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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    John Elway carried his team to 3 Super Bowls without a single star playing next to him. Yes I agree that he needed more talent to win the Super Bowl but he willed his team to those Super Bowls by himself on offense.
    John Elways did have talent around him. He had Sammy Winder and Steve Sewell, a first round draft selection. He had Rulon Jones, he had Karl Mecklenburg, Louis Wright, Dennis Smith, all of which were pro-bowlers. He had a talented defense and offense around him. Was it as "great" an offense as he had before he retired? Absolutely not. But, it still was a talented team. The Browns team is worse than the Chargers team when they drafted Ryan Leaf.

    The Browsn CANNOT draft a quarterback. The team has no talent whatsoever. The "talented" players on the Browns can be counted on a single hand, and not even a full hand at that. There is Joe Thomas, Haden, and that's it. Nobody else has played well. Sure, they have a lot of rookies like Sheard and Taylor and Little. But, they haven't done ANYTHING to warrant attention. Little drops passes left and right, the team lead the LEAGUE in dropped passes. Drafting a quarterback into a situation where there is no running back, where the offensive line is ragtag, and where the recievers lead the entire league in dropped passes is no place to send a quarterback. I don't care how "talented" that quarterback may or may not be - that is asking for a disaster.

    Dan Marino was the same. He had more comeback victories than any other QB in NFL history. The guy knew how to win games. He didnt have a defense or running game. Its not Marino's fault that the coaching staff didnt provide him with a good defense or running game but Marino could win game by himself.
    Marino couldn't win games by himself. He never once won a Super Bowl and that is the "measure" that all teams are measured by. He may have broken records because of his pass and pass often offenses, but that only got him so far. Still, though, Marino went to a team that had wide reciever talent that allowed him to break all those passing records. The Browns are not the Dolphins of the 80s and 90s.

    Tom Brady had no talent on OFFENSE. Troy Brown, David Givens & Deion Branch are equal to the 2 amigo's that Elway had to work with in the 80's and early 90's. Brady's first year as a starter WON THE SUPER BOWL!
    Who was his head coach? A coach considered by many to be the greatest coach in the current era. The Browns have the "Shurmurnator". The Browns are not the Patriots under Bellichick. The Browns are the bottom of the barrel and have NOTHING - absolutely NOTHING.

    Yet you refuse to answer my question of..."do you believe or have you seen anything from Colt McCoy that makes you think he can lead the Browns to a Super Bowl or become a true "franchise" QB?"
    Yea, I have. He was the starting quarterback last year when the Browns beat the Patriots and Saints. He also was the starting quarterback for every single one of the Browns victories this year. Sure, not a lot of wins. But, what do you expect, he can't do it all!

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    RB is your first priority?
    I don't have them listed in any particular order. Just a list of all the needs the team has.

    With how much you've said you hated the WR's, and with the system Shurmur has, I thought that would be it.
    WR, RB either would be a great selection at #4. Trent Richardson is supposedly the top RB - so if he is there then definately take him unless a good reciever is there. It's pretty clear that one of the top recievers will probably be selected by the Rams leaving the Browns as the odd one out.

    Also, if Griffin makes it to the 4th overall pick, I think it would be smart of the Browns to trade down, and get more picks. Probably a team like the Redskins or Dolphins would do it.
    Maybe trade down, maybe not. It would be stupid for the team to trade down and lose the chance of selecting a top reciever or running back. That kind of talent in a position of need is hard to pass up. If the Browns are at #4 and Trent Richardson or Blackmon or whomever the top reciever is, is there, and they do not have character issues the team should definately take them.

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  • AllEyezOnZach27
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    John Elway never won a Super Bowl untill he had a surrounding cast.

    He did not win untill he had Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, an all star offensive line, and Ed McCaffrey.

    Dan Marino NEVER won. Why? He never had the surrounding cast. The Dolphins decided that "Dan Marino" made everyone better so there was no need for a ground game. Well, that certainly came back to haunt them, didn't it?

