League MVP should be...

[JohnShaft]

Like Deion said. If A.P doesn't win they just should just change it to the MVQB award.

Great comment.

Seriously, people are making the point that QB's are ever more key to a team because the league has become a passing one (and not just by choice, but rule adjustments to make it so)? That MAKES THE CASE for a Running Back.

Passing is a dime a dozen these days. The 2011 season put FOUR Passers in the Top Six for passing yards in a season (including #1 and #2). Brees broke Marino's record by nearly 10%.

Honestly, historic passing seasons are a dime a dozen under the current NFL rules set. Running yards AREN'T.

[#87Birdman]

Great comment.

Seriously, people are making the point that QB's are ever more key to a team because the league has become a passing one (and not just by choice, but rule adjustments to make it so)? That MAKES THE CASE for a Running Back.

Passing is a dime a dozen these days. The 2011 season put FOUR Passers in the Top Six for passing yards in a season (including #1 and #2). Brees broke Marino's record by nearly 10%.

Honestly, historic passing seasons are a dime a dozen under the current NFL rules set. Running yards AREN'T.

But couldn't that same case be used against him then? Since passing is becoming king aren't D's starting to create defenses to stop the pass and become weak against the run? So if a team like the Vikings build a running team wouldn't they have a decent chance running into teams built to stop the pass?

I should also add what he has done is remarkable.

[JohnShaft]

Birdman, if that was true why are teams STILL giving up massive passing yards, but not massive rushing yards? This season is on pace to have passers with the most passing yards for any season EXCEPT for 2011.

And I can use that to reinforce the AP case: No team is putting resources into stopping the Vikes passing game. Quite the opposite.

On the first play from scrimmage 2 weeks ago I was furious because the Bears gave up a 50+ run to AP despite having nine men in the box!

[bronx_2003]

Great comment.

Seriously, people are making the point that QB's are ever more key to a team because the league has become a passing one (and not just by choice, but rule adjustments to make it so)? That MAKES THE CASE for a Running Back.

Passing is a dime a dozen these days. The 2011 season put FOUR Passers in the Top Six for passing yards in a season (including #1 and #2). Brees broke Marino's record by nearly 10%.

Honestly, historic passing seasons are a dime a dozen under the current NFL rules set. Running yards AREN'T.

Its not about passing stats, and yes they are obviously higher nowadays because its a passing league, its about quality QB play which is still very difficult to find. As a Bears fan you should know this better then anyone.

QB's impact the team far far far more then any other position, and the best 2 are Brady and PM......... then Rodgers.

AP is the exception this year, and I would give him MVP IF they make the playoffs. Its hard crowning someone most valuable when their impact has not taken their team to the playoffs. Yet without Manning, Brady and Rodgers it would be pretty unlikely Denver, NE and GB would be in the playoffs, let alone 3 of the best teams in the league who are serious SB contenders.

I don't like QB's getting it all the time either, but if its an award for most valuable then its hard going anywhere else.

Even if the Vikings make the playoffs as a wildcard they will be one and done. The 3 QB's have their teams on the brink of a SB.

[getlynched47]

Calvin Johnson on the cusp of breaking the receiving-yards record is pretty impressive as well. But even though I'm a huge Bronco homer, Adrian Peterson means more to his team than Peyton Manning means to the Denver Broncos (by a small margin). :2cents:

[bronx_2003]

Calvin Johnson on the cusp of breaking the receiving-yards record is pretty impressive as well. But even though I'm a huge Bronco homer, Adrian Peterson means more to his team than Peyton Manning means to the Denver Broncos (by a small margin). :2cents:

Wrong. I get what your saying but its still wrong.

Without PM Denver are not a SB contender.

With AP the Vikings are still not a SB contender and probably not even a playoff team.

[// / yardo]

Wrong. I get what your saying but its still wrong.

Without PM Denver are not a SB contender.

With AP the Vikings are still not a SB contender and probably not even a playoff team.

There it is. As simple as it can be said.

[theMileHighGuy]

Don't take away because of level of competition. You didn't do that with Tebow last year here so don't mix and match your points for different arguments. As I told you Christian Ponder was good to start the season and it shuts down this terrible point people keep bringing up and saying the Vikings would be a 2 win team. The stats and a closer look at the situation disapproves this argument.

You have to factor level of competition. I like Tebow but he's not infallible to me, and he wasn't affecting an MVP race. (Why do you always bring him up, anyway? ) If the Vikings were just playing Toby Gerhart, who's to say that Ponder would have done as well? We don't know.

I said that production was still good. But it wasn't anywhere close to MVP good. You are the one taking things away from certain players. You acted like Peterson had done it all by himself in an early post. All these great players have a lot of help to do it. Peterson has his O line. Manning and Brady have there O lines and wideouts. It is a team game and no one does it by themselves.

That is true. However Moreno is playing really good football. And I was respodning to this exact comment "NO ONE has ever torn knee ligaments and come back better than they were before". As I said I disagree because Moreno is playing better then he ever did before the injury. And as I said. People have come back from the ACL injury before. No one has come back from Mannings injury and played this well.

I don't completely think Moreno is playing better than he was before he got hurt last year. He's relishing in more opportunities, and doing what I always thought he could do. He's not facing 8 and 9 man fronts every play, and the offense isn't on his back.

And how does that make zero sense. You said that the Vikings are a 2 win team with Peterson. They will finish 8-8. Therefor there is a 6 game win difference between what you think they would be without Peterson and what they actually are with Peterson.

Without Manning you said we are a 6 win football team. However with him and in reality we will be 13-3. There is a 7 game win difference between what you think we would be without Manning and what we actually are. Therefor having more wins because of him and showing he has more value to the team.

