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  • #76
    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    Decent run for a schedule of 3 teams with winning records...
    I love how much faith you put into records...and pay no attention to actual games being played. You think that the fact that other teams have crap records, makes another team horrible? Where did you learn logic?


    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    Did you just actually say Fresno?:doh:
    40-28. I think I don't have to say much else, other than...yes...I did say Fresno.


    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    Boy if thats not hypocritical I don't know what is...
    4-7 in the last 5 seasons against BCS teams...now let me translate for you...thats a losing record. Getting it yet???
    Do you have any idea what the word hypocritical means? Because you just demonstrated you don't. That has nothing to do with what I or even you said...

    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    4-7 in the last 5 seasons against BCS teams...If it is getting repetative, I hope so because obviously I'm having to drill it into your brain.
    Again, you act like Boise State is the only team in history that has lost games...most of which being close... You really have been reaching the entire duration of this discussion.



    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    Of course you don't see anything haulting them...they haven't played anyone to make anyone think different. Keeping around 10 wins every season is good, but once again you fail to point out your weak schedule on a season by season basis.
    Do you even pay attention to football? I mean, period? They haven't played anyone? Wow. You really don't know much do you. Did you forget about the 4 wins that YOU pointed out? And in case you're unsure....you think BCS teams are godly...so...if we beat four of them...how is that playing no one?

    So what if we've lost 7. You really do pick and choose. I wonder how many teams your team has lost against...or any other team for that matter.

    Since when does anything you've brought up really matter....you are after all one of the ones that keep talking about not living in the past.

    And, I don't see anything haulting them because nothing has yet....you realize this is the first year we haven't won our conference since we became a Division I team? Geez...



    Originally posted by martz11 View Post
    here's the future...WAC 0-2 already this bowl season. Future is looking pretty good for BSU, they hung in there with that up and coming ECU squad.
    So, now you only base the future on one season. Or one set of bowl games? And I already reminded you that Fresno destroyed GT.... wait, isn't Georgia Tech one of those BCS teams you keep salivating about?

    :doh:

    Besides, isn't this thread about Hawaii? Stop singling out Boise State....I know I've included Hawaii and Fresno in my posts...because that's my point. they are the three most likely teams (and let me repeat this about Fresno: They used to be more dangerous, not so much anymore) that can compete in BCS conferences.
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    • #77
      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      I love how much faith you put into records...and pay no attention to actual games being played. You think that the fact that other teams have crap records, makes another team horrible? Where did you learn logic?
      Last time I checked records reflect on the "actual" outcome of a game...


      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      40-28. I think I don't have to say much else, other than...yes...I did say Fresno.
      Wow congrats on Fresno beating a 7-6 GT squad, hang your hat on that great win for your conference...


      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      Do you have any idea what the word hypocritical means? Because you just demonstrated you don't. That has nothing to do with what I or even you said...
      When I said hypocritical I was talking about how you say that I can't make an assumption about BSU in a BCS conference, but then you turn around and say that they would be atleast .500 in a BCS conference....see makes no sense does it?

      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      Again, you act like Boise State is the only team in history that has lost games...most of which being close... You really have been reaching the entire duration of this discussion.
      So now losing close matters :doh:



      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      Do you even pay attention to football? I mean, period? They haven't played anyone? Wow. You really don't know much do you. Did you forget about the 4 wins that YOU pointed out? And in case you're unsure....you think BCS teams are godly...so...if we beat four of them...how is that playing no one?
      You mean the 4 wins in the last 5 years? LMFAO!!!! Oh man are you really serious when you say that? Hell UCLA had 5 wins against BCS teams....THIS SEASON!!!

      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      So what if we've lost 7. You really do pick and choose. I wonder how many teams your team has lost against...or any other team for that matter.
      How did I choose those 7 losses? Hello all those losses were to BCS teams, not making stats up here. And concidering my team plays 9 BCS teams a year...I would say the bulk of that

      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      Since when does anything you've brought up really matter....you are after all one of the ones that keep talking about not living in the past.
      Keeps talking about not living in the past??? Your the one that keeps bringing up that Oklahoma game...http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...0&postcount=52...and thats just one of the several post...infact you mention them in your very first post on this matter

      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      And, I don't see anything haulting them because nothing has yet....you realize this is the first year we haven't won our conference since we became a Division I team? Geez...
      Of course nothing haults them....they don't play ranked opponents.