    Then, Tom Brady? He very much had the talent around him. You would be here singing the praises of Drew Bledsoe, except that Bledsoe suffered a serious injury and Brady stepped up. Tom Brady, by your own admission is not a franchise quarterback. He wasn't a first round draft pick - he was a SIXTH round pick. You are going off about McCoy not being a franchise QB because he was a THIRD round selection. But you are more than happy to sing the praises of Tom Brady who was a SIXTH round selection.
    John Elway carried his team to 3 Super Bowls without a single star playing next to him. Yes I agree that he needed more talent to win the Super Bowl but he willed his team to those Super Bowls by himself on offense.

    Dan Marino was the same. He had more comeback victories than any other QB in NFL history. The guy knew how to win games. He didnt have a defense or running game. Its not Marino's fault that the coaching staff didnt provide him with a good defense or running game but Marino could win game by himself.

    Tom Brady had no talent on OFFENSE. Troy Brown, David Givens & Deion Branch are equal to the 2 amigo's that Elway had to work with in the 80's and early 90's. Brady's first year as a starter WON THE SUPER BOWL!

    I never once said that because Brady was a 6th round pick that he wasnt a franchise QB. Brady PROVED in games that he could will his team to victory without a superstar cast on offense.

    Yet you refuse to answer my question of..."do you believe or have you seen anything from Colt McCoy that makes you think he can lead the Browns to a Super Bowl or become a true "franchise" QB?"

    You dont have to have an elite supporting cast to show that you can become a "franchise" QB.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanBoy
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    I don't follow college football like I do the NFL.

    But, troublemakers do catch my attention. So, definately none of them (Burflict or whatever his name is an absolute NO)

    The Browns needs are:

    1. RB
    2. WR
    3. OG (LG and RG)
    4. RT
    5. DE (opposite Sheard)
    6. CB (opposite Haden)
    7. OLB (to replace aged Fujita)
    8. Safety (to replace Adams)

    Those pretty much are the basid team needs. Then there is depth at most positions that is yet another desperate need.

    First round, if any of those are selected and the player is not a troublemaker I will be pleased. The second round I really want to see Chase Minnifield selected to play opposite Haden.

    I think the LB's name is Zach Brown. He sounds pretty good and would be a nice selection with the selection from the Falcons.
    RB is your first priority? With how much you've said you hated the WR's, and with the system Shurmur has, I thought that would be it. I would probably take Justin Blackmon over Trent Richardson if I were the Browns. Yes, RB is a need too, but, IMO, WR's a bigger one. There's some other good backs in this draft class too (Lamar Miller, Chris Polk, LaMichael James), that I would select in the second round.

    Also, if Griffin makes it to the 4th overall pick, I think it would be smart of the Browns to trade down, and get more picks. Probably a team like the Redskins or Dolphins would do it.

    And yes, his name is Zach Brown. IMO, he's a very good cover linebacker, and tackles well. He'd be a good addition.
    Last edited by BroncoFanBoy; 01-19-2012, 10:45 PM.

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    Kinda sounds like you do like McCoy... But yes, I agree. QB's don't win big games without a great supporting cast.

    I'll be SHOCKED if the Browns don't draft a WR, or something on offense with their first round pick. I'll also be shocked if Justin Blackmon is available, and the Browns pass on him.

    Speaking of which, what specific players do you want the Browns to draft?
    I don't follow college football like I do the NFL.

    But, troublemakers do catch my attention. So, definately none of them (Burflict or whatever his name is an absolute NO)

    The Browns needs are:

    1. RB
    2. WR
    3. OG (LG and RG)
    4. RT
    5. DE (opposite Sheard)
    6. CB (opposite Haden)
    7. OLB (to replace aged Fujita)
    8. Safety (to replace Adams)

    Those pretty much are the basid team needs. Then there is depth at most positions that is yet another desperate need.

    First round, if any of those are selected and the player is not a troublemaker I will be pleased. The second round I really want to see Chase Minnifield selected to play opposite Haden.

    I think the LB's name is Zach Brown. He sounds pretty good and would be a nice selection with the selection from the Falcons.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanBoy
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    John Elway never won a Super Bowl untill he had a surrounding cast.

    He did not win untill he had Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, an all star offensive line, and Ed McCaffrey.

    Dan Marino NEVER won. Why? He never had the surrounding cast. The Dolphins decided that "Dan Marino" made everyone better so there was no need for a ground game. Well, that certainly came back to haunt them, didn't it?

