a better TE group last year when the Broncos had fant and they only got better this year.

              everything else you can say is comparable/ arguable. the only spot you can say might be better on the broncos team is ST's. it's not hard to be better than the league's worst ST's unit for the last 3 years. but then again the chargers overhauled that as well

              so we will see.
              Lol!!!! Big paragraph to try and explain how scary your team is, I still remember your elite QB having to throw a hail mary prayer just to score 13 pts.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by lvbronx View Post

                So you're saying when the Chargers win they do it because of their rabid fan support and when they lose it's despite their rabid fan support?
                I don't say ridiculous things like that. not having the best fan support is no excuse, you seem to be making that excuse for them, why?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Broncos1963 View Post
                  I can certainly follow your logic and understand your enthusiasm. However, talent on paper often doesn't correlate to performance. We have both seen this scenario play out. Almost always it comes back to team chemistry and which team wants it more. It will be fun to watch it develop on the field.
                  yes I know, this is a line from my original post.

                  "this is not me saying they will for sure win the division, chargers always seem to charger after all! but talent-wise, no team in the division stacks up. (although it is still close)"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post

                    The Chargers have had a nice off season there is no denying that. You guys have the edge on the offensive side to start out, but I believe the Broncos will gel as a unit quickly. I still feel we have the edge on defense with our core plus additions. Van Noy and Callahan could be two huge signings though. It will be a very entertaining AFCW and I personally believe the Chiefs reign of terror is over.
                    let me reiterate, both teams are in great shape to compete for the division and possibly a SB. it is close on a lot of things and having the talent doesn't automatically make you better. but as far as talent, the chargers simply have more.

                    the charger's secondary is absolutely stacked now. the charger's secondary just has more firepower. they go 4 deep at corner, ball hawks all over the place now. with the front 7. it's close until you remember that bosa and mack are on the edges.

                    chubb and Gregory are not on that level although still good. it's going to be amazing seeing what bosa can do when he's not always double and triple-teamed literally every single game.

                    but I do know they are still the chargers, I'm not crowing them 2022 division champs by any means. no more excuses for this organization, they have everything they need to compete for a SB.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                      Lol!!!! Big paragraph to try and explain how scary your team is, I still remember your elite QB having to throw a hail mary prayer just to score 13 pts.
                      you got nothing, as usual.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by baphamet View Post

                        I removed some text just to cut down the amount of text.

                        herbert = wilson At this point, I'm still Russell>Herbert as an overall complete QB.
                        ekeler/spiller = williams/gordon I disagree here. I think Williams/Gordon are a more talented duo.
                        allen/williams/palmer = sutton/jeudy/patrick I think your top two are comfortably better but I think Jeudy is a better 3.
                        Everett/Parham >>>>> Tomlinson/Saubert Albert O/Dulcich=Everett/Parham. Both groups seems mediocre to me. Why do you feel so strongly here?
                        slater/feiler/linsley/johnson/norton >> Bolles/risner/cush/glasgow/turner Chargers by a lot. I'm not sold on the den o-line. (But, that means the drop-off for injury is less. Uh...yippee?)

                        advantage: Chargers Agree but only because the margin in lineman is bigger than the margin in the other groups where I think den is better. Like you said, it's close overall.

                        mack/tillery/SJD/johnson/bosa >> chubb/jones/purcell/jones/gregory Agree. I'm not sold on the den D-line.
                        Tranquil/van noy = jewell/singleton Agree but they all seem mediocre to me
                        jackson/samuel/callahan/davis > Surtain/darby/Williams/some other scrub Agree but only by a small margin.
                        james/adderly = simmons/jackson Disagree, I think den is slightly better. Simmons=James, Jackson>Adderly

                        advantage: Chargers Agree. Again, it's due to the lineman.

                        All that said, I think Denver might have better depth on both sides to support the slight disadvantage in starters.


                        don't even try to tell me chubb and Gregory are anything even close to mack and bosa. True, but den has stronger depth for when Chubb gets hurt, inevitably. chargers' corners are clearly better and deeper as well. I don't share your degree of faith in the cbs.

