Brady or Moss?

[Jazzman1987]

i was thinking, is Moss kicking ass because of Brady, or is Brady kicking ass because of Moss? on one hand you have Moss who has always been a freak of nature, but seems to only preform well when there is a good qb throwing to him and the team is winning. on the other hand, you have Brady who's numbers have always been good, not stellar before Moss and Welker came. now he's murdering teams. which is it?

[Nick]

i was thinking, is Moss kicking ass because of Brady, or is Brady kicking ass because of Moss? on one hand you have Moss who has always been a freak of nature, but seems to only preform well when there is a good qb throwing to him and the team is winning. on the other hand, you have Brady who's numbers have always been good, not stellar before Moss and Welker came. now he's murdering teams. which is it?

C) None of the above

It is the offensive line, that should get most credit. Brady can litterally sit down for 30 seconds with out getting touched if he wanted to...

Look at how bad Manning looks now that they have a depleted O-Line...

[PatsCrowEater]

C) None of the above

It is the offensive line, that should get most credit. Brady can litterally sit down for 30 seconds with out getting touched if he wanted to...

Look at how bad Manning looks now that they have a depleted O-Line...

You're absolutely right. It is the O-Line. As I was reading the first post that's exactly what I was thinking too.

[silkamilkamonic]

Here's a good argument for Moss.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7472596?MSNHPHMA

No offense to Tom Brady, one of my favorite NFL players of all time, but Randy Moss is the MVP of the National Football League.

It ain't even close.

Seriously, denying Randy Moss this year's Associated Press MVP award would be borderline criminal. If Allen Iverson is the answer in basketball, Randy Moss is the question that no one in football can answer.

How do you stop him?

He can't be stopped; he can only slow himself, as he did for a couple of miserable years in Oakland.

Brady is on the brink of shattering every single-season passing record known to mankind and the Patriots are well on their way to smashing every scoring record. And we love nothing more in this country than showering superstar quarterbacks with awards, hype and credit.

But Randy Moss should not and cannot be denied this season. His impact on the football field is so obvious and so overwhelming that even Joe Buck should cast an MVP vote for Mr. Moss. The value of wide receivers has never been more evident than this season.

Randy Moss has 66 catches for a team-leading 1,052 yards and 16 touchdowns in New England's perfect start. ( / Getty Images)

Terrell Owens earned Tony Romo a $67 million contract and paved the road Philly fans will use to escort Donovan McNabb out of town. Marvin Harrison went down with a knee injury, and Peyton Manning's feet got happy again and his interception total escalated.

Look, it's still a quarterback's league. Manning and McNabb are great players. Romo is headed for greatness. But they're significantly diminished without their favorite toys.

Moss is a kingmaker. This isn't the first time he made a good offense outstanding. The scoring record the Patriots are chasing is the standard Moss' 1998 Vikings established. In that same year, Moss, a rookie at the time, turned 35-year-old Randall Cunningham into the league's top passer. Cunningham threw 34 TDs and 10 INTs and the Vikings finished the regular season 15-1.

Denny Green looked as smart as Bill Belichick.

Randy, despite 17 TDs and 1,313 receiving yards, didn't win the MVP that year because Terrell Davis took a run at Eric ****erson's single-season rushing record, cracking 2,000 yards.

Well, the excuse this year will be Brady's numbers. I'm not knocking Brady. He's an incredible player. He's just not as valuable as Randy Moss.

There's only one Randy Moss. When he shows up motivated, focused and ready to have fun, records fall, defenses quiver, quarterbacks have once-in-a-lifetime seasons and his teams win ... by lots of points.

Moss is doing more for Brady than Brady is doing for Moss. The same thing could be said about Cunningham and Jeff George, who both looked Elway-esque winging footballs to Moss.

This week George pointed out to me what makes Moss different from every receiver who has ever played the game.

"Intimidation," George explained. "Defensive backs are trained to turn and play the football. Guys are too scared to turn away from Randy. You'll see two DBs running with Randy, but they'll never turn and find the football because they're too afraid to take their eyes off Randy. As a quarterback, you just throw it up to Randy no matter the coverage because you know he'll be only guy looking for the football."

How many times have we seen that this season — two guys wrapped around Randy and Brady floating a ball into traffic?

This isn't a co-MVP situation. It's not a slap at Brady, one of the three best QBs of all time.

It's long overdue recognition for Moss. It's long overdue acknowledgement that receivers — given today's rules about defensive-back contact and the prevalence of three- and four-receiver offenses — can have as much impact on a game as quarterbacks.


Moss reminds me of Shaquille O'Neal. We took O'Neal for granted during his prime on the basketball court, and he won just one MVP award. In retrospect that's ridiculous. O'Neal's impact on the NBA far exceeds Steve Nash's, and Nash has won multiple MVP awards.

Moss isn't likely to surpass Jerry Rice as the greatest of all time. Rice was too consistent and was a driving force in the 49ers dynasty. Rice vs. Moss will be like the Bill Russell-Wilt Chamberlain debate. Except we didn't deny Wilt a few MVP trophies.