    Then, Tom Brady? He very much had the talent around him. You would be here singing the praises of Drew Bledsoe, except that Bledsoe suffered a serious injury and Brady stepped up. Tom Brady, by your own admission is not a franchise quarterback. He wasn't a first round draft pick - he was a SIXTH round pick. You are going off about McCoy not being a franchise QB because he was a THIRD round selection. But you are more than happy to sing the praises of Tom Brady who was a SIXTH round selection.
    Kinda sounds like you do like McCoy... But yes, I agree. QB's don't win big games without a great supporting cast.

    I'll be SHOCKED if the Browns don't draft a WR, or something on offense with their 4th overall pick. I'll also be shocked if Justin Blackmon is available, and the Browns pass on him.

    Speaking of which, what specific players do you want the Browns to draft?
    Last edited by BroncoFanBoy; 01-19-2012, 10:29 PM.

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    Just curious Charlie but do you believe or have you seen anything from Colt McCoy that makes you think he can lead the Browns to a Super Bowl or become a true "franchise" QB?

    I honestly just dont see it out of him. If a QB doesnt have the talent around him, he can still will his team to victory ala John Elway & Dan Marino in 80's and Tom Brady in the 00's.
    John Elway never won a Super Bowl untill he had a surrounding cast.

    He did not win untill he had Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, an all star offensive line, and Ed McCaffrey.

    Dan Marino NEVER won. Why? He never had the surrounding cast. The Dolphins decided that "Dan Marino" made everyone better so there was no need for a ground game. Well, that certainly came back to haunt them, didn't it?

    Then, Tom Brady? He very much had the talent around him. You would be here singing the praises of Drew Bledsoe, except that Bledsoe suffered a serious injury and Brady stepped up. Tom Brady, by your own admission is not a franchise quarterback. He wasn't a first round draft pick - he was a SIXTH round pick. You are going off about McCoy not being a franchise QB because he was a THIRD round selection. But you are more than happy to sing the praises of Tom Brady who was a SIXTH round selection.

    Leave a comment:


  • AllEyezOnZach27
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Yes, very much (insert profanity).

    Not only does he waste a draft pick on Horrible draft selections - both of them. But he also goes after an undersized reciever? The Browns need a big reciever, not some Five foot Ten reciever, they need a big target. That is what makes a #1 reciever, not another Josh Cribbs. The Browns already have an undersized "speedster" who can't catch, cannot run effective routes, and cannot get open. His name is Josh Cribbs. Also, I thought I would never see somebody call a "pretty good year" a year in which a player was well known for dropping passes. Are you aware that Greg Little was targeted nearly 120 times during the season? He only caught 61 of those passes. That is not a high percentage of receptions per attempt.

    Then, in his "praise" for Griffin he claims he is a "good leader" ... well Colt McCoy is a good leader too. So, if the Browns need a "leader" why not stay with Colt McCoy? Matt Flynn would be just as bad as going after Griffin. Flynn would cost MORE money than Griffin and he has only shown success in Green Bay's system. It would be Kevin Kolb all over again. Arizona signed him to a HUGE contract because of how well he did in Philadelphia, well just look at what all that money brought to Arizona - he was outplayed by a much later draft selection. That will be Matt Flynn. Just another Kevin Kolb, who thinks he should get a Manning-like contract simply because he played well in Green Bay.
    Just curious Charlie but do you believe or have you seen anything from Colt McCoy that makes you think he can lead the Browns to a Super Bowl or become a true "franchise" QB?

    I honestly just dont see it out of him. If a QB doesnt have the talent around him, he can still will his team to victory ala John Elway & Dan Marino in 80's and Tom Brady in the 00's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by AZOmae View Post
    That (insert profanity here) Mel Kiper had his first mock draft posted today.

