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  • Brandon Marshall Reaction to Bears' Loss

    You know, I was one of the many people happy to see Marshall leave given his off-the-field issues and his crazy on-field antics. That being said, he seems to have matured since then. Maybe he was telling the truth when he said he had real mental health issues.

    For one, his performance continues to skyrocket. Topping 1400 yards and breaking tackles left and right. And then at the post-game yesterday he handled himself well. Didn't call anyone out specifically, but did exactly what you expect a team leader to say - calling for accountability across the board. I don't think there's anything wrong with showing some emotion.

    Like Keyshawn and Cris Carter said on Monday Night Countdown...too bad that's not Cutler showing some leadership. I just don't think Cutler has it to carry a team to the big one, though I suppose with a healthy Bears' D you don't need an elite QB. Not only does Jay lack the "command presence" a Rodgers, Brady, Manning, or even a Tebow has, but he also continues to make bad reads and throw interceptions at inopportune times.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SinePari View Post
    You know, I was one of the many people happy to see Marshall leave given his off-the-field issues and his crazy on-field antics. That being said, he seems to have matured since then. Maybe he was telling the truth when he said he had real mental health issues.

    For one, his performance continues to skyrocket. Topping 1400 yards and breaking tackles left and right. And then at the post-game yesterday he handled himself well. Didn't call anyone out specifically, but did exactly what you expect a team leader to say - calling for accountability across the board. I don't think there's anything wrong with showing some emotion.

    Like Keyshawn and Cris Carter said on Monday Night Countdown...too bad that's not Cutler showing some leadership. I just don't think Cutler has it to carry a team to the big one, though I suppose with a healthy Bears' D you don't need an elite QB. Not only does Jay lack the "command presence" a Rodgers, Brady, Manning, or even a Tebow has, but he also continues to make bad reads and throw interceptions at inopportune times.
    Marshall has had an amazing season. Cutler on the other hand has had his most inconsistant one since he came to the Bears.

    It's real simple.........Cutler is a good QB, not a great one. Only great QB's like P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers can win on a consistant basis with lesser talent around them on both sides of the ball. For Cutler to win big time he needs everything around him. The defense to keep the game close, an OL in front of him, a good running game behind him, and a full set of receivers including a pass catching TE, much like Schaub has in Houston.

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    • #3
      Cutler, unfortunately, just has too much of a lackadaisical approach to the game. He just seems so disinterested.

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      • #4
        I personally, was sad to see both amazing talents leave when McDaniels took over. I watch the Bears games even more now that Marshall is there. I think him and cutler are both fun to watch. I wasn't happy to see Cutler go, nor was happy with the seasons inbetween... but love having Peyton, and the team we have now.
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        • #5
          I was against the Cutler trade but the problems with the Bears starts and ends with him. He simply does not have the emotional maturity to be a premiere NFL quarterback. When things go south, his attitude goes south with it and you can't inspire your teammates acting that way. If Cutler was our quarterback when we were down 24-0 in San Diego, that's a 48-3 blowout loss. That's what separates Cutler from guys like Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. And if he isn't there by now, I don't foresee him ever getting there.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by bears6385 View Post
            Marshall has had an amazing season. Cutler on the other hand has had his most inconsistant one since he came to the Bears.

            It's real simple.........Cutler is a good QB, not a great one. Only great QB's like P. Manning, Brady, Rodgers can win on a consistant basis with lesser talent around them on both sides of the ball. For Cutler to win big time he needs everything around him. The defense to keep the game close, an OL in front of him, a good running game behind him, and a full set of receivers including a pass catching TE, much like Schaub has in Houston.
            Here's the thing. Marshall's season depends only on Cutler. Cutler's season however depends on a lot of factors. Cutler's doing his job getting Marshall the ball and Marshall's doing his part being where he is supposed to be. The difference is that these two know your new passing offense from their days in Denver. Hester, Bennett and Jeffrey do not. There have been flashes with Bennett and Jeffrey (likely when things with that week's gameplan have "clicked") but Hester seems lost. Even the interception yesterday, he wasn't where he was supposed to be. Cutler took the blame, but that's just who he is. The receiver has to see the same thing the QB is seeing.

