OhNo's Week Five-ish Draft Observations

[OhNoKoolAid]

***DISCLAIMER***
If you oppose draft talk, I don’t want to see your comments posted here. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, simple as that. But for those that do enjoy year-round draft discussion (Psycho, Glacier, MUG, Jlet…) I hope this is worth your time.

Now that school is starting to kick it in gear, it makes observing games hard and posting lengthy draft prospect comments. Nonetheless, I'll try and bring my observations up-to-date including rehashing on some players discussed earlier, as well as some hot names that could potentially leave early. Again, I'll post these on this board because the draft board is still a few months away, and the college board doesn't do the draft justice. So without further ado...

Brian Iwuh LB (SS) Colorado- Let's start this off with a common name with some fans on this board. Buff fans, I think few of you realize the type of talent you have on your hands here. Washington and Dizon got the press, but Iwuh outplayed them in most facets of the game last year and the start of this season. He's probably the best 'backer Barnett has coached at Colorado, including the likes of Tufts and Sykes. Iwuh's size will limit him to safety in the NFL, but think Michael Boulware and you won't be far off. Has great size for an SS and the speed (4.6-ish) and agility to be a playmaker. Is more athletic than most current SS in the league and shows the coverage ability to be a solid starter. Reminds me of Michael Lewis, a former Buffs safety, and could be taken in the same range as him. Fits the prototype of an Eagles' safety because of his ability to blitz, cover tight ends and complement his size with solid speed. Could play 'backer in a cover two defense, but more than likely will be safety at the next level. I like this guy, and he deserves more respect. Great leadership, instincts and intelligence.

Martin Nance WR Miami, Oh- Did not play a top team in Cinci last week, but looked good in beating them. Has the size to be a playmaker on deep routs, and showed good hands and blocking skills over the middle. Don't recall seeing him before his injury, but I don't believe his speed is all the way back. May just be a 4.55 guy as it is, but his size, quickness and concentration will overcompensate for that. Looks like the best receiver in the draft, with competition and injury his only concerns. Will rise during pre-draft all-star games.

Sinorice Moss WR Miami, Fl.- Rated very highly by some groups, but is a lesser version of his brother, complete with small stature, wheels and one main football trait, the deep ball. Is not near as consistent as he should be and looks too raw at this point. Miami, in defense of Moss, has never had much of a power arm to take advantage of his speed, so maybe there is still some growing to do. Could be special, but could be just another guy with 4.3 speed and no clue.

Marcus McNeill LT Auburn- Granted the competition isn’t the best (South Carolina) but McNeill dominated the right side of SC’s defense. Still looks like the second best tackle to me. Uses his long arms to run rushers wide of the pocket, and looks light on his feet for a big guy. Still is inconsistent in space and generating push in the run game, but has all the tools to correct these flaws. Guys this big and athletic don’t come along that often. Needs work on leverage in the run game, but did show a powerful hand punch and could maul linebackers. My favorite offensive lineman in the draft, but Ferguson is the better prospect.

Chris Leak QB Florida- Why is this guy so hyped? Sure he has a fairly strong arm for his size, but at 5’11-6’0 he struggled to find guys on underneath routes and puts to much air under the ball to overcompensate. Is an overrated athlete and runner. Dozens of college QBs could rush for as many yards as Leak does in that offense. Is a decent decision maker, but isn’t the type of QB that can beat you by himself, which is what some people expect from their franchise QB. Will be a high pick based on production numbers from playing in Meyer’s offense, but his skills translate poorly to the NFL game. People should spend more time watching QBs like this and Hackney before spouting off about their greatness…

Sam Keller QB Arizona State- I’m doing this only because I was asked to do so earlier. Is more of a system QB whose offense uses a converted receiver for a “running back.” Design of offense is for Keller to make good decisions in the intermediate game. Has poor mechanics, looks like he pushes the ball, and little NFL arm strength at this time. Lack of big time arm exposed by USC over the weekend, as passes tend to hang in the air. Would be wise to stay in school and refine mechanics at this time, because he lacks the experience, arm strength and decision making to be a capable NFL QB. Overrated at the moment, but could be a good one, but right now is a system QB.