    For the Browns he has at #4:

    Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
    If a team moves ahead of the Browns for Griffin, they also could be in play for Blackmon, or even the guy I have at No. 5, Trent Richardson. However, the questions on Colt McCoy's ceiling as a starting NFL quarterback are getting louder, and if the Browns don't go after a solution such as Matt Flynn, a quarterback certainly could be in play here. Griffin made big strides this past season, particularly with his deep accuracy. He is a big-time athlete at the quarterback position but has developed a very good pocket presence and the ability to read the game, and his big arm comes with a nice touch on intermediate throws. He is a leader and has intangibles that should really impress evaluators during the draft process
    .

    then at #22 (from Atlanta)

    Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
    Quietly, Wright had a season that almost matched Blackmon's in the Big 12. The Browns might not end up with Griffin with the No. 4 pick, but his teammate would make a lot of sense here. Greg Little is a developing big target and had a pretty good rookie season given the overall performance of the Cleveland offense. Wright is smaller at about 5-10, 190 pounds, but could add a speed threat this offense really needs. He can beat teams over the top with straight-line speed but also works underneath and will do a lot of damage after the catch. The Browns need weapons, and Wright, who also has great hands, fits the profile.
    Yes, very much (insert profanity).

    Not only does he waste a draft pick on Horrible draft selections - both of them. But he also goes after an undersized reciever? The Browns need a big reciever, not some Five foot Ten reciever, they need a big target. That is what makes a #1 reciever, not another Josh Cribbs. The Browns already have an undersized "speedster" who can't catch, cannot run effective routes, and cannot get open. His name is Josh Cribbs. Also, I thought I would never see somebody call a "pretty good year" a year in which a player was well known for dropping passes. Are you aware that Greg Little was targeted nearly 120 times during the season? He only caught 61 of those passes. That is not a high percentage of receptions per attempt.

    Then, in his "praise" for Griffin he claims he is a "good leader" ... well Colt McCoy is a good leader too. So, if the Browns need a "leader" why not stay with Colt McCoy? Matt Flynn would be just as bad as going after Griffin. Flynn would cost MORE money than Griffin and he has only shown success in Green Bay's system. It would be Kevin Kolb all over again. Arizona signed him to a HUGE contract because of how well he did in Philadelphia, well just look at what all that money brought to Arizona - he was outplayed by a much later draft selection. That will be Matt Flynn. Just another Kevin Kolb, who thinks he should get a Manning-like contract simply because he played well in Green Bay.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 01-18-2012, 11:23 AM.

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  • AZOmae
    replied
    That (insert profanity here) Mel Kiper had his first mock draft posted today.

    For the Browns he has at #4:

    Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
    If a team moves ahead of the Browns for Griffin, they also could be in play for Blackmon, or even the guy I have at No. 5, Trent Richardson. However, the questions on Colt McCoy's ceiling as a starting NFL quarterback are getting louder, and if the Browns don't go after a solution such as Matt Flynn, a quarterback certainly could be in play here. Griffin made big strides this past season, particularly with his deep accuracy. He is a big-time athlete at the quarterback position but has developed a very good pocket presence and the ability to read the game, and his big arm comes with a nice touch on intermediate throws. He is a leader and has intangibles that should really impress evaluators during the draft process
    .

    then at #22 (from Atlanta)

    Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
    Quietly, Wright had a season that almost matched Blackmon's in the Big 12. The Browns might not end up with Griffin with the No. 4 pick, but his teammate would make a lot of sense here. Greg Little is a developing big target and had a pretty good rookie season given the overall performance of the Cleveland offense. Wright is smaller at about 5-10, 190 pounds, but could add a speed threat this offense really needs. He can beat teams over the top with straight-line speed but also works underneath and will do a lot of damage after the catch. The Browns need weapons, and Wright, who also has great hands, fits the profile.



    Just an FYI.

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    So Deion Branch, David Givens & Troy Brown made Tom Brady the QB he is today then? Also you are speculating on things you have no clue if they could have been true or not. The fact that Peyton Manning had Moore doesnt mean he wouldnt have still had a great career with another OC. Manning has made every WR/TE he ever played with look a lot better than they really are. Harrison and Wayne are good WR's but who ever would have thought Collie, Garcon, Stokely & Tamme would ever become what they are now? Great QB's make the players around them better!
    Young QB's are developed. How are they developed? Through talented coaching and talented players around them. One can be the most talented QB in NFL history, but all that talent is wasted if that talent is not allowed the opportunity to be fomented in the NFL. How do you do that in the NFL? You get talented running backs, talented wide recievers, and talented offensive linemen to take the pressure off of those young QB's.

