Christian Ponder the new experts Favorite

[HurricaneDovs]

I don't think it's necessarily bashing Ponder. The argument, IMO, is that there are other QBs, particularly young ones, whose stats look just as bad as Tebow's did but we're not constantly hearing hos those guys are never going to make it in the NFL.

It's the media's double-standard that is being questioned, not Ponder's play.

And yes, you might argue that the competition faced by Ponder yesterday was better than what Tebow faced (I'd respond that while GB's offense is amazing, their pass defense is actually pretty bad and Miami has a surprisingly tough defense), but the point is that their stat lines aren't all that different (I'd argue that Tebow's is actually better), PLUS Tebow got the most important stat--the W.

The bottom line is that Tebow is now 2-2 as a starter in the NFL. He's 1-0 this season. He's a young guy whop we all knew would need a lot of work to become a great NFL player. He's not there yet. But young QBs always look bad at times, and Tebow doesn't seem to be getting the "grace period" that other young guys are getting.

Thats exactly it. Ponder had his crappy team in the game the whole time against the defending champions. And no matter how bad GB's pass D may be they are the defending champs and thats what will stand out.

Tebow played poorly for 3.95 quarters and was trailing by 15 to probably the worst team in the league with 2:44 to go before pulling out a crazy comeback.

Differences: Vikings were in it the whole game against defending champs. Denver was in it the last 2:44 against a winless Miami team.

THAT is why Ponder is getting alot of attention.

[broncolee]

Quarterbacks that look and play like they can be legitimate quarterbacks are going to get some praise while Tebow is going to get a lot of criticism.

When Tebow starts playing like legitimate NFL starting quarterback, he'll get some praise.

Not everyone is down on him though. Ditka isn't down on him. He isn't anointing him the second coming of Elway but he's not down on him. There are some others that think Tebow has a shot but they all understand that he has to improve on a lot of things in order to become a legitimate quarterback in the NFL.

[gods6monkeys]

Here's the point IMO, Tebow is the worst passing QB ever, but these guys are not?

ponder 13/32 with 2ints 40% - Tebow plays like this, and he's trash, but Ponder played "Great, and showed Promise" Green Bay has the 31st ranked pass Defense this year BTW.

Whitehurst 12/30 1 int 40% - Did you here anything about this poor outing?

Stafford 15/32 47%, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

Cassell 15/30 50% 2ints, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

Rivers 16/32 50% 2ints, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

McCoy 20/35 178yards, 1 int 5 sacks, and led his team to 6 total points, and the win - He gets a pass for what reason? He won?

If Tebow has any game like like any of these guys put up, he is bashed from one end of the country to the other side. Never mind Tebow also gives you about 65 yards rushing a game. In 4 starts Tebow is 2-2. If everyone would just shutup and give him the same chance everyone above gets.. this was only his 4th start...

[GatorNation4Lyf]

BTW - the Vikings receivers had huge separation on defenders.

I glanced at some other QBs across the league

C. Whitehurst 12/30 97 3.2 0 1 35.0
C. McCoy 20/35 178 5.1 0 1 59.0
M. Stafford 15/32 183 5.7 1 0 75.4
M. Ryan 20/34 218 6.4 1 2 63.1
M. Hasselbeck 14/30 104 3.5 1 2 38.8
P. Rivers 16/32 179 5.6 1 2 51.4
M. Moore 22/33 197 6.0 1 0 92.6

T. Tebow 13/27 161 6.0 2 0 91.7

[GatorNation4Lyf]

Thats exactly it. Ponder had his crappy team in the game the whole time against the defending champions. And no matter how bad GB's pass D may be they are the defending champs and thats what will stand out.

Tebow played poorly for 3.95 quarters and was trailing by 15 to probably the worst team in the league with 2:44 to go before pulling out a crazy comeback.

Differences: Vikings were in it the whole game against defending champs. Denver was in it the last 2:44 against a winless Miami team.

THAT is why Ponder is getting alot of attention.

Did you watch the Minn/GB game??? You listen to the experts too much. Ponder did do well in his first start but the ONLY reason they were in that game was...

Rushing: A. Peterson (MIN) - 24 CAR, 175 YDS, 1 TD

Ponder made several good plays that hit but couldn't get it done when it counted. I'm a Ponder believer. I can't wait to see him play again BUT stop the double standards.

[dizzolve]

Now I love Ponder, thought he was a great pickup in the first round and I think he will be an awesome QB in the league...

BUT how is it that every expert is so high on him after 1 game while Tebow is still a question mark in their minds? Listening to most of them, you would have thought that he threw for 400 yards and 5 TDs. Here's his numbers from Sunday...

