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  • #16
    Oh, I knew it would be you, Charlie.

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    2012 Adopt a Bronco : Joe Mays

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sSync View Post
      Oh, I knew it would be you, Charlie.

      You really shouldn't "roll" your eyes.

      It is the truth. I love Europe, I have no problem with Europe.

      That said, there are some things that Europe should not get just as America should not get.

      How would you feel about Manchester United relocating to Los Angeles, California?

      I highly doubt those soccer hooligans would be all too ecstatic would they? In fact, I'd expect the same reaction that happened with the Browns - probably even worse.

      So, why should the NFL open itself to the possibility of that happening? Every game played outside of the United States takes away from REAL FANS of that team from watching them in person. Do you honestly expect a regular blue collar familyman to make the trip from _______ (fill in the blank) to see his team play in London?

      No, they will not. They cannot afford it. It takes away from them - it takes a home game away from their fans. So, once again, the NFL has no business in having teams play in countries other than the United States.
      The Browns are gone; I'm not a fan of the Impostors

      The real Browns are in Baltimore, see?

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      • #18
        Sorry, the smiley was in jest. But do you really believe having one game overseas is an outrage? Not an international team, not an international post-season game, not international games plural. A single international game. Just one. For the thousands and thousands of football fans who happen to live outside the United States.

        You've created a truly special sport. This isolationist mindset you've adopted towards it is truly mind-boggling and incredibly backwards. I don't think anyone genuinely believes this should, or will, open the door to a team moving overseas permanently and I think if anyone attempted to implement the idea it would never take off (... it wouldn't even make it to the runway, the wheels would fall off in the hangar and the pilot would get run over by a forklift).

        I understand that it must suck for the home team fans who're losing a game. I sympathise, I truly do. But as I've said in previous threads on the subject, the one thing that sucks worse than losing a home game is being a diehard NFL fan living abroad. We get diddly squat. Seeing some live football being played closer to home is amazing.
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        2012 Adopt a Bronco : Joe Mays

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        • #19
          Originally posted by sSync View Post
          Sorry, the smiley was in jest. But do you really believe having one game overseas is an outrage? Not an international team, not an international post-season game, not international games plural. A single international game. Just one. For the thousands and thousands of football fans who happen to live outside the United States.
          Yes, I do consider it an outrage. One international regular season game is one international regular season game too many. Nobody really likes watching preseason games, so why not have a preseason game internationally if they "have" to have one?

          Regular season games are another thing. It takes away from that teams fans and it opens up the NFL to the possibility of international teams which also opens up the possibility of there being a team relocating to Europe. All it takes is one greedy owner to make it happen.

          [QUOTE]You've created a truly special sport. This isolationist mindset you've adopted towards it is truly mind-boggling and incredibly backwards. I don't think anyone genuinely believes this should, or will, open the door to a team moving overseas permanently and I think if anyone attempted to implement the idea it would never take off (... it wouldn't even make it to the runway, the wheels would fall off in the hangar and the pilot would get run over by a forklift).[QUOTE]

          Europe had NFL Europe, the NFL decided to end that league. Why not bring it back? I'm all for that. It was beneficial. They allowed Europe the ability to have their own "American Football". That League was beneficial to everyone. Players were able to go over there and play and get game experience - just look at Kitna and what happened to him. He became a star in the NFL. It allows those players the opportunity to make something of their careers.

          But, having actual NFL teams play overseas opens up too many issues.

          I understand that it must suck for the home team fans who're losing a game. I sympathise, I truly do. But as I've said in previous threads on the subject, the one thing that sucks worse than losing a home game is being a diehard NFL fan living abroad. We get diddly squat. Seeing some live football being played closer to home is amazing.
          That's what happens. You live overseas, it is to be expected. I live half a continent away from the NFL team that I enjoy. I will probably never see a Browns game in person due to financial reasons. So, I have to find my own ways of watching the team I like given my financial situation. Whether it is going to a "Browns Backers" bar, etc... I pretty much get diddly squat and I live in North America, in the continental United States! I probably won't be able to see a game in Cleveland .. but you never know maybe when they play Denver some year I'll make the trek. Or .. maybe one day I will be able to afford a trip to Cleveland. Though I really want to visit Europe, odds are unless I come into some $$$ that isn't happening anytime soon. So, it goes without saying that I would NOT make a trip to London to see the Browns.

