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  • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
    Orton wasn't then nor is he now a top-ten NFL QB.
    You're quibbling.

    Depending on which stat sets and ratings one looks at, yeah, he was top ten. In qb rating he was #15 out of 32+. In yards he was 10th. In TDs he was 17th. In INTs he was 8th.


    Whichever stat set one chooses to use is going to change outcomes, naturally. However, I've heard many analysts refer to him as a top 10 QB this season, and regardless of whether someone wants to quibble over the exact number he did a good job on a pretty damned bad team.


    He's a good quarterback. Snark over the details all you want, but he's a good quarterback.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Alastor View Post
      You're quibbling.

      Depending on which stat sets and ratings one looks at, yeah, he was top ten. In qb rating he was #15 out of 32+. In yards he was 10th. In TDs he was 17th. In INTs he was 8th.


      Whichever stat set one chooses to use is going to change outcomes, naturally. However, I've heard many analysts refer to him as a top 10 QB this season, and regardless of whether someone wants to quibble over the exact number he did a good job on a pretty damned bad team.


      He's a good quarterback. Snark over the details all you want, but he's a good quarterback.
      17th and 15th point to rankings more along the middle of the pack. Regardless, I'm not talking about individual stats as much as the complete package. Orton's a solid QB, but he's not the high-quality player that you're trying to imply with your "top-10" qualification. We would have no trouble getting at least a first-round pick if he were truly a top-10 guy.

      Regardless, the rest of my post still stands. Would you trade Aaron Rodgers coming off his 2009 season?
      Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by PowderAddict View Post


        All the Bears fans in my office HATE Cutler

        One of them even said "At least the third stringer played allright".

        Even Alfred Williams said he'd rather have Tebow than Cutler after the NFC Championship game, and he hates Tebow.

        Denver could have done much better with the compensation, but to get 2 firsts and a third for that clown was robbery. They still may get more if/when they trade Orton.
        If we get another 2nd rounder, say it was this year (with a settled CBA) and we pick up one of those good young players, and there are many (especially on dline) not to mention it's likely that someone will fall into our laps for at least one of our 2nd round picks.......I say we did quite all right.....

        ....plus we don't have to watch a guy moan and pout on the sidelines, or at the very least, say nothing.

        Comment


        • I may be wrong in my observations........but I hardly ever see some posters here anymore, other than to stick up for Jay, criticize McDaniels, and even take some shots at Bowlen.

          I've also made the observation that most of us, no matter what side we were on re: those issues, have agreed to move forward (not to say I won't engage in the Cutler fiasco now and again). Seriously, many of us are posting about today and tomorrow, whereas some seem limited in talking about the past.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
            I may be wrong in my observations........but I hardly ever see some posters here anymore, other than to stick up for Jay, criticize McDaniels, and even take some shots at Bowlen.

            I've also made the observation that most of us, no matter what side we were on re: those issues, have agreed to move forward (not to say I won't engage in the Cutler fiasco now and again). Seriously, many of us are posting about today and tomorrow, whereas some seem limited in talking about the past.
            I largely agree with your sentiment and am trying my best to move on. Fortunately- the firing of McDaniels seems to be something we've ALL been able to rally around and some much needed healing in Bronco fandom seems to be finally taking place.

            That said- the past will very much become the present and future IF Cutler emerges as a true franchise QB in the next several seasons. I know it's only a minority of us out there that still think that's likely- but I think folks who think he's permanently anchored down at his 2009 and 2010 level of performance (when he was learning 2 different offenses and had a porous offensive line) are being dangerously naive.

            If Cutler reaches his potential and cements himself as a Top 5 franchise QB (as Brady and Manning get long in the tooth)- Ayers, Thomas, Quinn and Orton (or whatever we get for him) will provide little comfort. Some of those guys may in fact be servicable players- but let's face it none of them as of now seems ticketed for the Pro Bowl and Thomas in particular can't even stay on the field. That's a franchise crippling blow if it comes to pass and we better believe the whole Cutler topic will be revived BIG TIME.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by thatkidhunt View Post
              Once they actually put some weapons around Cutler the Bears are going to be a friggin scary ass team to face, especially if that D and Special Teams stays the same......
              Yep.........first get Jay the OL protection he needs then a go to wr, and see how quickly this offense improves.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bears6385 View Post
                Yep.........first get Jay the OL protection he needs then a go to wr, and see how quickly this offense improves.
                I would venture a guess that even without any personnel improvements, more time in the system alone will improve your offense. Look at the improvement from Cutler from 2007 to 2008. I thought you guys did great considering you were in year 1 of arguably the most complex offense in the league. As long as you don't change offensive schemes again, you'll be much improved in years 2 and 3.
                Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                  I would venture a guess that even without any personnel improvements, more time in the system alone will improve your offense. Look at the improvement from Cutler from 2007 to 2008. I thought you guys did great considering you were in year 1 of arguably the most complex offense in the league. As long as you don't change offensive schemes again, you'll be much improved in years 2 and 3.
                  Agreed.

                  That said... get OL and WR help.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Southern Bronco View Post
                    I largely agree with your sentiment and am trying my best to move on. Fortunately- the firing of McDaniels seems to be something we've ALL been able to rally around and some much needed healing in Bronco fandom seems to be finally taking place.