            I agree that elite QBs can win with lesser talent around them. The other thing those QBs that win with lesser talent around them have, besides being elite, is a consistent scheme. Manning would seem to be an exception (even though we have fundamentally changed our offense to suit him) but he isn't and Brady, Brees and Rodgers have all been in the same scheme for multiple years (Brees with his 7th year in the same offense is the newest of the three to his offense). Ask yourself - what is common to the two seasons Cutler was being talked about as elite (2008 and 2011). They were the only two seasons of his career that he was playing in the same offensive scheme for the second successive season. I was saying this at the start of the season, that his success and that of your offense would depend on how the rest of the offense adapts to the new scheme. Marshall's success and the struggles of the other receivers bear this theory out.

            I don't think Cutler needs everything to be in place for him to have a great season, as we saw just last year. He does however, need some scheme-continuity and some blind-side protection. When he's had that, he's excelled even throwing to the likes of Glenn Martinez. Put Aaron Rodgers in a brand new offense tomorrow. I guarantee you he struggles.

            Finally, the theory of "Cutler needs everything in place to be successful" (now it's entirely possible he does) doesn't explain why he played better last year with a worse receiving corps and a weaker defense.

            Originally posted by JohnShaft
            Forget his season, I thought that was an incredible press conference following a loss to the Packers that killed the season. I just wish more of the team gave a **** in that manner. The more he's been here the more and more happy I get that we did the trade for 2 3rds.
            I'm pleasantly surprised by Marshall's transformation too. I didn't really buy it at first and I was among those glad to see him gone (even if I didn't like how McDaniels did it). But then again, his behavior with Cutler around has always been much, much different than without Cutler's influence.

            Originally posted by // / yardo View Post
            Cutler, unfortunately, just has too much of a lackadaisical approach to the game. He just seems so disinterested.
            The key word being "seems". It's long since been established that Cutler's expression doesn't reveal how much he cares and how competitive he is. I think basing an opinion about someone's work ethic on their facial expressions is intellectually lazy.

            Originally posted by Sophia23 View Post
            I personally, was sad to see both amazing talents leave when McDaniels took over. I watch the Bears games even more now that Marshall is there. I think him and cutler are both fun to watch. I wasn't happy to see Cutler go, nor was happy with the seasons inbetween... but love having Peyton, and the team we have now.
            I was pissed at the way McDaniels handled the entire situation, but I thought we got great compensation in return for these two players. But Peyton Manning choosing us really does make everything better. Manning is just that awesome!

            Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            I was against the Cutler trade but the problems with the Bears starts and ends with him. He simply does not have the emotional maturity to be a premiere NFL quarterback. When things go south, his attitude goes south with it and you can't inspire your teammates acting that way. If Cutler was our quarterback when we were down 24-0 in San Diego, that's a 48-3 blowout loss. That's what separates Cutler from guys like Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. And if he isn't there by now, I don't foresee him ever getting there.
            Again, I don't understand how intelligent posters like yourself yardo keep making these intellectually lazy arguments. How do you know his "attitude goes south"? Whether it's Eddie Royal or Devin Hester, we've heard all his receivers and linemen say he's the same guy in the huddle whether they're up by 20 or down by 20.

            How do you explain him having more 4th quarter comebacks or a much better record in close games than Aaron Rodgers? I remember he had 5 4th-quarter comebacks in 2007 alone (two of which ended up as overtime losses before he got the ball).

            Finally, about "if he isn't there by now", he was "there" in 2008 (when he was a better QB than Rodgers) and in 2011, the two years he got a second season in the same scheme. If he wasn't elite, his career would have gone the way of Alex Smith and Jason Campbell, who floundered in the face of similar churn in offensive schemes. Maybe Cutler never stays in the "elite" category consistently (and with the way Chicago chops and changes OCs, it's quite possible) and keeps flirting with it as he has in his career so far, but unless that happens after him having been in the same offensive scheme for a while, it's not a fair or accurate judgment.
            Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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            • #7
              I am going to present the symptoms of a sociopath. Apply it to what we know of Marshall. I tend to think he is trying, but hey you never know.