Because all the detractors have already decided on Tebow, even though Tebow is only now beginning to have his shot

[Incomplete84]

Tebow is going to be criticized more because even though other rookies may have bad stats similar or worse than his, they look the part of what the media has for a QB. No one can sit here and say they truly feel that Tebow played well in the first 3.5 quarters. He look bad, he should have thrown the ball at time and should have hit open receivers. He tries to stay in the pocket and that is obvious...it is honestly bad because you can tell he is thinking about staying there versus feeling being there. Once he gathers himself and just plays, the real Tim Tebow shows up.

They need to take a look at what Carolina does for Cam. A offense that suits the QB. Dont tell him not to run because him forcing himself to stand tall in the pocket eliminates potential plays he could make with his feet when nothing is there. For better or worse I want to see him finish the season out and from that point make a decision to either stay or move forward. Even though yesterday was probably the best come back I have ever seen from a team, it still leaves a lot to be desired from a potential QB.

[mtn_horn]

Here's the point IMO, Tebow is the worst passing QB ever, but these guys are not?

ponder 13/32 with 2ints 40% - Tebow plays like this, and he's trash, but Ponder played "Great, and showed Promise" Green Bay has the 31st ranked pass Defense this year BTW.

Whitehurst 12/30 1 int 40% - Did you here anything about this poor outing?

Stafford 15/32 47%, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

Cassell 15/30 50% 2ints, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

Rivers 16/32 50% 2ints, He gets a pass for not completing 60%

McCoy 20/35 178yards, 1 int 5 sacks, and led his team to 6 total points, and the win - He gets a pass for what reason? He won?

If Tebow has any game like like any of these guys put up, he is bashed from one end of the country to the other side. Never mind Tebow also gives you about 65 yards rushing a game. In 4 starts Tebow is 2-2. If everyone would just shutup and give him the same chance everyone above gets.. this was only his 4th start...

All I ever hear is it isn't about stats with Tebow. "He just wins" "He has all the intangibles" etc...

So it seems a bit disingenuous to then use stats to "prove" he had a better day than those other quarterbacks.

Look, he stunk up the joint for 3.5 quarters. It wasn't just his stats - it's how he looked. It's the wide open receivers he missed by several yards. It's the indecision. It's holding the ball too long. It's the first pass that by all accounts should have been a pick 6.

I'm not a hater - but if the first 3.5 quarters against Miami don't make you just a little bit concerned going against arguably the best D-line in the NFL next week, I'll take some of what you're smoking.

Christian Ponder passed the "eye test." And it was his first game in the NFL.

As far as getting the "same chance" everyone else gets, I'm pretty sure he is - he is the starting QB for a team that is not very good. Just like Ponder, just like McCoy.

I wish that our fanbase could let go of this seeming need to feel our favorite players are persecuted. Timmy is getting to play - we'll get to see what he can do. Why not sit back, enjoy the ride, and ignore the talking heads?

[#87Birdman]

Tebow is going to be criticized more because even though other rookies may have bad stats similar or worse than his, they look the part of what the media has for a QB. No one can sit here and say they truly feel that Tebow played well in the first 3.5 quarters. He look bad, he should have thrown the ball at time and should have hit open receivers. He tries to stay in the pocket and that is obvious...it is honestly bad because you can tell he is thinking about staying there versus feeling being there. Once he gathers himself and just plays, the real Tim Tebow shows up.

They need to take a look at what Carolina does for Cam. A offense that suits the QB. Dont tell him not to run because him forcing himself to stand tall in the pocket eliminates potential plays he could make with his feet when nothing is there. For better or worse I want to see him finish the season out and from that point make a decision to either stay or move forward. Even though yesterday was probably the best come back I have ever seen from a team, it still leaves a lot to be desired from a potential QB.

The only problem I see with shaping an offense to the QB (like the panthers did with Cam) is that the run game really struggles for awhile. The panthers have 2 really good backs and its taken them a while to settle into the offense which leaves it all on the QB to do. I do believe we should mix some more spread plays in, but I say we still keep close to 50% if not more under center. We had 180 yards on the ground against one of the better Run D's in the league. The biggest problem I see is that Tebow is overthinking and trying his hardest to avoid a turnover. He doesn't want to hurt his team so he is second guessing himself. Tebow just needs to settle down, and I think with some slight adjustments he will be fine.

The reason for the love on ponder and Dalton and Cam is because they don't rake up as many hits if they bash them, but bashing tebow gets them lots of hits, so its just a for the media to get viewers and things thats all.

[garzjoe]

Easy. Tebow is not the typical QB. Ponder is. Tebow needs an offense built just for him to be successful, Ponder doesn't. And then you look at decision making, being able to stay in the pocket and make plays, mechanics, and accuracy. Ponder, Newton, and Dalton amongst others are years ahead of Tebow.

Agree...however while being a more prototypical QB Ponder is actually very athletic (more more than I ever thought because I did not follow the kid in college).