                        the only spot you can say might be better on the broncos team is ST's. Den has had nothing here either so it might be a battle of meatballs (in boxing terms)

                        so we will see. Going to be fun for a change
                        10 characters
                        Last edited by Broncos1963; 05-07-2022, 11:41 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Broncos1963 View Post

                          10 characters
                          I don't see how you can say Wilson is a more complete QB? He's more experienced, he's proven he can win a SB with an elite defense and a good running game to help him. but more complete than herbert? how? other than experience herbert has it all.

                          the broncos RB's have talent but gordon always coughs up the ball and AE is by far better than either bronco's RB when you factor in pass-catching ability which is arguably the best in the league.

                          but after AE the chargers running back room was garbage last season. they drafted the consensus 3rd best RB in the draft and he fits what we need perfectly. so that's why I say it's pretty much even IMO.

                          both our TE's are proven weapons in the passing game, your TE's are not. i wouldn't even call the broncos TE group mediocre, it has to be closer to one of the worst TE groups in the NFL and the bronco's weakest position group on the team.

                          I won't argue your point about the safety, James isn't a pure safety anyways. though I do think he's a better overall player than simmons, both are great players. I still think james is the best player on our defense even with the additions they made.

                          if you would have said this a week ago (regarding edge depth) I would definitely agree. but the addition of van noy offers quality edge depth as well as MLB depth. reed or van noy? IDK but the difference isn't enough to offset the bosa/mack vs chubb/gregory IMO

                          not too many teams have 4 quality corners that all have starting experience. the chargers also spent their 3rd round pick on another ball-hawking safety so james can do what he does best.....roam the field and make plays everywhere.

                          I'm not sure if Denver has better overall depth. in the past yes, this year? not in the secondary, not on the OL, not in the front 7 IMO. offensively you could make the argument the broncos have better depth at WR and RB. I just don't think most non-chargers fans realize how much they beefed up their defense overall. not just with starters, depth too.

                          all that said, I'm biased of course.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by baphamet View Post

                            I don't see how you can say Wilson is a more complete QB? ...

                            all that said, I'm biased of course.
                            I almost didn't post my last reply simply because I knew I was writing out my bias and I don't research other teams players enough. You're far more informed on Den than I am on LA but sometimes I just like talking about football, biases be-damned.

                            QBs: You said what I would have written, it's simply Wilson's experience. I place a high value on that. Just like Charger players are excited about playing with Herbert's skill/potential/future, Denver FINALLY have someone who has fired up the players again. The advantage I give Wilson here is that I think he knows how to use that excitement and how to rally his teammates around every detail: film study, practice speed, hard work etc. That advantage comes from his experience as a starter but also for the work habits that he had to follow in order to become a starter. Wilson's leadership advantage is simply a product of more years following those habits. It takes time to learn how to lead a group of alpha men. Like Peyton, Wilson will also demand more and get it. Den hasn't even approached that ability since 2015. I have no doubt Herbert is on this journey, he simply has less years of doing it. And, you're right, he has everything else.

                            RBs: LA definitely improved more here but I give the room edge to Den. I'm not even a fan of re-signing Gordon because I wanted Boone to get more touches. But MG played well last season, mostly. I certainly concede AE is the best receiver but Gordon and Williams are both good, just not great. My tiny advantage is: Gordon still has homerun potential. Williams is the best pure runner (i.e. hardest to stop). Boone looked very good in his few chances last year (I thought the same in MN). Williams/Gordon are both strong at pass pro (Den needs this). Admittedly, Spiller might provide the diff here but he's unproven in NFL. Gordon's fumbling might negate everything I said, especially his fumble timing. My hope is that AE had more fumbles last year so maybe he'll "charger" your RB room. Yeah, even I don't believe that.