              Profile of the Sociopath

              This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


              Glibness and Superficial Charm

              Manipulative and Conning
              They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

              Grandiose Sense of Self
              Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

              Pathological Lying
              Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

              Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
              A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

              Shallow Emotions
              When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

              Incapacity for Love

              Need for Stimulation
              Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

              Callousness/Lack of Empathy
              Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

              Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
              Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

              Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
              Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

              Irresponsibility/Unreliability
              Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

              Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
              Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

              Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
              Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

              Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
              Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

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              • #8
                Whats scary about that to me, is I am guilty of a few of those things.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                  Here's the thing. Marshall's season depends only on Cutler. Cutler's season however depends on a lot of factors. Cutler's doing his job getting Marshall the ball and Marshall's doing his part being where he is supposed to be. The difference is that these two know your new passing offense from their days in Denver. Hester, Bennett and Jeffrey do not. There have been flashes with Bennett and Jeffrey (likely when things with that week's gameplan have "clicked") but Hester seems lost. Even the interception yesterday, he wasn't where he was supposed to be. Cutler took the blame, but that's just who he is. The receiver has to see the same thing the QB is seeing.

                  I agree that elite QBs can win with lesser talent around them. The other thing those QBs that win with lesser talent around them have, besides being elite, is a consistent scheme. Manning would seem to be an exception (even though we have fundamentally changed our offense to suit him) but he isn't and Brady, Brees and Rodgers have all been in the same scheme for multiple years (Brees with his 7th year in the same offense is the newest of the three to his offense). Ask yourself - what is common to the two seasons Cutler was being talked about as elite (2008 and 2011). They were the only two seasons of his career that he was playing in the same offensive scheme for the second successive season. I was saying this at the start of the season, that his success and that of your offense would depend on how the rest of the offense adapts to the new scheme. Marshall's success and the struggles of the other receivers bear this theory out.

                  I don't think Cutler needs everything to be in place for him to have a great season, as we saw just last year. He does however, need some scheme-continuity and some blind-side protection. When he's had that, he's excelled even throwing to the likes of Glenn Martinez. Put Aaron Rodgers in a brand new offense tomorrow. I guarantee you he struggles.

                  Finally, the theory of "Cutler needs everything in place to be successful" (now it's entirely possible he does) doesn't explain why he played better last year with a worse receiving corps and a weaker defense.



                  I'm pleasantly surprised by Marshall's transformation too. I didn't really buy it at first and I was among those glad to see him gone (even if I didn't like how McDaniels did it). But then again, his behavior with Cutler around has always been much, much different than without Cutler's influence.



                  The key word being "seems". It's long since been established that Cutler's expression doesn't reveal how much he cares and how competitive he is. I think basing an opinion about someone's work ethic on their facial expressions is intellectually lazy.



                  I was pissed at the way McDaniels handled the entire situation, but I thought we got great compensation in return for these two players. But Peyton Manning choosing us really does make everything better. Manning is just that awesome!



                  Again, I don't understand how intelligent posters like yourself yardo keep making these intellectually lazy arguments. How do you know his "attitude goes south"? Whether it's Eddie Royal or Devin Hester, we've heard all his receivers and linemen say he's the same guy in the huddle whether they're up by 20 or down by 20.

                  How do you explain him having more 4th quarter comebacks or a much better record in close games than Aaron Rodgers? I remember he had 5 4th-quarter comebacks in 2007 alone (two of which ended up as overtime losses before he got the ball).

                  Finally, about "if he isn't there by now", he was "there" in 2008 (when he was a better QB than Rodgers) and in 2011, the two years he got a second season in the same scheme. If he wasn't elite, his career would have gone the way of Alex Smith and Jason Campbell, who floundered in the face of similar churn in offensive schemes. Maybe Cutler never stays in the "elite" category consistently (and with the way Chicago chops and changes OCs, it's quite possible) and keeps flirting with it as he has in his career so far, but unless that happens after him having been in the same offensive scheme for a while, it's not a fair or accurate judgment.
                  in what world did Cutler have a better season than Rodgers in 2008?

                  4000 yards 28 TDs to 13 INTs 64% comp 93.8 rating for aaron

                  4500 yards 25 TDs to 18 INTS 63% comp 86.0 rating for jay

                  not to mention since becoming the starters rodgers is avg 32 TDs a year to just 9 INTs where jay has never even thrown for more than 30 with a 20 TD avg with 16 INTS

                  you are ridiculously biased. If you cant tell Jay is a sour puss you havent been watching him. He goes and sits on the bench ALL THE TIME, ignores his coaches, yells at teammates, pushes them.

                  regardless of what his TEAMMATES say about him its fairly obvious to just about everyone watching him that he is not a leader, he in not in command, and he still makes god awful plays. what else would you expect teammates to say? yes he sucks, has a bad attitude.

                  jay is just not ever going to be an above avg QB hes 30 and has really shown no signs of becoming one

                  marshall is growing up that was a good trade for the bears, cutler on the other hand will never be worth those 2 first rounders + w/e else it was
                  Last edited by SBboundBRONCOS; 12-18-2012, 09:58 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                    in what world did Cutler have a better season than Rodgers in 2008?