    Question, how many starting Pro Bowl caliber QB's in the NFL have been drafted in the 3rd round or lower?
    Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick, and he is the QB to which all QB's in the current NFL are measured.

    Has McCoy ever shown you anything that makes you think he can become a franchise/elite QB in the league? The guy threw for 300+ yards only once this year and the Browns still got killed. He beat JAC, IND, MIA & SEA this season. In each of those victories he was average at best. He is too short, doesnt have much zip on his passes at all, he makes bad decisions & is anti-clutch!
    Think of it this way, he was able to beat Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Miami and Seattle this year while having one WR to throw to (a WR that would be a #2 reciever on any other NFL team but because of the lack of talent is the Browns #1 option) and virtually no running game.

    So you believe that you should go load up on weapons for a guy that has yet to EVER show that he can become a above average QB in this league? This is the NFL we are talking about here! You cant have an average QB and think you are going to win the Super Bowl.
    McCoy has shown that he can beat the above teams with no help from his offense. McCoy has been a leader in the locker room and the players like him. He has shown time and time again that he will get back up after being sacked, he will get back up after being hit, and he wants to play. He received a concussion, he went back into the game woozy with it and “not all there”, and he could have died if he was hit again. This is the NFL and you can have an “average” QB and win the Super Bowl. Just ask Trent Dilfer, just ask Brad Johnson.
    Look at the Broncos for example. Demarius Thomas, Eric Decker & Eddie Royal were our top three WR's for the season. Each one of them had MAJOR issues catching the ball this year. That doesnt make them bad players. Drops can be fixed but talent cant. Greg Little has a massive amount of talent. The kid was a rookie that had zero time to work with his QB in the off season. Instead of giving him a little bit of a pass you would rather give up on him and try for another ROOKIE WR who could have the same issues as Little. I agree that you do need talent on the offensive side of the ball but the most important position in the NFL right now is QB. If you dont have a great QB you might as well just give up forever.
    Decker, Royal, and Thomas would start on the Browns because of their lack of talent. Any one of them would immediately relegate most of the Browns receivers to backup duty, or would lead to them being removed from the team. Little has shown that he is not a #1 receiver in the NFL. He is a solid #2 at best. He is not up to par with the other #1 WR’s in the league. I never said he should be cut from the team. I said that he is a #2 and not a #1. Imagine the Broncos if they decided that with their current recievers that Thomas was enough and that they didn’t need to draft any other receivers to help Tim Tebow.
    Lastly, talent doesnt have to be drafted. You have plenty of players that have talent and just arent performing up to their potential. Now whether that is because of the coach, QB or something else is up for debate, but there is talent on the team. I dont really care if you have been watching the Browns your whole life, my best friend has been watching the Browns his whole life as well and he believes that RGIII is the best option for the Browns to become a successful team for the next 10+ years. If you want to see your Browns at the bottom of the division for a while then by all means keep McCoy and watch him flame out after a couple seasons and keep the Browns as a laughing stock of the NFL.
    If a team expects to succeed in the NFL they must draft talent. Relying on the refuse of other teams is no way to have success. Relying on the trash cast aside from other teams is no way to succeed in the NFL. If you cannot foment young talent on your team, you may as well just give up. The “over-the-hill” gang was a complete failure because they were all aged players and they didn’t last. The Browns are completely devoid of talent, that is what happens when every other year the team rebuilds. The Browns brought in some talented players and had talent last year. But, the front office decided it was time to rebuild once again and that talent left. Now, they have started over yet again from scratch. Instead of building on what Crennel and Mangini built, Holmgren and Shurmur destroyed it. Now the team is back to square one. The team has no depth and many of the starters wouldn’t even be considered starting material on other teams.
    You friend is an extreme optimist. The team is in complete disarray and is the worst Browns team to see the field since Palmer was the head coach (his teams went 2-14 and 3-13).

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  • theMileHighGuy
    replied
    I would take Mike Adams over what we got in a heart-beat. He would do great with Dennis Allen.