                            TEs: Are your guys proven weapons? I don't get to see a lot of Charger games so I don't have an "eye test" here. The stats seem to say they barely reach mediocre, especially catch percentage. I just don't have much info and perhaps they're better than I think. Denver TE: this is straight up bias probably. But AO passes the eye test to me, if he can stay healthy. Fant never looked special so I'm glad AO will get more opportunity. I think Albert can be very good. Dulcich is nothing yet but I'm buying into his potential as a worker that I think Wilson can mold into what he wants as a TE. I'll concede as I read this, I'm believing in potential.

                            S: Your new guy worries me, for the reasons you stated. But, I really like Caden Stearns so I think Den has a future starter.

                            Edge: Reed/Bonitto/Browning/Cooper simply gives Denver a good depth group. I have doubts that Van Noy can replicate is NE success. Sometimes Bilichek abandons players at the right time. If Bosa/Mack stay healthy, you're probably right. But I'm not a fan of what Den did with this position.

                            Overall: It's the O-Line and D-line where LA is solidly stronger, as starters. I keep wanting Den to focus on the trenches more as it always seems to be a "meh" priority. I'll stop writing novels. Thanks for the discussion. This year, watching both teams will be to see how far they go instead of just waiting for roster holes to blow up the season.
                            Last edited by Broncos1963; 05-08-2022, 10:19 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by baphamet View Post

                              how are you going to run against a DL that was overhauled just to stop the run?

                              two of the interior linemen they brought in were both top 15 in run stop rate, SJD was best in the league in that regard last season. not to mention bosa who was the only consistently good run stopper from last year and add in mack, who is also a good run stopper. both mack and bosa are really good setting the edge.

                              if you think you're facing the same defense from last season and are banking on your team being able to run easily, you're in for a surprise.


                              herbert = wilson
                              ekeler/spiller = williams/gordon
                              allen/williams/palmer = sutton/jeudy/patrick
                              Everett/Parham >>>>> Tomlinson/Saubert
                              slater/feiler/linsley/johnson/norton >> Bolles/risner/cush/glasgow/turner

                              advantage: Chargers


                              mack/tillery/SJD/johnson/bosa >> chubb/jones/purcell/jones/gregory
                              Tranquil/van noy = jewell/singleton
                              jackson/samuel/callahan/davis > Surtain/darby/Williams/some other scrub
                              james/adderly = simmons/jackson

                              advantage: Chargers

                              I'm being very fair with this too. there is not one position group on the broncos both offense and defense that you can say is clearly better than the chargers. comparable? yes, but not better. however, there are multiple position groups on both offense and defense that you can say without a doubt is better on the chargers.

                              don't even try to tell me chubb and Gregory are anything even close to mack and bosa.chargers' corners are clearly better and deeper as well. the chargers OL is better and more talented. tight end is a group that isn't even close. the chargers had a better TE group last year when the Broncos had fant and they only got better this year.

                              everything else you can say is comparable/ arguable. the only spot you can say might be better on the broncos team is ST's. it's not hard to be better than the league's worst ST's unit for the last 3 years. but then again the chargers overhauled that as well

                              so we will see.
                              You could have made this same exact argument last year and then 28-13 happen!!!!!

                              Have fun with your paper champ. Your team is one dimensional on offense, and your defense couldnt stop anyone last year. Broncos got the blueprint to be Herbert.
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 58Miller View Post

                                You could have made this same exact argument last year and then 28-13 happen!!!!!

                                Have fun with your paper champ. Your team is one dimensional on offense, and your defense couldnt stop anyone last year. Broncos got the blueprint to be Herbert.
                                did you get hit by a bus last November and just wake up from a coma?

                                where was the "blueprint" to beat herbert when the broncos got curb-stomped 34-13 in week 17?

                                nevermind that though, do you actually think the chargers have done nothing to improve their defense this off-season? how about their OL? RB? you do nothing but waste my time with idiotic takes that will certainly come back to bite you.

                                you have been talking a lot of crazy crap about the chargers this off-season, you better not run and hide when I inevitably light your ass up in smack this fall.

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