          Playing games overseas opens up the NFL to a new market in which teams can relocate, and also opens teams up to less games in front of their fans in the name of $$ for the league.
          The Browns are gone; I'm not a fan of the Impostors

          The real Browns are in Baltimore, see?

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          • #20
            Charlie, You just LOVE to argue and be pessimistic lol.

            Ignoring the 'soccer hooligan' comment there are LOADS of fans in the UK who are just as hardcore as fans in the states. I don't have loads of money but have been to Denver THREE times to see them. A team giving up ONE home game is not a big deal (especially when they can't sell out at home).

            I could understand people getting upset if a franchise moved to London, but I don't think that will ever happen and like I said before its not something most people here would want.

            Regarding the NFL Europe failing - You won't attract many fans, whether its in the states or elsewhere, to watch a bunch of PS players. Although in Germany and Holland they often got over 25,000 attendances.

            Plus if the Rams get more globally recognized it creates money for the franchise and for the state of Missouri.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
              Charlie, You just LOVE to argue and be pessimistic lol.

              Ignoring the 'soccer hooligan' comment
              I'm not using "soccer hooligan" as a bad thing. Everyone is aware how people are about their soccer teams in Europe. I am using that to describe the reactions that Manchester United fans would have if they found out that their team was relocating to another continent. There would probably be riots on the streets and whomever was responsible for that would probably get death threats just like ... what happened with Cleveland's former owner.

              there are LOADS of fans in the UK who are just as hardcore as fans in the states. I don't have loads of money but have been to Denver THREE times to see them. A team giving up ONE home game is not a big deal (especially when they can't sell out at home).
              ONE home game is a big deal. That allows people who do not give a rat's behind about that team to go to a game for the sake of going to a game. Why? Because the NFL wants more $$. It is complete "bull" to use a nice word that a team has to give up a game played in front of their fans to go and make the league some money trying to sell the league to Europe, Mexico, or Canada.

              I could understand people getting upset if a franchise moved to London, but I don't think that will ever happen and like I said before its not something most people here would want.

              Regarding the NFL Europe failing - You won't attract many fans, whether its in the states or elsewhere, to watch a bunch of PS players. Although in Germany and Holland they often got over 25,000 attendances.
              Then why should the NFL entertain offers to have the NFL play in Europe if NFL Europe failed? It is all about MONEY. They are slaves to it. They want more, and more, and more. That is what makes teams relocate - the promise of lots and lots of $$. It is the same exact concept. NFL wants teams to go and play in Europe instead of in their own stadiums in front of their own fans - they are essentially selling that team out to foreigners trying to get foreigners interested in the hoped of getting their $$. It is NOT a stretch to think that this will lead to foreign owners, and the possibility of relocation beyond the United States.

              Plus if the Rams get more globally recognized it creates money for the franchise and for the state of Missouri.
              At the expense of letting their own loyal fans from viewing their games in person. One game is too much. Let it be practice squad players - not regular season games.
              The Browns are gone; I'm not a fan of the Impostors

              The real Browns are in Baltimore, see?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
                I'm not using "soccer hooligan" as a bad thing. Everyone is aware how people are about their soccer teams in Europe. I am using that to describe the reactions that Manchester United fans would have if they found out that their team was relocating to another continent. There would probably be riots on the streets and whomever was responsible for that would probably get death threats just like ... what happened with Cleveland's former owner.

                Some soccer teams had problems in the 70's, thats long gone now, and there are violent fans in any sport. Like I said, I don't agree with a team re-locating but if Man U gave up one home game in the season I doubt most of their fans would care. Although the difference is they always sell out and the Rams are having attendance problems.

                ONE home game is a big deal. That allows people who do not give a rat's behind about that team to go to a game for the sake of going to a game. Why? Because the NFL wants more $$. It is complete "bull" to use a nice word that a team has to give up a game played in front of their fans to go and make the league some money trying to sell the league to Europe, Mexico, or Canada.

                The Rams can't have that many fans when they struggle to sell home games. Wembley has sold over 80,000 tickets for ever game, even if the match-up has been poor.