      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      So, now you only base the future on one season. Or one set of bowl games? And I already reminded you that Fresno destroyed GT.... wait, isn't Georgia Tech one of those BCS teams you keep salivating about?
      Yes go back and read through all my post...I was just talking GT up all over the place

      Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
      Besides, isn't this thread about Hawaii? Stop singling out Boise State....I know I've included Hawaii and Fresno in my posts...because that's my point. they are the three most likely teams (and let me repeat this about Fresno: They used to be more dangerous, not so much anymore) that can compete in BCS conferences.
      Go back to your first post and read everything very slowly...I'm sure that'll go over your head, just sit and think about it for awhile.


      Listen until your beloved BSU plays in a conference where there are legit teams with good players and records you have no substance on this subject. You'll never know and I've already given you all the facts...so keep on going cause this is such a waste of my time when I've proved you wrong on so many points.

      So have fun living in your "no shot at a national title" conference...I'm gonna watch the rest of this waxing that Georgia is laying on your mighty wac winner...

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      • #78
        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        Wow congrats on Fresno beating a 7-6 GT squad, hang your hat on that great win for your conference...
        you flip flop more than John Kerry Martzy Pantz.

        first you say the WAC can't handle BCS teams (that includes every single one of them) and I believe Georgia Tech is in a BCS conference, making them a BCS team that should, by your logic be able to mop the floor with any WAC team...and yet they got gutted by a WAC team than isn't even that good.




        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        When I said hypocritical I was talking about how you say that I can't make an assumption about BSU in a BCS conference, but then you turn around and say that they would be atleast .500 in a BCS conference....see makes no sense does it?
        That still doesn't define the word man. You are totally not using the correct word. I can admit that I see your point....but by no means does that make me hypocritical.

        The word refers to someone who says one thing...and does another...that's the easy definition anyway. What you're trying to say I have said is this:

        "Boise State could hold their own in a BCS conference and at least go .500..."

        and then say something like:

        "Well, I don't think Boise State would be able to handle so and so....and they probably won't win many games this season..."

        See, now that is being hypocritical. Or flip-floppy like you when you say that BCS teams are so much better than everyone else and then you try to tell me that certain BCS teams suck. Pick one.



        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        So now losing close matters :doh:
        it proves that a team can hold their own....even in a close loss. that's all i've been trying to say .... but you miss the point every single time and make assumptions on what i mean just so it helps your own frazzled argument.







        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        You mean the 4 wins in the last 5 years? LMFAO!!!! Oh man are you really serious when you say that? Hell UCLA had 5 wins against BCS teams....THIS SEASON!!!



        How did I choose those 7 losses? Hello all those losses were to BCS teams, not making stats up here. And concidering my team plays 9 BCS teams a year...I would say the bulk of that
        i'd like to know when i said you made stats up. the FACT is that Boise State doesn't play 9 BCS teams a year, so how could you possibly know what the outcome would be?

        In fact, I'm willing to admit that even I can't know that. I'm saying I BELIEVE they could compete (not dominate, which is what you seem to think I keep saying) and at least win half of their games. You keep telling me that you are certain for a fact (facts that don't exist because Boise State doesn't play in a BCS conference, by the way) that BCS teams would dominate BSU. But you can't possibly know that at all.


        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        Keeps talking about not living in the past??? Your the one that keeps bringing up that Oklahoma game...http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...0&postcount=52...and thats just one of the several post...infact you mention them in your very first post on this matter
        Again you pick and choose. I didn't start that conversation. I was replying to a post about Oklahoma. I didn't bring it up.

        Besides, you've done nothing but bring up PAST events this entire time...

        I mean, it's okay, you really can't not. We don't live in the future....We can look forward to it like I do....so really, this whole "living in the past" argument is ridiculous on both sides. Especially when you keep talking about records and 5 years this and that....that's all past statistics, last time I checked.



