Herbert and Wilson and whatever is playing in Vegas all suck

[Stackhouser]

No, not just on paper. Herbert is physically superior to Mahomes in terms of size, speed and he throws better, more accurate passes than Mahomes throws in reality. All you need is eyes and a stopwatch to see that that is true in reality.

Also, what you characterize as "outsmarting a coach" is in reality a purely mathematical analysis based upon certain assumptions. I am sure that Staley understands football techniques better than I do. However, he does not get to create his own rules when it comes to mathematics.

The mathematical analysis is really quite simple. If you assume defenses of equal strength, but that your offense is better than your opponent's in terms of expected points per drive, then you want a game that has more offensive possessions because that should allow the expected point difference to become more pronounced. The worst of all worlds in that situation is an offensive scheme that tends to limit possessions coupled with a defensive scheme that also tends to limit possessions, which is exactly what the Chargers have had under Staley to this point.

Such a combination also tends to produce more close games, so it no surprise that the Chargers played in 12 one possession games in the 2022 regular season.

Making claims like the highlighted is laughable, and at this point, opinion based. Please provide data supporting otherwise!!

[baphamet]

Making claims like the highlighted is laughable, and at this point, opinion based. Please provide data supporting otherwise!!

It is an opinion but an opinion I happen to agree with. Mahomes has had the best offensive mind in football his entire career and Herbert has had one of the worst. other than his rookie season, arguably the best rookie season any QB has ever had.

If we are talking just physical ability, Herbert is one of the best physical talents to ever play QB in the NFL. stats or wins don't prove this right or wrong, you have to actually watch the kid play.

[BiscuitBronco]

Hate to say it but the Bolts are gonna be the team to beat in the West. Chiefs will be a bit soggy this year and faiders, as usual, are irrelevant

[Stackhouser]

It is an opinion but an opinion I happen to agree with. Mahomes has had the best offensive mind in football his entire career and Herbert has had one of the worst. other than his rookie season, arguably the best rookie season any QB has ever had.

If we are talking just physical ability, Herbert is one of the best physical talents to ever play QB in the NFL. stats or wins don't prove this right or wrong, you have to actually watch the kid play.

I have watched him play.... Tons..... He is a great QB with insane physical talent, and so is Mahomes, but it's still just opinion based. Mahomes has had a great offensive mind leading the team, but we're not talking about that. The quote from WeHaveHerbert was "Herbert is physically superior to Mahomes in terms of size, speed and he throws better, more accurate passes than Mahomes". Yes, he's taller and heavier, so he wins that part. Other than just watching the games with the bolt colored glasses or the ugly red & yellow type, I believe there is zero data that supports the statement.

Herbert had a great rookie season. Won the rookie of the year, I know...... Mahomes didn't start as a rookie but his first full season starting, he won MVP and had much better stats than Herbert comparing their first seasons as starters. Now, stats are a result of play and the physical ability to move with speed and agility and seeing the field affects your stats. Mahomes also throws some of the craziest passes I've ever seen, and it seems it's always against Denver. That's a physical attribute. Accuracy is actually one WeHaveHerbert quoted and TD/int ratio plays into that. it's not close. Mahomes beats Herbert in every category their first three seasons as starters with the exception of yards, but only by 221 yards (Herbert played 4 more games in the regular season those 3 years). Lets look at QBR those 3 years. I know you know what QBR is, but for the sake of our readers, QBR incorporates all of a quarterback's contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers, and penalties. Mahomes avg. was 78.7, Herbert 62.1. Mahomes QB rating avg. was 109.1, Herberts avg. was 96.2.