    Leave a comment:


  • AllEyezOnZach27
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Yes, those are your :2cents:

    Colt McCoy's #1 target last year was Watson, a tight end, his second leading player was Peyton Hillis, a running back. This year, his #1 target was Greg Little, who had a severe case of dropped passes. In fact, the Browns lead the entire LEAGUE in dropped passes this season. So, from that stat you should get that the QB was getting the ball to the players, they were simply not talented enough to make the catch. Last year, the team literally had NOBODY for McCoy to throw to. This year, they got A reciever who on any team would be a viable #2 option, but by no means is a #1 reciever.

    So, McCoy really DOESN'T HAVE THE TALENT AROUND HIM. I've watched the team since I was a little kid, so trust me. He doesn't have the talent around him. The Browns have no problem with "getting excited". These are not the Bengals who had several blackouts during a 9-7 season. Getting excited and "filling the stands" is not an issue. McCoy does not "always get hurt". McCoy suffered a single concussion that was well covered in the media and from that concussion he missed several games. Last year, he didn't start the season because the team wanted it to be his "redshirt" year, but injuries to Delhomme and Seneca Wallace forced their hand. This year, was his first full season starting for the team and he started every game untill his concussion.

    You are acting like the Browns are in a situation where they have tons of average players that could look really good if they drafted a quarterback. Unlike most teams in the NFL who have decent depth at many positions, the Browns don't have depth anywhere. They are the bottom of the barrell in terms of talent around the quarterback. Many players (especially on offense) that leave the Browns go on to have journeyman careers floating around the league as depth players, if even that. Aside from Little (who as stated above had a severe problem with dropped passes) the team has NOBODY to throw to. Earlier somebody mentioned Cribbs, but Cribbs is not a viable candidate. Cribbs is not Hester. Many people around the NFL that do not follow the Browns think that he is this great option in the passing game, he isn't. He is below average at catching the ball and his route running is horrible. He doesn't get open.

    The only times that Cribbs has had success is returning kicks (which is almost obsolete now with the new kickoff rule) and from the Wildcat Formation (which under Mangini was essentially trick plays). Shurmur hates the Wildcat and so that has been eliminated. Instead, he tried to make Cribbs into a reciever. Because of this coupled with the kickoff change, Cribbs was horrible on special teams. This year, Cribbs did have his best season as a reciever. But, it wasn't good. This year, he caught like 40 passes for 500 yards and 4 touchdowns. That's it. That is his offensive output for the entire season.

    There are no "ifs" on in dealing with Griffin going to the Browns. He will NOT be a franchise QB because the team is horrible. What the team needs to do is add these weapons that allows their offense to compete with other teams in the NFL. Right now, the team is starting players that wouldn't even make the final roster on other teams. Because of the Browns serious lack of talent at the reciever position, Cribbs and his 38 passes were second on the team for a reciever. Also, just a fair reminder, this is a pass-oriented offense. This isn't like your team where your offense focused on the run. This is Shurmur's offense which focuses on throwing.

    Now, to answer your question about Manning. Marvin Harrison made Peyton Manning. Football is a team sport, if you have no talented players around a quarterback nor any offensive geniuses on your team (to bring about the best in all your players) then your season is done before it even began. Had Manning not had Moore (offensive coordinator) nor Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glenn, or any of the numerous talented tight ends (Dilger, etc...) he would not be where he is today.

    Instead, he would be like his father. A talented player who tried his best to carry a team, but without surrounding talent he could only go so far. His father understood what it meant to be forced to try and carry a team. That is why when the Chargers selected his other son, Eli, he wanted none of it. He told his son that if the Chargers drafted him, that he would never play a down for that team. Because he saw how the Chargers were (at the time) bottom feeders in the NFL. That is what the Browns are and have been since returning to the league. You know, as well as I know, that Cleveland has the reputation of being the place where QB's go to "DIE".

    Another example of something similiar to Eli Manning is John Elway. He knew that the Colts (at the time) were a horrible team and he stated that he would rather go and have a career in baseball over playing for the Colts. You know how that ended. Instead of going to the Colts, he went to an up-and-coming team and had a very good career.
    So Deion Branch, David Givens & Troy Brown made Tom Brady the QB he is today then? Also you are speculating on things you have no clue if they could have been true or not. The fact that Peyton Manning had Moore doesnt mean he wouldnt have still had a great career with another OC. Manning has made every WR/TE he ever played with look a lot better than they really are. Harrison and Wayne are good WR's but who ever would have thought Collie, Garcon, Stokely & Tamme would ever become what they are now? Great QB's make the players around them better!