        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        Of course nothing haults them....they don't play ranked opponents.
        That's odd because we've played plenty of ranked opponents. And I guarantee Oregon will be ranked next season when we play them. Hawaii will be too, despite their giant ass-kicking.





        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        Yes go back and read through all my post...I was just talking GT up all over the place
        GT is part of the BCS team package you keep talking about.... they count just as much as any other team.


        Originally posted by martz11 View Post
        Listen until your beloved BSU plays in a conference where there are legit teams with good players and records you have no substance on this subject. You'll never know and I've already given you all the facts...so keep on going cause this is such a waste of my time when I've proved you wrong on so many points.

        So have fun living in your "no shot at a national title" conference...I'm gonna watch the rest of this waxing that Georgia is laying on your mighty wac winner...
        This is the closest thing to right you've been so far. And also what I've been trying to tell you.

        You just helped out my whole case. Boise State is NOT in a conference where they can show people what they can do. Case closed. End of story. You're absolutely right. So all of the stats and records talk you've thrown at me, you just debunked here yourself, and reiterated what I've been trying to get through your head. You say that I will never know....well, neither will you my friend.

        You're also right about Hawaii. I've hoped they would beat Georgia but I never thought they would be able to. It'd be great for us...but I never thought they were good enough. I've thought they are over rated from 3 seasons ago up until now and Brennan most of all. They're good, yes...but nothing like everyone keeps saying. They're not at the caliber that Boise State was last season...yet. They might get there...also my point. They're building their case...like we are. It's a continuing process, and failure is part of the learning and succeeding process.

        But this thing about "no shot at the national title conference"

        I might be mistaken, but this is the second time in as many seasons that the WAC has busted the BCS.... So don't say no shot. You don't know that for sure either... All it takes is a #1 or #2 ranking to get into that game. Boise State finished ranked #5 last season...not too farfetched after all huh?


        You are so fun to play with Martzy...you make me giggle.
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        • #79
          I kind of felt sorry for Hawaii tonight. I love my Bulldogs and I was very proud to see them dominate, but Hawaii looked totally overmatched. They had no answer for the size and speed of Georgia. That just shows you right there the difference in the talent gap between a strong WAC team and a strong SEC team.

          I'm glad Georgia won, and I'm not at all surprised, but Hawaii deserves props for playing classy and not rolling over in a game they really had no business being in.

          Still think they'd be undefeated if they played 5 or 6 teams of Georgia's caliber each year?

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          • #80
            Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
            I kind of felt sorry for Hawaii tonight. I love my Bulldogs and I was very proud to see them dominate, but Hawaii looked totally overmatched. They had no answer for the size and speed of Georgia. That just shows you right there the difference in the talent gap between a strong WAC team and a strong SEC team.

            I'm glad Georgia won, and I'm not at all surprised, but Hawaii deserves props for playing classy and not rolling over in a game they really had no business being in.

            Still think they'd be undefeated if they played 5 or 6 teams of Georgia's caliber each year?
            on one hand, i kind of thought it would be closer.

            on the other, i knew it wouldn't really be. because i've always felt that hawaii was over rated.

            as for being undefeated while playing 5 or 6 SEC teams....no way. but neither are the majority of the SEC teams that play those games...or any other team etc. it wouldn't really be a big deal to go undefeated if they won a few of them.

            but martz and i have been discussing that to the ground. IF mid-major teams had BCS schedules, could they compete? depends on the team...but they also wouldn't have to go undefeated to be in the same positions either.
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            • #81
              Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
              on one hand, i kind of thought it would be closer.

              on the other, i knew it wouldn't really be. because i've always felt that hawaii was over rated.

              as for being undefeated while playing 5 or 6 SEC teams....no way. but neither are the majority of the SEC teams that play those games...or any other team etc. it wouldn't really be a big deal to go undefeated if they won a few of them.

              but martz and i have been discussing that to the ground. IF mid-major teams had BCS schedules, could they compete? depends on the team...but they also wouldn't have to go undefeated to be in the same positions either.
              Good post, you make good points. You're right about them not needing to go undefeated if they were in a BCS conference. The area that I disagree with most of the WAC supporters is this: I do not think even the best WAC team would finish higher than .500 if they played in the Big 10, Pac10, SEC, Big 12, etc.