                Then why should the NFL entertain offers to have the NFL play in Europe if NFL Europe failed? It is all about MONEY. They are slaves to it. They want more, and more, and more. That is what makes teams relocate - the promise of lots and lots of $$. It is the same exact concept. NFL wants teams to go and play in Europe instead of in their own stadiums in front of their own fans - they are essentially selling that team out to foreigners trying to get foreigners interested in the hoped of getting their $$. It is NOT a stretch to think that this will lead to foreign owners, and the possibility of relocation beyond the United States.

                NFL Europe failed for reasons I explained, the NFL is the 'proper game'. Haven't the Jags just got an owner born in Pakistan ? Fans here are just as passionate like I said before and the game is global, It will help the NFL generate money and interest. US Soccer players play in the Premier League where they get good money and develop to help the national team. Beckham is in the States trying to help with interest in the game and wants to build a soccer school to get kids interested, there's nothing wrong with some global support.

                At the expense of letting their own loyal fans from viewing their games in person. One game is too much. Let it be practice squad players - not regular season games.
                Own loyal fans ? Been through this many times. PS players ? lol, No one in any part of the world would bother going to see that.

                BTW - You talk about the 'proper' fans being from the states, I am only 27 and do not have much money but have been to Denver three times. You live MUCH closer to Cleveland yet said you have never seen them play there. I don't need to have my support questioned.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
                  Own loyal fans ? Been through this many times. PS players ? lol, No one in any part of the world would bother going to see that.

                  BTW - You talk about the 'proper' fans being from the states, I am only 27 and do not have much money but have been to Denver three times. You live MUCH closer to Cleveland yet said you have never seen them play there. I don't need to have my support questioned.
                  I live in Colorado. Which is, essentially, half a continent from Cleveland. By "own loyal fans" I mean fans that grew up in the area watching that team. Sure, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I firmly believe that despite not being able to afford a trip to Cleveland to watch the Browns. Despite not growing up with encouragement from my family to be a Browns fan, I feel that I am more firm in my "fandom" than other Browns fans from Ohio or Cleveland. That said, I don't want any fan of a team to be faced with the situation that they are not able to watch their team play in person - because that team went to Europe to play a game. Further, if you happen to be one of the lucky season ticket holders, what happens to you? Are you reimbursed by the NFL for that game?

                  Either way, it takes away from fans of that NFL team in the United States in favor of those in Europe that may have never even heard of that team, nor care about that team. Yet, the NFL has the "audacity" to say it is a home game? It is not fair to those that are fans of that team in the United States. Will Manchest United or Aston Villa come and play a "home" game in the United States? Highly doubtful, in fact, that's not going to happen. Americans probably would not go and see that.
                  The Browns are gone; I'm not a fan of the Impostors

                  The real Browns are in Baltimore, see?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
                    I live in Colorado. Which is, essentially, half a continent from Cleveland. By "own loyal fans" I mean fans that grew up in the area watching that team. Sure, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I firmly believe that despite not being able to afford a trip to Cleveland to watch the Browns. Despite not growing up with encouragement from my family to be a Browns fan, I feel that I am more firm in my "fandom" than other Browns fans from Ohio or Cleveland. That said, I don't want any fan of a team to be faced with the situation that they are not able to watch their team play in person - because that team went to Europe to play a game. Further, if you happen to be one of the lucky season ticket holders, what happens to you? Are you reimbursed by the NFL for that game?

                    Either way, it takes away from fans of that NFL team in the United States in favor of those in Europe that may have never even heard of that team, nor care about that team. Yet, the NFL has the "audacity" to say it is a home game? It is not fair to those that are fans of that team in the United States. Will Manchest United or Aston Villa come and play a "home" game in the United States? Highly doubtful, in fact, that's not going to happen. Americans probably would not go and see that.
                    English teams play pre-season tours there and I fully expect proper games in the US to be played by premier league teams within the next 3 years, I expect they would sell out given the crowds they get for pre-season games.

                    Wembley sells out because there are alot of fans who just love the NFL, regardless of the teams playing. If you live in Colorado you get to see Bronco games whenever you want. You might not want to but at least you have that choice.

                    The bottom line is we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think a team giving up a home game once every 20 years to let the fans in Europe see a proper game is too much to ask.

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