                    4000 yards 28 TDs to 13 INTs 64% comp 93.8 rating for aaron

                    4500 yards 25 TDs to 18 INTS 63% comp 86.0 rating for jay

                    not to mention since becoming the starters rodgers is avg 32 TDs a year to just 9 INTs where jay has never even thrown for more than 30 with a 20 TD avg with 16 INTS

                    you are ridiculously biased. If you cant tell Jay is a sour puss you havent been watching him. He goes and sits on the bench ALL THE TIME, ignores his coaches, yells at teammates, pushes them.

                    regardless of what his TEAMMATES say about him its fairly obvious to just about everyone watching him that he is not a leader, he in not in command, and he still makes god awful plays. what else would you expect teammates to say? yes he sucks, has a bad attitude.

                    jay is just not ever going to be an above avg QB hes 30 and has really shown no signs of becoming one

                    marshall is growing up that was a good trade for the bears, cutler on the other hand will never be worth those 2 first rounders + w/e else it was
                    Are you kidding me? In 2008, Packers fans were pissed that Favre was let go. By contrast, Cutler was being considered the best young QB in football. Are you showing me the stats because you don't remember that season? Come on now. There was an ESPN article comparing the top young QBs in the league, based on defensive coaches and personnel evaluators. Cutler came out on top. Rodgers wasn't even on the list.

                    Rodgers has improved since then, while Cutler has regressed. The point was that at a point when both of them had been in their first offenses for a couple of years, Cutler was better. Rodgers, with the luxury of being in the same scheme for the next four years, has gotten better. Cutler has regressed with the constant churn of offensive schemes, the only exception being in 2011 - when he got a second season in the same scheme, he was playing at an elite level for the first time since 2008 (the only other time he had scheme continuity).

                    Cutler is a "sour puss" because of his facial expressions as seen on TV? Seriously, this is so intellectually lazy it's not even funny. What part of a game's coverage is spent on the QB's facial expressions? Maybe 5 minutes combined. You don't think there is a pre-contructed narrative of only showing those clips when Cutler is on the bench alone or looking angry? You say he sits on the bench "ALL THE TIME", when the time the camera spends on him is about 5 minutes during the entire game.

                    Heck, even after the deplorable coverage of the 2010 NFC Championship Game, I posted a thread to an interview of a local reporter who was shocked at the coverage. He had been on the sidelines the whole time. The coverage was that Cutler wasn't really hurt and he didn't cheer his teammates or help his backup. The local reporter said the truth was the complete opposite. The vehemence of his teammates anger at the coverage should tell you something about the media coverage of Cutler. It really is quite ridiculous what this has turned into.

                    How do you compare Cutler scolding his friends for talking about his charitable work and Rodgers whining that 60 minutes didn't talk about his charitable side?

                    You're saying it doesn't matter "what his teammates say". You're in a better position to judge his leadership than them. Are you listening to yourself?!!

                    Cutler may never be elite, but he's certainly proven to be above average. Even if he doesn't improve, he's still in the second tier outside of the 6 SB-winning QBs.
                    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                    • #11
                      You're seriously arguing that Cutler doesn't have a bad attitude?



                      Look, he's a warrior. He gets his ass kicked on a regular basis and keeps getting back up. But, he's 30 years old. He's past the point of even maybe being considered a "late bloomer". He still makes boneheaded plays, still makes amazing throws at times. He's not elite, he's not even premier. He's a good, tough, serviceable QB.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                        Are you kidding me? In 2008, Packers fans were pissed that Favre was let go. By contrast, Cutler was being considered the best young QB in football. Are you showing me the stats because you don't remember that season? Come on now. There was an ESPN article comparing the top young QBs in the league, based on defensive coaches and personnel evaluators. Cutler came out on top. Rodgers wasn't even on the list.

                        Rodgers has improved since then, while Cutler has regressed. The point was that at a point when both of them had been in their first offenses for a couple of years, Cutler was better. Rodgers, with the luxury of being in the same scheme for the next four years, has gotten better. Cutler has regressed with the constant churn of offensive schemes, the only exception being in 2011 - when he got a second season in the same scheme, he was playing at an elite level for the first time since 2008 (the only other time he had scheme continuity).

