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  • End to the Manning/Brady debate?

    A few years ago, without Tom Brady, the Patriots went 11-5. This year, without Manning, the Colts are 0-2 already and look like they might end up with a top-5 pick.

    Given the relative accomplishments of their supporting casts, is there debate any more about who the best QB of this generation is?
    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

  • #2
    Originally posted by AC1 View Post
    A few years ago, without Tom Brady, the Patriots went 11-5. This year, without Manning, the Colts are 0-2 already and look like they might end up with a top-5 pick.

    Given the relative accomplishments of their supporting casts, is there debate any more about who the best QB of this generation is?
    I'd take Brady.
    Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

    ^^^Get used to it.^^^

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AC1 View Post
      A few years ago, without Tom Brady, the Patriots went 11-5. This year, without Manning, the Colts are 0-2 already and look like they might end up with a top-5 pick.

      Given the relative accomplishments of their supporting casts, is there debate any more about who the best QB of this generation is?
      Not with me there isn't ...

      I'll take Peyton Manning ... However Brady is certainly HOF as well and I would still take Elway over both them ...

      What I don't want to see in this thread is

      Anything make believing that McD had something to do with Brady's success outside of knowing how to flim ...

      The Broncos record vs the Patriots is pretty stout however vs the Colts ...
      Last edited by LarryDean; 09-20-2011, 11:33 AM.
      :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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      • #4
        Pure straight up QB. Manning I would agree is better.

        But, if I am running a team I think I would take Brady. As a leader I think he elevates and leads a team and gets more out of the surrounding the cast.

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        • #5
          I don't know if this really solves it. The Colts are centered around Manning, so when he leaves they fall. The Pats however, are centered around a system, where players are easily replaceable.

          Plus it seems like most of Indy's players just don't care without their leader Manning, like Dallas w/o Romo last year

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          • #6
            Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
            I don't know if this really solves it. The Colts are centered around Manning, so when he leaves they fall. The Pats however, are centered around a system, where players are easily replaceable.

            Plus it seems like most of Indy's players just don't care without their leader Manning, like Dallas w/o Romo last year
            Quality post right there. Look at the Colts defense. This is a defense that is designed to get after the quarterback and defend passing. Coyer has had the luxury of playing with the lead for years. Now his defense is being asked to do a lot more. Their smaller personnel have always struggled stopping the run. The only time they won the SB, the defense stepped up and carried them through the playoffs. I don't think they are good enough to carry them now, given how bad Collins is.

            The Pats are like communists. No man is bigger than the team schematically, and Belliache is all about defense. Though Brady has always been dependable, NE's defense practically carried them during their SB runs.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AC1 View Post
              A few years ago, without Tom Brady, the Patriots went 11-5. This year, without Manning, the Colts are 0-2 already and look like they might end up with a top-5 pick.

              Given the relative accomplishments of their supporting casts, is there debate any more about who the best QB of this generation is?
              Your right, brady is obviously better AND plays for a better team.

              Comment


              • #8
                The fact that IND is failing right now doesn't necessarily make me think a great deal more of Manning (it would be hard to do so, anyway) but rather I think a great deal less of how IND have gone about building their team and supporting cast. Personally, I still like Brady better.
                sigpic
                - ★ -
                2012 Adopt a Bronco : Joe Mays

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LarryDean View Post
                  Not with me there isn't ...

                  I'll take Peyton Manning ... However Brady is certainly HOF as well and I would still take Elway over both them ...

                  What I don't want to see in this thread is

                  Anything make believing that McD had something to do with Brady's success outside of knowing how to flim ...

                  The Broncos record vs the Patriots is pretty stout however vs the Colts ...
                  Good point aobut McDaniels. Can't believe we heard the whole "he coached up Brady" nonsense in 2009.

                  And our record, especially under Shanahan was really good against Brady and the Pats. This is with Griese and Plummer. Imagine if Shanahan had the equivalent of Brady or Manning as his QB. That's something I think about everytime someone calls Belichick the best coach in the league.
                  Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Remedy View Post
                    Pure straight up QB. Manning I would agree is better.

                    But, if I am running a team I think I would take Brady. As a leader I think he elevates and leads a team and gets more out of the surrounding the cast.
                    I don't know about that. A lot of it is Belichick. Their 2008 record without Brady was a game or two behind their average wins per season with Brady.

                    Brady is without a doubt better than everyone else (including Brees). Him and Manning are in a separate zone with many all-time greats. I've gone back and forth on the debate, but so far this season we're seeing what Manning worked with.
                    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
                      I don't know if this really solves it. The Colts are centered around Manning, so when he leaves they fall. The Pats however, are centered around a system, where players are easily replaceable.

                      Plus it seems like most of Indy's players just don't care without their leader Manning, like Dallas w/o Romo last year
                      Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                      Quality post right there. Look at the Colts defense. This is a defense that is designed to get after the quarterback and defend passing. Coyer has had the luxury of playing with the lead for years. Now his defense is being asked to do a lot more. Their smaller personnel have always struggled stopping the run. The only time they won the SB, the defense stepped up and carried them through the playoffs. I don't think they are good enough to carry them now, given how bad Collins is.

                      The Pats are like communists. No man is bigger than the team schematically, and Belliache is all about defense. Though Brady has always been dependable, NE's defense practically carried them during their SB runs.
                      Can't disagree much with either post. The Pats' offense is highly reliant on Brady too, though I suppose not to the extent that Indy's offense relies on Manning.

                      I ask myself what the results would be if we switched Brady and Manning.
                      Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sSync View Post
                        The fact that IND is failing right now doesn't necessarily make me think a great deal more of Manning (it would be hard to do so, anyway) but rather I think a great deal less of how IND have gone about building their team and supporting cast. Personally, I still like Brady better.
                        That's a very good point. However, doesn't the quality of the supporting cast inform the relative performances of the two QBs?
                        Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                          That's a very good point. However, doesn't the quality of the supporting cast inform the relative performances of the two QBs?
                          Thats true, and Indiana also hasnt done as much as the patriots. I agree the colts dont have the cast that the patriots have, and they havent won the championships that the patriots have. Brady cant help that he plays on a better team. Now if they had the same exact results with these two teams, your argument would make sense, but as it is, the colts have won less with worse team. There is no basis for an argument.

                          I think one of Manning's biggest faults (and he doesnt have many) is the power he has taken and wants. He is not an offensive coord. It has bitten them in several situations, the most recent in that playoff game against the jets where he chose to keep passing with a minute left rather than run out the clock. It should have been game over. They gave the ball back and lost the game. Brady calls audibles as a good QB should do, but he doesnt presume to be the playcaller. He is the QB. And he is dang good at it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                            A few years ago, without Tom Brady, the Patriots went 11-5. This year, without Manning, the Colts are 0-2 already and look like they might end up with a top-5 pick.

                            Given the relative accomplishments of their supporting casts, is there debate any more about who the best QB of this generation is?
                            I don't think this has anything to do with the QBs.

                            This is all about the Patriots Front Office VS the Colts Front Office.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                              I don't know about that. A lot of it is Belichick. Their 2008 record without Brady was a game or two behind their average wins per season with Brady.

                              Brady is without a doubt better than everyone else (including Brees). Him and Manning are in a separate zone with many all-time greats. I've gone back and forth on the debate, but so far this season we're seeing what Manning worked with.
                              I don't know, One could argue that Tom was on the sidelines the whole year and just as much part of the leadership despite his injury. leadership aside I mean it is not a tangible thing. I think Manning the way he runs that offense audibles throws the ball. I would say he is a better quarterback. Doesn't mean I would take him to build my team around.

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