    Question, how many starting Pro Bowl caliber QB's in the NFL have been drafted in the 3rd round or lower?

    Has McCoy ever shown you anything that makes you think he can become a franchise/elite QB in the league? The guy threw for 300+ yards only once this year and the Browns still got killed. He beat JAC, IND, MIA & SEA this season. In each of those victories he was average at best. He is too short, doesnt have much zip on his passes at all, he makes bad decisions & is anti-clutch!

    So you believe that you should go load up on weapons for a guy that has yet to EVER show that he can become a above average QB in this league? This is the NFL we are talking about here! You cant have an average QB and think you are going to win the Super Bowl.

    Look at the Broncos for example. Demarius Thomas, Eric Decker & Eddie Royal were our top three WR's for the season. Each one of them had MAJOR issues catching the ball this year. That doesnt make them bad players. Drops can be fixed but talent cant. Greg Little has a massive amount of talent. The kid was a rookie that had zero time to work with his QB in the off season. Instead of giving him a little bit of a pass you would rather give up on him and try for another ROOKIE WR who could have the same issues as Little. I agree that you do need talent on the offensive side of the ball but the most important position in the NFL right now is QB. If you dont have a great QB you might as well just give up forever.

    Lastly, talent doesnt have to be drafted. You have plenty of players that have talent and just arent performing up to their potential. Now whether that is because of the coach, QB or something else is up for debate, but there is talent on the team. I dont really care if you have been watching the Browns your whole life, my best friend has been watching the Browns his whole life as well and he believes that RGIII is the best option for the Browns to become a successful team for the next 10+ years. If you want to see your Browns at the bottom of the division for a while then by all means keep McCoy and watch him flame out after a couple seasons and keep the Browns as a laughing stock of the NFL.

    Again just my :2cents:

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by AllEyezOnZach27 View Post
    Have you ever seen Colt McCoy carry his team to victory? Dont give me the "he doesnt have weapons" excuse. He has shown me no reason what-so-ever that he is ever going to become a franchise QB. If you have a chance to draft a "franchise" QB then you HAVE to do it if you want to compete in the NFL.

    RGIII gives the Browns something to be excited about. He has a very good arm, can move VERY well, has a short release & can create plays on his own if things break down. Name one player on CLE that actually makes you want to watch them...

    Say they take Blackmon with their 1st RD pick and McCoy gets hurt (like always) and then they have no one to throw the ball to him. If RGIII turns out to be a "franchise" QB then he will make average WR's & TE's look a lot better than they really are.

    Did Marvin Harrison make Peyton Manning or was it the other way around?

    Just my :2cents:
    Yes, those are your :2cents:

    Colt McCoy's #1 target last year was Watson, a tight end, his second leading player was Peyton Hillis, a running back. This year, his #1 target was Greg Little, who had a severe case of dropped passes. In fact, the Browns lead the entire LEAGUE in dropped passes this season. So, from that stat you should get that the QB was getting the ball to the players, they were simply not talented enough to make the catch. Last year, the team literally had NOBODY for McCoy to throw to. This year, they got A reciever who on any team would be a viable #2 option, but by no means is a #1 reciever.

    So, McCoy really DOESN'T HAVE THE TALENT AROUND HIM. I've watched the team since I was a little kid, so trust me. He doesn't have the talent around him. The Browns have no problem with "getting excited". These are not the Bengals who had several blackouts during a 9-7 season. Getting excited and "filling the stands" is not an issue. McCoy does not "always get hurt". McCoy suffered a single concussion that was well covered in the media and from that concussion he missed several games. Last year, he didn't start the season because the team wanted it to be his "redshirt" year, but injuries to Delhomme and Seneca Wallace forced their hand. This year, was his first full season starting for the team and he started every game untill his concussion.