                        Cutler is a "sour puss" because of his facial expressions as seen on TV? Seriously, this is so intellectually lazy it's not even funny. What part of a game's coverage is spent on the QB's facial expressions? Maybe 5 minutes combined. You don't think there is a pre-contructed narrative of only showing those clips when Cutler is on the bench alone or looking angry? You say he sits on the bench "ALL THE TIME", when the time the camera spends on him is about 5 minutes during the entire game.

                        Heck, even after the deplorable coverage of the 2010 NFC Championship Game, I posted a thread to an interview of a local reporter who was shocked at the coverage. He had been on the sidelines the whole time. The coverage was that Cutler wasn't really hurt and he didn't cheer his teammates or help his backup. The local reporter said the truth was the complete opposite. The vehemence of his teammates anger at the coverage should tell you something about the media coverage of Cutler. It really is quite ridiculous what this has turned into.

                        How do you compare Cutler scolding his friends for talking about his charitable work and Rodgers whining that 60 minutes didn't talk about his charitable side?

                        You're saying it doesn't matter "what his teammates say". You're in a better position to judge his leadership than them. Are you listening to yourself?!!

                        Cutler may never be elite, but he's certainly proven to be above average. Even if he doesn't improve, he's still in the second tier outside of the 6 SB-winning QBs.
                        i can only go by what i see and his actions have shown nothing about being a leader just like you are only basing that off of what his teammates said, which is just as ignorant perhaps more. You want your QB yelling at players (and not in a fiery leader way) pushing them around and all around moping around? Body Language says a lot about a person

                        id put him in that 3rd tier with freeman alex smith and so on. somwhere in the 15-20 category. that was Rodgers first year starting so of course Cutler who had a decent season would be ranked ahead of him. you are being ridiculous man and have been since hes been traded.

                        jay can do no wrong in your eyes, idk why you care so much about him. and i certainly wouldnt call 2011 ELITE by any means, he was having perhaps his best season it still was FAR from Elite, 13 tds and 7 INTs through 9 games.


                        but your probably right, its a media conspiracy to only show cutler being pissed or sitting alone or nothing that elite QBs do like inspiring teammates

                        and you want to talk about "INTELLECTUALLY LAZY" ha
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
                          You're seriously arguing that Cutler doesn't have a bad attitude?



                          Look, he's a warrior. He gets his ass kicked on a regular basis and keeps getting back up. But, he's 30 years old. He's past the point of even maybe being considered a "late bloomer". He still makes boneheaded plays, still makes amazing throws at times. He's not elite, he's not even premier. He's a good, tough, serviceable QB.
                          Cutler's guilty of having a lousy expression and being too blunt with the media. A guy with a bad attitude would not be able to play at the level he has with type-1 diabetes.

                          I haven't said he's elite. But he's much better than serviceable. A lot of those "boneheaded" plays, his receiver is nowhere near the ball. It could be that the mistakes are his and not his receivers running the wrong routes. You can believe what you choose. From everything I've seen and from Marshall, Hester and Bennett talking about how Cutler's constantly correcting their routes in practice or from Shanahan and Martz talking about how quickly Cutler picks up a playbook and how well he reads defenses, I'm inclined to think the route-runners are the problem.

                          Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                          i can only go by what i see and his actions have shown nothing about being a leader just like you are only basing that off of what his teammates said, which is just as ignorant perhaps more. You want your QB yelling at players (and not in a fiery leader way) pushing them around and all around moping around? Body Language says a lot about a person

                          id put him in that 3rd tier with freeman alex smith and so on. somwhere in the 15-20 category. that was Rodgers first year starting so of course Cutler who had a decent season would be ranked ahead of him. you are being ridiculous man and have been since hes been traded.

                          jay can do no wrong in your eyes, idk why you care so much about him. and i certainly wouldnt call 2011 ELITE by any means, he was having perhaps his best season it still was FAR from Elite, 13 tds and 7 INTs through 9 games.


                          but your probably right, its a media conspiracy to only show cutler being pissed or sitting alone or nothing that elite QBs do like inspiring teammates

                          and you want to talk about "INTELLECTUALLY LAZY" ha
                          I'm not going to bother with the "third tier" comment. That's quite ridiculous IMO. The point about 2008 was about the two QBs after one had been in his system for 2 years (Cutler) and the other had been in his system for 3 (Rodgers). Had Cutler continued in the same system under Shanahan, it's not unreasonable to project a similar growth chart for him as Rodgers has enjoyed by being in the same system.