I can't believe I'm arguing for Mahomes.... I just puked in my mouth writing this, (and I would admit that I'd rather have Herbert than Mahomes for the long run). I just think Mahomes has shown superior physical attributes at this point. I'm not saying Herbert isn't right there, and may prove better, but it's all opinion based against fan bases at this point. I'm a Bronco fan for pete's sake!!!! LOL

[baphamet]

I have watched him play.... Tons..... He is a great QB with insane physical talent, and so is Mahomes, but it's still just opinion based. Mahomes has had a great offensive mind leading the team, but we're not talking about that. The quote from WeHaveHerbert was "Herbert is physically superior to Mahomes in terms of size, speed and he throws better, more accurate passes than Mahomes". Yes, he's taller and heavier, so he wins that part. Other than just watching the games with the bolt colored glasses or the ugly red & yellow type, I believe there is zero data that supports the statement.

well, Herbert is bigger and faster and IMO has a stronger arm, and is indeed more accurate when throwing down the field. physically, he is superior to Mahomes IMO.

the difference is Mahomes makes things happen more often with weird unconventional passes that leave you scratching your head. he also, as I said, has an offensive mastermind as a head coach and play caller.

Herbert had a great rookie season. Won the rookie of the year, I know...... Mahomes didn't start as a rookie but his first full season starting, he won MVP and had much better stats than Herbert comparing their first seasons as starters. Now, stats are a result of play and the physical ability to move with speed and agility and seeing the field affects your stats.

Herbert had shane steichen in his rookie season as a play caller but freaking joe lombardi the last two. I mean, Herbert had the second-lowest air yards last season despite having that howitzer cannon for an arm.

the term "handcuffed" doesn't even do it justice. Im not saying mahomes wouldn't have had a similar rookie season, but he damn sure would have had the best play caller in football just as he has enjoyed his entire career.

look at Reid's track record with QB's, he's elevated them all. It would be naive to think he hasn't elevated Mahomes, even though Mahomes is definitely an elite talent for sure.

Mahomes also throws some of the craziest passes I've ever seen, and it seems it's always against Denver. That's a physical attribute.

Herbert has made similar plays too, but I don't agree that has much to do with physical ability. Mahomes has done that a lot more. but then again, we are throwing scheme and personnel into the mix.

Accuracy is actually one WeHaveHerbert quoted and TD/int ratio plays into that. it's not close. Mahomes beats Herbert in every category their first three seasons as starters with the exception of yards, but only by 221 yards (Herbert played 4 more games in the regular season those 3 years). Lets look at QBR those 3 years. I know you know what QBR is, but for the sake of our readers, QBR incorporates all of a quarterback's contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers, and penalties. Mahomes avg. was 78.7, Herbert 62.1. Mahomes QB rating avg. was 109.1, Herberts avg. was 96.2.

nope, this is where scheme, play calling, and personnel come into play. you simply cannot say one QB is more accurate than another simply by saying his TD/int ratio is better or even completion percentage.

even total QBR does not take into account scheme or play calling and even to an extent personnel. Give andy reid justin herbert or give Herbert an above-average offensive mind with an above-average offensive scheme and then we can make the total QBR comparison.

I think that will happen this season.

can't believe I'm arguing for Mahomes.... I just puked in my mouth writing this, (and I would admit that I'd rather have Herbert than Mahomes for the long run). I just think Mahomes has shown superior physical attributes at this point. I'm not saying Herbert isn't right there, and may prove better, but it's all opinion based against fan bases at this point. I'm a Bronco fan for pete's sake!!!! LOL

I don't deny Mahomes is the superior QB overall right now. but it's not because he is physically better. you know how I feel about phil rivers, he will and should be in the HOF one day. but that dude is a slightly above-average physical talent at best.

rivers' best years were with who? That's right, norv freakin turner! another offensive mastermind.

it takes more than physical talent to be the best and to be successful. but as I said before if we are only talking physical talent........ Herbert has it all and I can't think of very many QBs who have played the game I can honestly say have/had better physical attributes you want in a QB, if any at all.

just my opinion.

[baphamet]

oh, and herbert plays for the Chargers and Mahomes plays for the Chiefs and refs! (had to throw that out there! )

[JPPT1974]

Refs do seem to have their favorites now don't they?!

[jazzbodog]

Hate to say it but the Bolts are gonna be the team to beat in the West. Chiefs will be a bit soggy this year and faiders, as usual, are irrelevant

You hate to say it but your never wrong "crystal ball" has revealed true AFC West total reality and the Bronco Nation will be blown off planet NFL. True prophecy.