Darnell Bing SS USC- Is not the safety people thinks he is, but isn’t bad either. Is a more in the box big hitter than sideline-to-sideline player. Is not in Sean Taylor’s class as an athlete or playmaker, and is more similar to Georgia’s Davis from last year’s draft. Should still be the top natural safety taken in the draft by a team looking for a big hitter in the middle, but he isn’t the centerfielder that people advertise him being. He isn’t overrated, just "mis-valued" by casual fans as to his skill set.

DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama- Is a tremendous player in several facets of the game. Big time hitter and special teams player. Will be a weakside linebacker in the NFL. And is the best player on the league’s best defense. Plays with great intensity and sees plays develop and reacts timely. Has enough speed to cover backs and tight ends, but will only be average in this facet. Should be a first day pick and could become a top twenty weakside guy in due time. May look better surrounded by the talent on that defense than he really is.

Jami Hightower OT Texas A&M- Mammoth left tackle (6’3 360-380) that may lack the commitment to conditioning to be anything in this league. Does show remarkably quick feet to stay at tackle if he played at a good weight. Wears down during the game and gets lazy. Can dominate in the running game and does get to the second level consistently, but will lose his balance at times. Is in the next tier of tackles, but could fall way off the charts if he performs poorly at the combine or all-star games by being out of shape. Possibly could be a great LG with his size, strength and agility package.

I’ll let you chew on this for now, and will provide more later. Feel free to comment on these or any other players you feel relevant to draft discussion. No comparisons for now, but if you’d like some, please ask and I’ll try and provide some for you if I’ve seen enough of him, or are players I’ve commented on previously.

[WABronco]

Chris Leak, No kiddin...

I've watched games of his against LSU, Miami, Tennessee, and FSU, and each game Leak has been thoroughly unimpressive...He is extremely inconsistent, TIMES 10!!! Granted, those teams listed above are all pretty good, but in the NFL, parity rules the league...

[OhNoKoolAid]

I've watched games of his against LSU, Miami, Tennessee, and FSU, and each game Leak has been thoroughly unimpressive...He is extremely inconsistent, TIMES 10!!! Granted, those teams listed above are all pretty good, but in the NFL, parity rules the league...

He just doesn't exhibit the necessary characteristics of a top rated QB. I personally wouldn't draft him, but he is a mid-round type talent because of his arm and semi-athleticism. I just don't think many fans who toss his name around watch him in earnest.

[WABronco]

He just doesn't exhibit the necessary characteristics of a top rated QB. I personally wouldn't draft him, but he is a mid-round type talent because of his arm and semi-athleticism. I just don't think many fans who toss his name around watch him in earnest.

Exactly...

-OhNo, or whoever is capable of answering, is LaRon Landry a good all around safety?? How about Bernard Pollard of Purdue?

[MileHighSpirit]

Exactly...

-OhNo, or whoever is capable of answering, is LaRon Landry a good all around safety?? How about Bernard Pollard of Purdue?

I think everyone will find out that the best safety prospect for this draft is Greg Blue from Georgia. He has a 4.4 flat in the 40, perfect size (6'2" 215lb) for either safety spot, and lead the team in tackles last year over such players as Thomas Davis, David Pollack, and Odell Thurman. He is also great in man and zone coverage.

As for Landry and Pollard... Landry is definitely a great prospect. He has put up very good numbers, and he isn't even a senior yet. His frame is ideal in size and speed. Laron could definitely use a little more weight since his is under 190, but with his playmaking ability he could stay around that light and still do well at the FS spot. He is also known for making the big hit.

... Pollard is really just a tackling machine. He hasn't really proved himself in coverage, but as far as run support and tackling go he is solid. I see him as more of a 2nd day special teams standout than a legitimate starting safety at the NFL level. His speed is also suspect.

EDIT: By the way, I looove year-round draft talk! They really need to reopen the Draft Forum (hint, admins )

[rcsodak]

Dusty Dvoracek, DT from Oklahoma. He'd be a nice pickup, prolly 2nd round/early 3rd, to utilize for speed rush on the inside.
He's got a motor that won't quit, is quick, and hits like a bus.

[OhNoKoolAid]

I think everyone will find out that the best safety prospect for this draft is Greg Blue from Georgia. He has a 4.4 flat in the 40, perfect size (6'2" 215lb) for either safety spot, and lead the team in tackles last year over such players as Thomas Davis, David Pollack, and Odell Thurman. He is also great in man and zone coverage.