As you said as far as being able to stay in the pocket and make plays Ponder, Newton, & Dalton do appear to be ahead of Tebow. The surprise to all has been how Newton has looked as a QB. I pegged him as being another Tebow like QB who would struggle mightily in the passing game.

Thx,
Joe

[GatorNation4Lyf]

Tebow is going to be criticized more because even though other rookies may have bad stats similar or worse than his, they look the part of what the media has for a QB. No one can sit here and say they truly feel that Tebow played well in the first 3.5 quarters. He look bad, he should have thrown the ball at time and should have hit open receivers. He tries to stay in the pocket and that is obvious...it is honestly bad because you can tell he is thinking about staying there versus feeling being there. Once he gathers himself and just plays, the real Tim Tebow shows up.

They need to take a look at what Carolina does for Cam. A offense that suits the QB. Dont tell him not to run because him forcing himself to stand tall in the pocket eliminates potential plays he could make with his feet when nothing is there. For better or worse I want to see him finish the season out and from that point make a decision to either stay or move forward. Even though yesterday was probably the best come back I have ever seen from a team, it still leaves a lot to be desired from a potential QB.

Great post...

But imagine if you were picked apart, bit by bit by everyone around you including your coaches. Even to the point that you have to change the way you throw the ball? Tebow's been scrutinized by his own franchise. It's a wonder that he can go out there and perform under such high pressure. Plus, he's never been given the green light. He's never been the guy. Even now, he's still trying out for a job.

I think it was a mistake to try and change his mechanics in the first place. I think he did it because everyone around him told him to and he's a team guy but I think it's set him back as well.

I look at Cam (who I love) and Tebow is the same QB. I don't know why most people don't see it but they are very similar. Anyone that thinks Cam is a more accurate a passer as Tebow don't really know the two. They both can get inaccurate at times but both have a winners mindset that can overcome adversity. Denver needs to copy Carolina's playbook.

[shawinkerpoppin]

I didnt get to watch the game and if you go by just stats it wasnt impressive. But his first start of the season is against the undefeated Superbowl champs it appears he kept his team in it for the most part with help from AP. Many thought it would be a blowout but it wasnt.

[broncofanatik]

Both are basically rookies (one is actual rookie) and everyone has double standards. I watched his two ints (Ponder) and they were horrible right into GB guys hands who didn't even move. Not saying he won't improve he has upside and is def. better than McNabb.

Why talk about Ponders upside and then talk about Tebow as a 5 year vet who is at the top of his skill level? It makes no sense.

Lastly the Dolphins pass defense is better than GBs. Sure they have the #1 offense but their defense is lack there of. Just because the Dolphins are 0-6 (mainly because of their QB situation) doesn't mean they are #32 in defense. C'mon man.

[gods6monkeys]

All I ever hear is it isn't about stats with Tebow. "He just wins" "He has all the intangibles" etc...

So it seems a bit disingenuous to then use stats to "prove" he had a better day than those other quarterbacks.

Look, he stunk up the joint for 3.5 quarters. It wasn't just his stats - it's how he looked. It's the wide open receivers he missed by several yards. It's the indecision. It's holding the ball too long. It's the first pass that by all accounts should have been a pick 6.

I'm not a hater - but if the first 3.5 quarters against Miami don't make you just a little bit concerned going against arguably the best D-line in the NFL next week, I'll take some of what you're smoking.

Christian Ponder passed the "eye test." And it was his first game in the NFL.

As far as getting the "same chance" everyone else gets, I'm pretty sure he is - he is the starting QB for a team that is not very good. Just like Ponder, just like McCoy.

I wish that our fanbase could let go of this seeming need to feel our favorite players are persecuted. Timmy is getting to play - we'll get to see what he can do. Why not sit back, enjoy the ride, and ignore the talking heads?

Wow, way to address things I did not post about.
- Proved nothing about Tebow in regards to stats
- I never said Tebow had better stats, he actually had the same type as those guys listed
- I never said Tebow didn't look bad yesterday

If Ponder passed the eye test against GB passing for 40%, and 2 ints.. What test did tebow pass against SD two weeks ago with his 40% and 2tds?

The point "again" each of those QB's listed had what the media hammers Tebow for type of games. It is what it is.. some of us just find it ridiculous. I feel in 6 weeks we will a real idea of what Tebow is about in the NFL... either way.

[GatorNation4Lyf]

What is the eye test? Throwing a pretty spiral even if it's an interception? Being able to stand in the pocket? What if you don't have a pocket because your line is getting beat like a runaway slave?

I thought Ponder did very well as I was watching him. He looked very good in his first start BUT then I looked at his stats and it was shocking because it was actually poor. Maybe our eyes have been coerced by the media in what looks good and what looks bad.