    You are acting like the Browns are in a situation where they have tons of average players that could look really good if they drafted a quarterback. Unlike most teams in the NFL who have decent depth at many positions, the Browns don't have depth anywhere. They are the bottom of the barrell in terms of talent around the quarterback. Many players (especially on offense) that leave the Browns go on to have journeyman careers floating around the league as depth players, if even that. Aside from Little (who as stated above had a severe problem with dropped passes) the team has NOBODY to throw to. Earlier somebody mentioned Cribbs, but Cribbs is not a viable candidate. Cribbs is not Hester. Many people around the NFL that do not follow the Browns think that he is this great option in the passing game, he isn't. He is below average at catching the ball and his route running is horrible. He doesn't get open.

    The only times that Cribbs has had success is returning kicks (which is almost obsolete now with the new kickoff rule) and from the Wildcat Formation (which under Mangini was essentially trick plays). Shurmur hates the Wildcat and so that has been eliminated. Instead, he tried to make Cribbs into a reciever. Because of this coupled with the kickoff change, Cribbs was horrible on special teams. This year, Cribbs did have his best season as a reciever. But, it wasn't good. This year, he caught like 40 passes for 500 yards and 4 touchdowns. That's it. That is his offensive output for the entire season.

    There are no "ifs" on in dealing with Griffin going to the Browns. He will NOT be a franchise QB because the team is horrible. What the team needs to do is add these weapons that allows their offense to compete with other teams in the NFL. Right now, the team is starting players that wouldn't even make the final roster on other teams. Because of the Browns serious lack of talent at the reciever position, Cribbs and his 38 passes were second on the team for a reciever. Also, just a fair reminder, this is a pass-oriented offense. This isn't like your team where your offense focused on the run. This is Shurmur's offense which focuses on throwing.

    Now, to answer your question about Manning. Marvin Harrison made Peyton Manning. Football is a team sport, if you have no talented players around a quarterback nor any offensive geniuses on your team (to bring about the best in all your players) then your season is done before it even began. Had Manning not had Moore (offensive coordinator) nor Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glenn, or any of the numerous talented tight ends (Dilger, etc...) he would not be where he is today.

    Instead, he would be like his father. A talented player who tried his best to carry a team, but without surrounding talent he could only go so far. His father understood what it meant to be forced to try and carry a team. That is why when the Chargers selected his other son, Eli, he wanted none of it. He told his son that if the Chargers drafted him, that he would never play a down for that team. Because he saw how the Chargers were (at the time) bottom feeders in the NFL. That is what the Browns are and have been since returning to the league. You know, as well as I know, that Cleveland has the reputation of being the place where QB's go to "DIE".

    Another example of something similiar to Eli Manning is John Elway. He knew that the Colts (at the time) were a horrible team and he stated that he would rather go and have a career in baseball over playing for the Colts. You know how that ended. Instead of going to the Colts, he went to an up-and-coming team and had a very good career.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 01-16-2012, 08:10 PM.

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  • AllEyezOnZach27
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    I agree with Charlie. Drafting Griffin would be a horrible decision for the Browns. He would get eaten up alive with how bad the Browns offense around him is. The Browns have 2 first round picks, including one at 4th overall. I'd start by taking Justin Blackmon. He'd be a very good target for McCoy. If there isn't any good offensive lineman at 22, I'd probably just go BPA.

    Heck, maybe McCoy will show he's really not that bad if the Browns actually get some talent around him.
    Have you ever seen Colt McCoy carry his team to victory? Dont give me the "he doesnt have weapons" excuse. He has shown me no reason what-so-ever that he is ever going to become a franchise QB. If you have a chance to draft a "franchise" QB then you HAVE to do it if you want to compete in the NFL.

    RGIII gives the Browns something to be excited about. He has a very good arm, can move VERY well, has a short release & can create plays on his own if things break down. Name one player on CLE that actually makes you want to watch them...

    Say they take Blackmon with their 1st RD pick and McCoy gets hurt (like always) and then they have no one to throw the ball to him. If RGIII turns out to be a "franchise" QB then he will make average WR's & TE's look a lot better than they really are.

    Did Marvin Harrison make Peyton Manning or was it the other way around?

    Just my :2cents:

    Leave a comment:

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