                          As for attitude and leadership, you say you are going by what you "see". But what you "see" are five minute clips of facial expressions, not "actions". Actions are things like not letting type-1 diabetes slow your career down, offering to take less money so the team can hire better players, working with children suffering from diabetes, letting Brandon Marshall stay in your house while serving his suspension so he can keep up with the gameplan, getting his receivers together to workout while other QBs were enjoying their time off. Those are actions.

                          So the way Cutler yells at his players is not the "fiery leader sort of way", but when Rodgers or Brady do the same thing, it's them yelling in the "fiery leader sort of way". That's some serious contortions you are making your reasoning do.

                          You say it's "ridiculous" to base an opinion of his leadership on what his teammates say. But I should base it on your opinion of his body-language? Who do you think knows him better? You say body language is important. Do you really trust your reading of body-language that much? Do you know the first thing body-language experts (who themselves call it an inexact science at best) do? They "baseline" a person's body language, i.e. what does he or she do in the absence of any triggers. Then they compare it with their behavior in the presence of those triggers. The point is that one cannot draw an intelligent conclusion from comparing the body language of one person with another. It's like assuming every person that's charming and polite is a great human being, and everyone that is nervous or short-tempered is a bad one.

                          This is what is intellectually lazy. You want to make an easy assumption (and it's an assumption, not an opinion) or consume a media-narrative (that is annoying a lot of NFL fans, go check out the comments from non-Chicago, non-Denver fans on a Cutler story on PFT). Heck, during the week 2 game on NFL Network, Mike Mayock was talking about how he hadn't seen any player other than Manning throw as many routes pre-game as Cutler and was wondering why we never hear about it in the media (Manning's routing was very much publicised in Indy).

                          I defend the guy because it is a minority opinion, but one that I feel is the correct one. I respond to the attacks on his character and leadership, not his play. There are at least 8 QBs better than him right now (Peyton, Eli, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisberger, Ryan and Schaub). But the attacks on his character and "attitude", I just find ridiculous. When Cutler was here and popular, I didn't really feel the need to say much about him. I was defending Ryan Clady, Ian Gold, etc. If someone were to attack Peyton Manning or Champ Bailey now, there would be a ton of people to defend them, but if there weren't I would. Cutler on a Bronco board is an easy target. There are many posters who have gotten tired of the same, old lazy attacks on him. Maybe I should too.
                          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                            Had Cutler continued in the same system under Shanahan, it's not unreasonable to project a similar growh chart for him as Rodgers has enjoyed by being in the same system.

                            As for attitude and leadership, you say you are going by what you "see". But what you "see" are five minute clips of facial expressions pressions, not "actions". Actions are things like not letting type-1 diabetes slow your career down, offering to take less money so the team can hire better players, working with children suffering from diabetes, letting Brandon Marshall stay in your house while serving his suspension so he can keep up with the gameplan, getting his receivers together to workout while other QBs were enjoying their time off. Those are actions.

                            I defend the guy because it is a minority opinion, but one that I feel is the correct one. I respond to the attacks on his character and leadership, not his play. There are at least 8 QBs better than him right now (Peyton, Eli, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisberger, Ryan and Schaub). But the attacks on his character and "attitude", I just find ridiculous. When Cutler was here and popular, I didn't really feel the need to say much about him. I was defending Ryan Clady, Ian Gold, etc. If someone were to attack Peyton Manning or Champ Bailey now, there would be a ton of people to defend them, but if there weren't I would. Cutler on a Bronco board is an easy target. There are many posters who have gotten tired of the same, old lazy attacks on him. Maybe I should too.
                            I completely agree. Because of what you mentioned above I just look over the Cutler comments. Even some of the better ones because it's just not worth the debate anymore. I like the guy. Loved him when he was here. Understood his position when Shanahan was fired and he ended up on the block. The dude isn't perfect but he had a ton of potential.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by // / yardo View Post
                              I completely agree. Because of what you mentioned above I just look over the Cutler comments. Even some of the better ones because it's just not worth the debate anymore. I like the guy. Loved him when he was here. Understood his position when Shanahan was fired and he ended up on the block. The dude isn't perfect but he had a ton of potential.
                              Thanks for your post yardo. I need to stay away from these threads.
                              Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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