              This is not intended to be a knock against Hawaii, but you all saw the talent gap between Hawaii and Georgia, and I would venture to say Hawaii's talent level matches up closer to that of a Vanderbilt or Mississippi State, closer to the low end of the SEC. I think if those teams played a WAC schedule, they could get a BCS bowl very easily as well.

              Still, WAC teams really can't help that they struggle to get big recruits. Georgia usually has a top 10 class, or higher. Most WAC teams can't even dream of that (top 75 is good for them), so I really respect the fact that they do get such good production out of inferior talent. I hate seeing extremely talented teams end up being lazy or underachieving when you know the talent level is there for greatness.

              Hawaii is just unlucky they got matched up with Georgia, who in all honesty, had something to prove about getting slighted for the national championship game. Georgia probably would have destroyed just about anyone in this game just to prove a point.

              The WAC just needs to keep on doing what they're doing, send one team each year to a big bowl game to get some money for the conference, then they can increase their recruiting budgets, and things will improve. The conference is growing in popularity and strength and things are looking up for them.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                Good post, you make good points. You're right about them not needing to go undefeated if they were in a BCS conference. The area that I disagree with most of the WAC supporters is this: I do not think even the best WAC team would finish higher than .500 if they played in the Big 10, Pac10, SEC, Big 12, etc.
                I suppose when I say that I believe a few of the WAC teams could compete, it's more like eventually.

                I mean, it's not like a team like Hawaii who is still trying to build up their program could just be introduced into say, the PAC-10 and expect to come out very high. Really the same would be with Boise State, or Fresno...

                It would likely take a few seasons of getting adjusted, and building up recruiting, etc. That's if they want to expect to be a perennial contender.

                Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                This is not intended to be a knock against Hawaii, but you all saw the talent gap between Hawaii and Georgia, and I would venture to say Hawaii's talent level matches up closer to that of a Vanderbilt or Mississippi State, closer to the low end of the SEC. I think if those teams played a WAC schedule, they could get a BCS bowl very easily as well.
                My brother mentioned that Georgia probably loves playing the WAC...lol. But seriously, this is a team that was ranked #5 or around there all season and they just plain looked great last night. It reminded me of when BSU played them. It was like Hawaii didn't have a clue how to handle what was happening. I mean, maybe they might've faired better if it were a regular season game....but when they have all the hype that they did going into a major bowl game...it's just tough to adjust and it showed. I don't think the Hawaii players settled down all game. Brennan tried, but whenever he'd throw a successful pass, his own guys would ruin it by causing a penalty.

                You can't expect to beat Georgia when you cause a penalty every other play...or can't get settled down.

                Now, I agree. Hawaii would likely do just fine against the likes of a Vanderbilt or Miss. State. Heck, Fresno beat up on Georgia Tech, who is part of another great BCS conference and Fresno wasn't exactly a shining team this season. So it all just depends.



                Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                Still, WAC teams really can't help that they struggle to get big recruits. Georgia usually has a top 10 class, or higher. Most WAC teams can't even dream of that (top 75 is good for them), so I really respect the fact that they do get such good production out of inferior talent. I hate seeing extremely talented teams end up being lazy or underachieving when you know the talent level is there for greatness.
                All too true. That's a main struggle within the conference. That's a huge reason why these BCS berths are so important to teams like Hawaii and BSU because they bring in the money that the conference desperately needs to be able to go out and recruit decently.

                The WAC will never get amazing recruiting classes...it's just not going to happen. Although you get a few great players who decide to play for this or that school...you're right about not getting to pick from top 10 classes.

                It's also why I wish there was some way for BSU to switch conferences.

                Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                Hawaii is just unlucky they got matched up with Georgia, who in all honesty, had something to prove about getting slighted for the national championship game. Georgia probably would have destroyed just about anyone in this game just to prove a point.
                That's just it. Georgia flat out looked like they would roll just about anyone last night. Perhaps they should've gone up against USC. At least the game would've been more interesting.