As for Landry and Pollard... Landry is definitely a great prospect. He has put up very good numbers, and he isn't even a senior yet. His frame is ideal in size and speed. Laron could definitely use a little more weight since his is under 190, but with his playmaking ability he could stay around that light and still do well at the FS spot. He is also known for making the big hit.

... Pollard is really just a tackling machine. He hasn't really proved himself in coverage, but as far as run support and tackling go he is solid. I see him as more of a 2nd day special teams standout than a legitimate starting safety at the NFL level. His speed is also suspect.

EDIT: By the way, I looove year-round draft talk! They really need to reopen the Draft Forum (hint, admins )

You beat me too it, I hate homework. Yes, Greg Blue is the best overall safety in this year's draft. He will be a combine monster and his production will speak for itself.

Landry is a good player on a great defense, and should be able to hold a job at the pro level. If you look at the safeties getting jobs out of college, most lack great size. Madieu Williams, Gibril Wilson, Kerry Rhodes... just to name a few prominent ones, all had good instincts, average size, and average speed. Yet, all three were fairly solid decision makers and playmakers in college, and carried those skills to the NFL. I think you are starting to see a reliance on the pure centerfielder in the NFL, with one safety primarily in the box. This is my preference as well, one deep guy, and one extra "linebacker." I think the success of these guys mentioned will help Landry's chances of seeing time early. The best defender on that LSU defense is Claude Wroten, who is a bit undersized but is a physical, quick active playmaking DT that will be a priority for teams that run a one gap upfield scheme.

I haven't watched Pollard too much, but have heard some good things about him, and looks like a mid-round pick with upside. Excellent size for a SS and could fit in a scheme that promotes shallow zone coverages with their SS.

I think your best coverage safeties are current cornerbacks that should be tried at that premium position first. Michael Huff of Texas is an excellent sized corner with experience at safety, and is a bonafide playmaker. Will likely be a first round pick at corner, but could be a safety if needed. He is great in man to man and has excellent ball skills. He's a true corner in my opinion. Jimmy Williams of VT has better size (6'2) and did a number on Calvin Johnson of GT, but played more of a zone coverage on him than straight up man. Has safety experience as well and could be a playmaker at the position too. another corner first guy though. Jason Allen of Tennessee actually entered the draft last season as a safety, but returned to school to play corner to help his draft status. More of a centerfielder because he isn't the best hitter, but has good man skills and ball skills. Great size and is NFL ready. I still like all three at corner first, and wouldn't draft them to play safety right away.

The best route for safety at the moment is late first day-early second, being that these average sized instinctive guys are seeing the field early with decent success. A guy I saw over the weekend and liked was Roman Harper of Alabama, another 6, 190 sized safety with average speed, but is a good hitter and reads run well. Needs work in coverage but has had success and been productive. Plays in the box wonderfully and can make big plays in the run game and on blitzes. Will need some work in zone, but has the instincts to eventually be a playmaker at the position. Another mid-round guy that has upside and could start in this league.

[OhNoKoolAid]

Dusty Dvoracek, DT from Oklahoma. He'd be a nice pickup, prolly 2nd round/early 3rd, to utilize for speed rush on the inside.
He's got a motor that won't quit, is quick, and hits like a bus.

At this point, he is a mid-round guy. You are right about his non-stop motor and quickness, but his speed doesn't stand out on the field. He seems like a limited athlete and cannot split double teams. Too Chris Hovan-ish to be thought of as a higher pick at the moment. Watch his play in the UCLA game and was unimpressed. The motor will get him drafted, but he has too many question marks to go higher than the third.

By the way, all of that talk about him outplaying Tommie Harris in Harris' last year was hogwash. Harris now anchors the best budding young defense, one missing an offense to let them shine. I'm not saying you said anything in that regard, just pointing out that it was ludicrous.

[jletourneau]

Thanks for you input and work Ohno, a good read.

I'm always up for draft talk, though, sometimes just good draft reading too.

Bill Williamson of the Denver Post has hinted in a couple of his columns he feels the Broncos are looking broadly at going after a WR and an OL in round 1 next year. Ugh! If they did that, I think they'd be half right.