                    That said- the past will very much become the present and future IF Cutler emerges as a true franchise QB in the next several seasons. I know it's only a minority of us out there that still think that's likely- but I think folks who think he's permanently anchored down at his 2009 and 2010 level of performance (when he was learning 2 different offenses and had a porous offensive line) are being dangerously naive.

                    If Cutler reaches his potential and cements himself as a Top 5 franchise QB (as Brady and Manning get long in the tooth)- Ayers, Thomas, Quinn and Orton (or whatever we get for him) will provide little comfort. Some of those guys may in fact be servicable players- but let's face it none of them as of now seems ticketed for the Pro Bowl and Thomas in particular can't even stay on the field. That's a franchise crippling blow if it comes to pass and we better believe the whole Cutler topic will be revived BIG TIME.
                    Fine.....but here's my view:

                    Cutler is good. He's not a true leader in my books, I am not too fond of him, and he's gone. For those who can't get over the trade, too bad. Life is too short to keep looking back. And I am also sure that a lot of those folks who keep talking about Jay like he's a god of some kind, are not talking about Tebow, because of who drafted him. I say, too bad. I don't look at things that way. I love our players, no matter who drafted them.

                    Sooooo....if folks can't get over McDaniels.....why not move on? Are you vindictive, hoping every one of Josh's picks screws up, or gets let go. I believe some think that way.

                    For most of us it's all about the Orange and Blue, no matter who they are, who drafted them, and so on.

                    And as I have stated numerous times.....it isn't healthy continually lamenting "what was" and "what could have been".

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                      Fine.....but here's my view:

                      Cutler is good. He's not a true leader in my books, I am not too fond of him, and he's gone. For those who can't get over the trade, too bad. Life is too short to keep looking back. And I am also sure that a lot of those folks who keep talking about Jay like he's a god of some kind, are not talking about Tebow, because of who drafted him. I say, too bad. I don't look at things that way. I love our players, no matter who drafted them.

                      Sooooo....if folks can't get over McDaniels.....why not move on? Are you vindictive, hoping every one of Josh's picks screws up, or gets let go. I believe some think that way.

                      For most of us it's all about the Orange and Blue, no matter who they are, who drafted them, and so on.

                      And as I have stated numerous times.....it isn't healthy continually lamenting "what was" and "what could have been".
                      It's not healthy to hold resentment to the players who leave either... which happens plenty more often.

                      I think most of us who don't hate Cutler are still Broncos fans.

                      I'm rooting for Tebow harder than Cutler. I promise.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                        It's not healthy to hold resentment to the players who leave either... which happens plenty more often.

                        I think most of us who don't hate Cutler are still Broncos fans.

                        I'm rooting for Tebow harder than Cutler. I promise.
                        Personally, it's not all about resentment. I just don't care for the guy. That's not resentment. Maybe I should refrain from responding, but that's my liberty I believe. I can't help responding to those who bring this up every chance they get.

                        And though this may be perceived as unfair, he didn't do himself many favours in the NFC Final. Few athletes have been challenged by so many of their peers and ex players. Not because of the "injury" question......but just because of his demeanour. And regardless of how much he may have been helping his mates, that never came across with all those players, etc. Naturally his guys are going to support him.

                        Whatever....he played poorly in that game while he was "healthy".

                        Bottom line LT......there are some members here who only show up to talk about Jay (and how good he is).....and hardly ever participate in the going forward Broncos. That ticks me. I supported Josh for a long time, but gradually changed my mind. Hanging on is not always wise.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LordTrychon View Post
                          Agreed.

                          That said... get OL and WR help.

                          Of course they should

                          Especially the OL and especially at left tackle. The few games I saw them play it looked like a lot of the sacks Cutler took came from the left side. He was able to avoid the pressure from his right, but it's hard to avoid pressure that you don't see coming. It boggles my mind that they're not giving Chris Williams (someone we were almost as high on in these boards as Clady) enough time at LT.
                          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                            Of course they should

                            Especially the OL and especially at left tackle. The few games I saw them play it looked like a lot of the sacks Cutler took came from the left side. He was able to avoid the pressure from his right, but it's hard to avoid pressure that you don't see coming. It boggles my mind that they're not giving Chris Williams (someone we were almost as high on in these boards as Clady) enough time at LT.
                            Last year after Williams came back from a hamstring injury it was decided by Martz and Tice to get the Bears five best OLinemen onto the field. Unfortunately Omiyale was one of those five, and the only position he can play is LT, he was horrible when given a chance at LG and RT, and not all that much better at LT. Williams will start on the left side in 2011, we just don't know if it will be LG or LT.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                              You're quibbling.

                              Depending on which stat sets and ratings one looks at, yeah, he was top ten. In qb rating he was #15 out of 32+. In yards he was 10th. In TDs he was 17th. In INTs he was 8th.


                              Whichever stat set one chooses to use is going to change outcomes, naturally. However, I've heard many analysts refer to him as a top 10 QB this season, and regardless of whether someone wants to quibble over the exact number he did a good job on a pretty damned bad team.


                              He's a good quarterback. Snark over the details all you want, but he's a good quarterback.
                              Orton lost his job to a rookie QB with bad mechanics. Orton is not a top 10 QB and never will be. He's a top 10 BACKUP QB though...maybe that's what you meant.

                              Comment

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