                Moreno was explosive all night long...and probably would've moved well against a larger more impressive opponent. Although Hawaii probably had way more to prove to everyone than Georgia...or thought they did anyway, they really only proved they're not ready.

                Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                The WAC just needs to keep on doing what they're doing, send one team each year to a big bowl game to get some money for the conference, then they can increase their recruiting budgets, and things will improve. The conference is growing in popularity and strength and things are looking up for them.
                If this could continue to happen each year, then big things would start to roll in the conference I think. Especially the more budget there is for recruiting, the better talent the conference is going to end up getting. At least it'd be a step up from the top 75% hahaha.

                There's evidence already. I mean, BSU has seen the progress, where 6 years ago the school had to go out and search and convince and convince students to come play....now students have started coming to them wanting to play. That certainly makes things easier and I'm betting Hawaii has seen some of the same activity.
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                • #83
                  I agree with you on almost everything in that last post. Except for the fact that Hawaii had more to play for than Georgia. I thought that until I read Mark Richt's quote earlier this week.
                  "Somebody asked does Hawaii have more to play for than we do?" Richt said this week.

                  "They have a lot to play for, no doubt. But we do too. It is important for our young guys to know where we finish this year will probably have some effect on where we start next year."
                  Georgia was looking to make a case for a high pre-season ranking for next season. They will most likely be pre-season top 5 and they have the 3rd ranked recruiting class right now. Hawaii was at their peak, and Georgia is still looking up.
                  Last edited by ChampWJ; 01-02-2008, 12:03 PM.

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                  • #84
                    Hawaii sucks (the football team of course)

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by ChampWJ View Post
                      I agree with you on almost everything in that last post. Except for the fact that Hawaii had more to play for than Georgia. I thought that until I read Mark Richt's quote earlier this week.

                      Georgia was looking to make a case for a high pre-season ranking for next season. They will most likely be pre-season top 5 and they have the 3rd ranked recruiting class right now. Hawaii was at their peak, and Georgia is still looking up.
                      Makes sense. Georgia will now have an easier shot at the NC next season if they keep up a great run.

                      Hawaii probably would have ended up a few more spots up in the final polls, but they will probably not be ranked next pre-season. However, if they keep it up, they'll probably break the polls again.

                      I don't know what it is about Hawaii and their QB's. Everyone talks and talks and talks them up like they're amazing...but then, they're not really.

                      Timmy Chang was way more over rated than Brennan, I think. They made a big deal about him breaking the passing yards record or whatever one it was...but he also broke the NCAA interception record. Not one you probably want.

                      And Brennan throws a lot of them too. He can't be doing that if he expects to play in the NFL. Sure you can have a 400 yard passing game, but if you also throw 4 or 5 interceptions, the first stat doesn't matter much.

                      But, either way, at least Georgia will face a more closely matched foe next season if they have a similar season.
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                      • #86
                        I was hoping the Bows would give a fight, maybe even win, but my $$$$ were on the Dogs. I may be a Bows fan, by I am not stupid. The Bows flat out could not compete with that team. Too much speed, too much strength and better execution. Also, I think the level of confidence coming in had a lot to do with it. I think we (Bows) were confident we could compete with the Dogs, and June Jones was confident that we could win. The problem was that the Dogs were a polished and intelligent team, but a surprisingly young team, in some facets. My hats off to em. If you compare the two teams, you have a bunch of guys who will be prison guards in four years (Bows lineman) to a bunch of guys who will pro's in two to four years. I think the Bows line was far better last year (Steinhoff = ****hoff, you need to go play defense cause you couldn't block Lego) We might have posted closer to the spread if we had played them with last years team, but I think we would have still lost. Life goes on, and Dolt Brennan will go in the 6th round of the draft He put up good stats and performed well this year....but not against guys who will be or are pro prospects.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          you flip flop more than John Kerry Martzy Pantz.

                          first you say the WAC can't handle BCS teams (that includes every single one of them) and I believe Georgia Tech is in a BCS conference, making them a BCS team that should, by your logic be able to mop the floor with any WAC team...and yet they got gutted by a WAC team than isn't even that good.
                          Can't handle them on a weekly basis, please go back and reread my posts...