Love an o-line pick in the first, but I just don't like this year's WR's enough to think about one in the 1st round. If it were me, I'd stick with what many of us are saying and go d-line and o-line.

As far as WR, it really depends on our cap room. But it appears that if we let Lepsis go, depending on what we do with Brown and Warren, we will at least be in better cap shape than last year. A dream scenario of course, dream, would be to throw as much money as possible at Reggie Wayne, and pull him from the Colts who need to save money for Freeney, and Wayne, well, from all I can tell he will settle no longer to be a #2 to Marvin. I'm sure he'll end up somewhere else, because I don't believe our cap situation will be that good. But it's always worth a phone call. Otherwise, I'd still look at WR in FA and take a look at David Givens who still just under a one year tender I believe and eligible for unrestiricted FA next year. If Denver truly wants to upgrade their WR's by the end of the year, I just don't think a 1st round pick is worth it in this year's draft.

Perhaps a later pick for the likes of someone in the realm of Jason Avant. But all in all, I'm just not sold yet on this year's crop at all. Here's to a 1st round spent in the trenches, I sure hope Bill Williamson isn't speaking on and inside merit.

[OhNoKoolAid]

Thanks for you input and work Ohno, a good read.

I'm always up for draft talk, though, sometimes just good draft reading too.

Bill Williamson of the Denver Post has hinted in a couple of his columns he feels the Broncos are looking broadly at going after a WR and an OL in round 1 next year. Ugh! If they did that, I think they'd be half right.

Love an o-line pick in the first, but I just don't like this year's WR's enough to think about one in the 1st round. If it were me, I'd stick with what many of us are saying and go d-line and o-line.

As far as WR, it really depends on our cap room. But it appears that if we let Lepsis go, depending on what we do with Brown and Warren, we will at least be in better cap shape than last year. A dream scenario of course, dream, would be to throw as much money as possible at Reggie Wayne, and pull him from the Colts who need to save money for Freeney, and Wayne, well, from all I can tell he will settle no longer to be a #2 to Marvin. I'm sure he'll end up somewhere else, because I don't believe our cap situation will be that good. But it's always worth a phone call. Otherwise, I'd still look at WR in FA and take a look at David Givens who still just under a one year tender I believe and eligible for unrestiricted FA next year. If Denver truly wants to upgrade their WR's by the end of the year, I just don't think a 1st round pick is worth it in this year's draft.

Perhaps a later pick for the likes of someone in the realm of Jason Avant. But all in all, I'm just not sold yet on this year's crop at all. Here's to a 1st round spent in the trenches, I sure hope Bill Williamson isn't speaking on and inside merit.

I agree with this and as a whole am dissapointed in this year's receiver crop. I have been impressed with the play of Demetrius Williams of Oregon, but his inconsistency will keep him in the second round. I think Nance takes top billing by defaultin my book, but in last year's draft, he wouldn't be a first rounder. Avant doesn't realy do it for me and could be just a guy in the pros. I think if we have to reach, Hagan of ASU plays the intermediate routes well enough to complement Lelie, but he too has his flaws. Taking the combine monster at the position, whoever it may be this year, like Stallworth a few years ago is also a risky proposition.

I think OL is an absolute must, and DL is quite close to must as well, but I'd also monitor the running back and quarterback situation in the draft as well. If a DeAngelo Williams or Jacobs slides, I think you have to consider them in the teens. Williams isn't LT, but he's top fifteen down the road, and is the most game-ready explosive playmaker on offense in the draft. Leinart won't be available, and Whitehurst isn't a first round talent, so that puts Jacobs in the middle in my opinion. Still, with the tackles available in this draft on defense, taking the best remainding player of Wright, Watson and Ngata (if eligible) wouldn't be a bad strategy either.

[WABronco]

Yea, I thought Greg Blue was pretty darn good when I watched the Georgia vs. Boise State game...

I thought he was a soph. though...SWEET!

Pollard is a beast, but he may not do much in coverage...He's built like a MLB though, it's crazy...