Let's no longer deny Randy Moss. Yes, he used to be extremely immature. His effort at times was atrocious. None of that matters this year. With defenses doing everything within reason to slow him, Moss has 16 TD receptions, more than 1,000 receiving yards, the Patriots are 10-0, and, most important, Moss has made Tom Brady the second-most-valuable player in football.

[aberdien]

It's the mirrors?

[BroncosTX77]

Think of the Cowboy teams in the 90's. Great O-Line Aikman could sit back heave the ball up and let Alvin Harper and Michael Irvin go up and catch the ball.
Aikman's Wes Welker was Jay Novacek.

Only difference I see between those teams and the Patriots is Cowboys had a running game and Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys were respectable and had class.....

[NinjaPirateFunk]

Think of the Cowboy teams in the 90's. Great O-Line Aikman could sit back heave the ball up and let Alvin Harper and Michael Irvin go up and catch the ball.
Aikman's Wes Welker was Jay Novacek.

Only difference I see between those teams and the Patriots is Cowboys had a running game and Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys were respectable and had class.....

exactly

the pats aren't comparable to many teams throughout history, and not in a good way. they're just classless. many teams could've ran up the score. but didn't.

[silkamilkamonic]

The Patriots are going at a pace where they could be the greatest team of all time.

They are already tinkering at the edge of biggest margin of victory, and regardless of having class or not, there is not another team that has dominated like the Pats have this year.

I personally don't think you can compare the Cowboys with the Patiots. They had a better running game with Smith, but Pats have the edge in QB and WR. Dallas had Novacek, but Watson is hardly a slouch.

I think the Pats would beat those Cowboys teams by 2+ TD's.

[Corndog]

Brady put up numbers with scrubs. If he didn't have Moss, Stallworth would have had his best season ever.Brady is the key. How has Moss did with crapola QB'S?

[Ravage!!!]

The Patriots are going at a pace where they could be the greatest team of all time.

They are already tinkering at the edge of biggest margin of victory, and regardless of having class or not, there is not another team that has dominated like the Pats have this year.

I personally don't think you can compare the Cowboys with the Patiots. They had a better running game with Smith, but Pats have the edge in QB and WR. Dallas had Novacek, but Watson is hardly a slouch.

I think the Pats would beat those Cowboys teams by 2+ TD's.

I do n't think so. The offense of those Cowboy teams was certainly as good as the Colts this year.. and they very easily could have beaten the Patriots this season. The difference so far is, that other than the Colts, no other team has pressured them on defense.

So I disagree with this.. but.. its only opinion and speculation anyway.

[Ravage!!!]

As far as the original question... thats hard to answer because I think if you took either one out of the game, their team is completely different. If you take Moss out, they aren't the juggernaut... if you take out Brady, they aren't contenders at all.

But its not a coincidence that the Vikings set the season scoring record when Moss was there with Culpepper and Cunningham, and now the Patriots are going to blow that away with Moss again.

So its not the offensive line. The offensive line is always a factor, but lets be real and give credit where credit is due.

[Ravage!!!]

Brady put up numbers with scrubs. If he didn't have Moss, Stallworth would have had his best season ever.Brady is the key. How has Moss did with crapola QB'S?

Well. I promise you this... Stallworth wouldn't do crap. The patriots would always be contenders with Brady in the lineup, but their team wouldn't be NEAR as tough without Moss.

[DancingHorsey]

exactly

the pats aren't comparable to many teams throughout history, and not in a good way. they're just classless. many teams could've ran up the score. but didn't.

This mirrors my own thoughts. Many teams have been roughly as dominant throughout the years, but those teams didn't go out of their way to keep putting up as many points as they could.

I mean just look at the '98 Broncos. We would often come out and score 21 points in the first three possessions, and then we would switch into running mode and eat up the clock. We averaged over 30 points a game without even trying, and dominated all of our opponents in the playoffs.

This Patriots team is not what people think they are, and I really doubt they'll go undefeated. In fact, I really doubt that they will even win the Super Bowl. Something about this team reminds me of another team that was dominant until it really mattered: the '98 Vikings. Mark my words, when playoff football begins it'll all come crashing down.

[BaileyTheBest]

C) None of the above

It is the offensive line, that should get most credit. Brady can litterally sit down for 30 seconds with out getting touched if he wanted to...

Look at how bad Manning looks now that they have a depleted O-Line...

Exactly what I was going to say. As much time as Brady has in the pocket, any average WR could get open.

[assassin216]

This mirrors my own thoughts. Many teams have been roughly as dominant throughout the years, but those teams didn't go out of their way to keep putting up as many points as they could.

I mean just look at the '98 Broncos. We would often come out and score 21 points in the first three possessions, and then we would switch into running mode and eat up the clock. We averaged over 30 points a game without even trying, and dominated all of our opponents in the playoffs.

This Patriots team is not what people think they are, and I really doubt they'll go undefeated. In fact, I really doubt that they will even win the Super Bowl. Something about this team reminds me of another team that was dominant until it really mattered: the '98 Vikings. Mark my words, when playoff football begins it'll all come crashing down.

the reason why the vikings did horrible when they played falcons cuz of their defense.....new england's defense is 10 times better than the vikings that year...not sayin the patriots will go undefeated but u can compared those two teams cuz new england actually have a defense ...ill go far to say that vikings offense will get shut down by this years new england defense......