                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          See, now that is being hypocritical. Or flip-floppy like you when you say that BCS teams are so much better than everyone else and then you try to tell me that certain BCS teams suck. Pick one.
                          Never, never said that...again read post above.


                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          i'd like to know when i said you made stats up. the FACT is that Boise State doesn't play 9 BCS teams a year, so how could you possibly know what the outcome would be?

                          In fact, I'm willing to admit that even I can't know that. I'm saying I BELIEVE they could compete (not dominate, which is what you seem to think I keep saying) and at least win half of their games. You keep telling me that you are certain for a fact (facts that don't exist because Boise State doesn't play in a BCS conference, by the way) that BCS teams would dominate BSU. But you can't possibly know that at all.
                          My "stats that don't exist" is there record against BCS teams...hence 4-7, so that shows me that they have not been able to stay with those teams and the teams that I mentioned to tell you the truth were not even powerhouse schools. And BSU has been averaging what...9-10 wins a year for what now...6,7 seasons now? So it's not like they just got good last season, they've been good in there conference for awhile now, so I don't want to hear the so call "it takes awhile to build a program" when there record is 68-10 in the last 5 seasons.

                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          I mean, it's okay, you really can't not. We don't live in the future....We can look forward to it like I do....so really, this whole "living in the past" argument is ridiculous on both sides. Especially when you keep talking about records and 5 years this and that....that's all past statistics, last time I checked.
                          Once again see above post...

                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          That's odd because we've played plenty of ranked opponents. And I guarantee Oregon will be ranked next season when we play them. Hawaii will be too, despite their giant ass-kicking.
                          Plenty? I think it's what 7 in the last 5 seasons?

                          LSU has played 7 this season and 8 including there bowl, which is why they deserve to be in the title game. And thats exactly why I would take a 2 loss team over any WAC team.

                          Besides I can get started on how BSU is 2-5 against ranked teams the last 5 seasons, not bad for a 68-10 program losing half of those games to ranked opponents. Hey maybe thats a stats that doesn't exist either.

                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          But this thing about "no shot at the national title conference"

                          I might be mistaken, but this is the second time in as many seasons that the WAC has busted the BCS.... So don't say no shot. You don't know that for sure either... All it takes is a #1 or #2 ranking to get into that game. Boise State finished ranked #5 last season...not too farfetched after all huh?
                          Well think about this...2 undefeated teams the past 2 seasons and guess what? Neither finished above 5, I think BSU could go 17-0 and still not get into it. You need to play the competition is all I'm sayin...

                          Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                          You are so fun to play with Martzy...you make me giggle.
                          Dude I don't know what kind of guy you are, but I don't play for the other team if ya get my drift
                          Last edited by martz11; 01-04-2008, 09:40 PM.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by martz11 View Post
                            Dude I don't know what kind of guy you are, but I don't play for the other team if ya get my drift

                            A married one. with a cute little daughter.

                            Anyway. Dude. I'm just saying I've enjoyed discussing this whole issue with you. I believe there are lots of things we agree on and also disagree on.

                            All I'm trying to say about the whole "made up stats" thing was that until a team like BSU or any mid-major actually gets a chance to move into a BCS conference and we all see what they can or cannot do....we can't really know or base how we think they'll do on other things. So I suppose in that regard we're both flawed in our argument.

                            True that it's hard to gauge when you only play a team here and there every other season...

                            I'm just saying I BELIEVE my team could fair well. Now I don't know that for sure...but I'd love to see them get the opportunity.

                            I'll also be the first to say that I'm pretty certain that teams like LSU and Florida and the like would destroy Boise State.

                            I don't hate the BCS schools. I'm not a fan of the system...but yeah. I rooted hardcore for West Virginia the other day...didn't really care who won the Orange Bowl, but Kansas deserved it I think.

                            I will say though, that I think Ohio State is more over-rated than LSU...I really don't think either team deserve it but I guess if Mizzou and Kansas couldn't hold on for one stinking game then they didn't either. So. Go LSU.
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