[jletourneau]

I think OL is an absolute must, and DL is quite close to must as well, but I'd also monitor the running back and quarterback situation in the draft as well. If a DeAngelo Williams or Jacobs slides, I think you have to consider them in the teens. Williams isn't LT, but he's top fifteen down the road, and is the most game-ready explosive playmaker on offense in the draft. Leinart won't be available, and Whitehurst isn't a first round talent, so that puts Jacobs in the middle in my opinion. Still, with the tackles available in this draft on defense, taking the best remainding player of Wright, Watson and Ngata (if eligible) wouldn't be a bad strategy either.

Couldn't have said it better myself in this paragraph specifically. My play would be for o-line for sure, done deal, and preferably the best available pass rusher.

But, IMHO, if Kiwi, M. Williams, Ngata and Wright were all off the board and either Jacobs (who I am a big, big fan of) or DeAngelo were to fall, I agree they would both be worth a look as a steal mid roundish.

The only way I do much else from those scenarios is if somehow, the Skins were to bomb the rest of the year and land us a top 5 (won't happen) and allow us a shot at Reggie Bush (who is phenomenal). But since that won't happen, my only care is to keep Bush away from the Raiders at ALL costs. He is just the kind of player Al Davis would salivate over, hopefully he would be pushed away by all the money he just gave L. Jordan and the deep passing game (both WR's) and then spend another pick on a fast CB and take a very Raiderish Devin Hester, keep A.J. Hawk away from them as well while we're at it. As much as I like the Raiders to lose, I still hope they will win 7 or 8 games to keep them away from such players as Bush and Hawk who would be pillars for years to come for whoever drafts them.

Sorry about this, kind of off subject there, but sometimes you just get caught up in draft thoughts and your mind starts rambling about various scenarios that have crossed it.

[OhNoKoolAid]

Couldn't have said it better myself in this paragraph specifically. My play would be for o-line for sure, done deal, and preferably the best available pass rusher.

But, IMHO, if Kiwi, M. Williams, Ngata and Wright were all off the board and either Jacobs (who I am a big, big fan of) or DeAngelo were to fall, I agree they would both be worth a look as a steal mid roundish.

The only way I do much else from those scenarios is if somehow, the Skins were to bomb the rest of the year and land us a top 5 (won't happen) and allow us a shot at Reggie Bush (who is phenomenal). But since that won't happen, my only care is to keep Bush away from the Raiders at ALL costs. He is just the kind of player Al Davis would salivate over, hopefully he would be pushed away by all the money he just gave L. Jordan and the deep passing game (both WR's) and then spend another pick on a fast CB and take a very Raiderish Devin Hester, keep A.J. Hawk away from them as well while we're at it. As much as I like the Raiders to lose, I still hope they will win 7 or 8 games to keep them away from such players as Bush and Hawk who would be pillars for years to come for whoever drafts them.

Sorry about this, kind of off subject there, but sometimes you just get caught up in draft thoughts and your mind starts rambling about various scenarios that have crossed it.

I'm not as high on Hawk, but we both know he's too instinctual to play for Oakland. Plus, his 4.6 speed won't cut it in Al Davis' mind. I actually like Devin Hester, he's playing the first half of the season with turf toe, which has a direct impact on his performance in the return game. He's raw though, and may never be more than a kick returner, so I can offer him to Oakland as a sacrifice. The Raiders will be bad, but they won't be high pick bad. I think we're safe for the time being.

Back on track...I think Plummer played his best in Denver with a bonafide playmaker at tailback, ala Portis. Whle Denver's running game has been successful without him, our 'backs aren't schemed around like Portis was. With Williams, we'd have a back that can take any run the defense, while having the size to pound it away when needed as well. Put it this way, Denver has proven that any solid cutback runner can make the running game click, but a dynamic back makes this offense explosive. I still belive that good backs can be found in midle rounds, but guys like Williams don't grow on trees. If your main options are off the board, and you have a shot at him you take him with a wide mischievious grin, because you've just made your offense upgrade from efficient to dynamic.

[MileHighSpirit]

I agree with this and as a whole am dissapointed in this year's receiver crop. I have been impressed with the play of Demetrius Williams of Oregon, but his inconsistency will keep him in the second round. I think Nance takes top billing by defaultin my book, but in last year's draft, he wouldn't be a first rounder. Avant doesn't realy do it for me and could be just a guy in the pros. I think if we have to reach, Hagan of ASU plays the intermediate routes well enough to complement Lelie, but he too has his flaws. Taking the combine monster at the position, whoever it may be this year, like Stallworth a few years ago is also a risky proposition.

I think OL is an absolute must, and DL is quite close to must as well, but I'd also monitor the running back and quarterback situation in the draft as well. If a DeAngelo Williams or Jacobs slides, I think you have to consider them in the teens. Williams isn't LT, but he's top fifteen down the road, and is the most game-ready explosive playmaker on offense in the draft. Leinart won't be available, and Whitehurst isn't a first round talent, so that puts Jacobs in the middle in my opinion. Still, with the tackles available in this draft on defense, taking the best remainding player of Wright, Watson and Ngata (if eligible) wouldn't be a bad strategy either.

If we took two offensive players in the first round I wouldn't be overly angry; especially if the best 3 lineman (Ngata, Kiwanuka, & Williams) aren't left. From the games we've played this year it seems we could actually use some fresh offensive talent to get back to the domination we've had in the past. There are actually "Denver Broncos" type tackles with first round grade this year, and that alone is reason enough to look into offensive picks. D'Brickashaw Ferguson would be Rick Dennison's wet dream in our offense, and Daryn Colledge looks like a perfect fit as well.

As for receivers, you are right, there is no receiver that deserves a first round grade at this point. There are several, however, that are second round prospects with great upside. For me the two that stand out as fits in Denver would be Hank Baskett and Mike Hass.

Hank Baskett could equal instant success in the redzone for us. He has size, good speed, and a vertical that is out of this atmosphere. On top of his measurables, Hank is putting up great numbers in the MWC. He is really a complete receiver in the Larry Fitzgerald mold.

Mike Hass is just unbelievable. The guy is like Rod Smith on steroids. His stats speak for himself, and you know he will get overlooked because his measurables aren't prototypical. Most will say he can't continue his kind of production in the NFL... or can he? I have to disagree. The math doesn't lie, and Rod Smith + Wayne Chrebet = lots of receptions and yards.

The last word? I think O-line + D-line for the first round is still the best option. Greg Blue and one of the many great D-line prospects would satisfy me for the first day. My dream draft would actually be for us to trade down a little in the first round and have more day one picks. Perhaps (if Washington would actually lose like they are suppose to ) we can pick up a 2nd rounder by trading down our higher pick. Five first day picks in a loaded draft like this would be fantastic.

[jletourneau]

I'm not as high on Hawk, but we both know he's too instinctual to play for Oakland. Plus, his 4.6 speed won't cut it in Al Davis' mind. I actually like Devin Hester, he's playing the first half of the season with turf toe, which has a direct impact on his performance in the return game. He's raw though, and may never be more than a kick returner, so I can offer him to Oakland as a sacrifice. The Raiders will be bad, but they won't be high pick bad. I think we're safe for the time being.

Back on track...I think Plummer played his best in Denver with a bonafide playmaker at tailback, ala Portis. Whle Denver's running game has been successful without him, our 'backs aren't schemed around like Portis was. With Williams, we'd have a back that can take any run the defense, while having the size to pound it away when needed as well. Put it this way, Denver has proven that any solid cutback runner can make the running game click, but a dynamic back makes this offense explosive. I still belive that good backs can be found in midle rounds, but guys like Williams don't grow on trees. If your main options are off the board, and you have a shot at him you take him with a wide mischievious grin, because you've just made your offense upgrade from efficient to dynamic.

Agreed.

I always find that to be an interesting point when people talk about how any solid back can succeed in Denver, almost as if a good running game is enough and we are happy to fall back on it.

I'm with you on the Williams front. As much as we could use an offensive and defensive lineman in the 1st, we could really use an explosive playmaker of some sorts who can elevate the offense and take great focus all by his lonesome.

We tried to dig up a dynamic playmaker in Tatum, but his flashes away from consistency are frustrating when speculating the future. But if Williams were to fall, Tater could still draw some value on draft day to add a depth pick or player for that matter. Shanny has really done well as of late in that category.

Anyway, I like M.A. a lot and believe Bell still has a chance to prove himself, but if I were drafting for the Broncos and D. Williams fell to me at the 16th or so pick, I'd have a very hard time not pulling the trigger.