I dunno, maybe it's your wording. I understand that the margin of victories is higher with Manning. We're also a much better team than the Vikings.

And as I said I think any 3 deserve the award if all 3 teams make the playoffs. However please stop with the dramatics. A riot. Peterson is not a clear cut favorite. That is obvious to everyone. If his team makes the playoffs and he gets it then fine. However are you really saying he is the clear cut MVP ?

I'm sorry, I'm a drama queen.

My problem that I've been trying to convey with Manning and Brady winning the award is that they are having average Manning and Brady type of seasons. Manning of course has the miraculous story behind his comeback (Which is why he is the clear cut choice for comeback player of the year). AP is rewriting the book on running backs, in an era where big time running backs are a rarity, and on a team that has no passing threat. He's going to finish with a better season than the only other running backs to win it that I can think of in recent memory in LT and Barry Sanders.

It's certainly not clear-cut, I never meant to make it seem like it was, but I just feel passionately about a guy having his type of season being properly recognized for it.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

a lot of people around here seem to have awards backwards.

They dont want to Give ROY to a QB that doesnt make the playoffs its an individual award

they want to give MVP to a RB even if his team doesnt make the playoffs its a team based award

Give AP OPoY if they miss the playoffs if they make them .... then he is all deserving of a MVP

manning and brady mean everything to their teams its between them if the Vikes miss the playoffs

the culture in Denver has completely 180'd since manning got here

[johnlimburg]

You have to factor level of competition. I like Tebow but he's not infallible to me, and he wasn't affecting an MVP race. (Why do you always bring him up, anyway? ) If the Vikings were just playing Toby Gerhart, who's to say that Ponder would have done as well? We don't know.

I don't think you have to when factoring in the argument that is being used. That argument is that they are a 2 win team without him. On that schedule I just don't think that is true because early on he played very well. But it is true that we don't know what would have happened.

I don't completely think Moreno is playing better than he was before he got hurt last year. He's relishing in more opportunities, and doing what I always thought he could do. He's not facing 8 and 9 man fronts every play, and the offense isn't on his back.

I disagree. He is far more patient with his runs. He is not dancing around behind the line of scrimage. When the hole is there he is hitting it. He is harder to bring down now then he ever was. He is protecting the football well and looks to have a little more burst than before the injury. I would say he is better then he was before. If he was like this before I would not have been as critical of him.

I dunno, maybe it's your wording. I understand that the margin of victories is higher with Manning. We're also a much better team than the Vikings.

Yes we are. I think they are about a 4-5 win team this year without Adrian Peterson. I think we are about a 6 win team without Manning. Not because I feel we are that bad. Just that our schedule was tough this season. I know it seems easy now after the top 3 teams however some other games were tougher then our team made them look in my opinion.

I'm sorry, I'm a drama queen.

My problem that I've been trying to convey with Manning and Brady winning the award is that they are having average Manning and Brady type of seasons. Manning of course has the miraculous story behind his comeback (Which is why he is the clear cut choice for comeback player of the year). AP is rewriting the book on running backs, in an era where big time running backs are a rarity, and on a team that has no passing threat. He's going to finish with a better season than the only other running backs to win it that I can think of in recent memory in LT and Barry Sanders.

It's certainly not clear-cut, I never meant to make it seem like it was, but I just feel passionately about a guy having his type of season being properly recognized for it.

I don't think Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are having average seasons for themselves. Tom Brady is arguably having his second best season as a pro. Peyton Manning has had many MVP seasons so I could see that however I wouldn't call it average for him. I would call it just him which is great.

And I understand. I wouldn't mind Adrian Peterson getting it if his team makes the playoffs. I said in my first post I thought all 3 were worthy. I just made a case for Peyton Manning because I have watched everything he has produced this season. I have not with the other guys.

[RaiderFanSD]

The Vikings would trade Adrian Peterson tomorrow for Peyton Manning if they could.

Tells me all I need to know about who the MVP is and should be.

You can say that about any of the top 5-7 QBs. All of them MVP worthy?

Again, Brady is having the best season as far as QB's go. While Manning should be considered, he's not the BEST at his position this year, and the same team last year made the playoffs despite a terrible QB situation. Also, Broncos have a top 5 D while the Patriots are ranked 26th. At this point Brady is more valuable to his team & his stats back him up as well.

[JohnShaft]

The Vikings would trade Adrian Peterson tomorrow for Peyton Manning if they could.

Tells me all I need to know about who the MVP is and should be.

Well you can offer that, I'll offer a rebuttal that's about as valid as your point.

If you ask in a Vikes forum if Manning deserves the award over Peterson I figure the amount who says yes will be about zero.

The fact that a number (half?) of the Broncos fans in this thread say Peterson should probably take it says to me two things:
1. There's some good posters here, who can look beyond team bias.
2. That Peterson is probably more deserving of the award.

BTW I also completely reject your view on the trade. I don't think they would even take the trade. Without age factors they probably would. With, for a QB who is 37.5 next season? No way IMO.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

You can say that about any of the top 5-7 QBs. All of them MVP worthy?

Again, Brady is having the best season as far as QB's go. While Manning should be considered, he's not the BEST at his position this year, and the same team last year made the playoffs despite a terrible QB situation. Also, Broncos have a top 5 D while the Patriots are ranked 26th. At this point Brady is more valuable to his team & his stats back him up as well.

You dont have to be the best at your postion to be MVP. It is the Player most valuable to their team, the player that if the team had to go without would likely be not considered SB contenders or even playoff worthy. Stats are not everything in MVP voting

The best player is OPOY and DPOY respectively. MVP is most important player

Last year i think Aaron Rodgers won MVP and Brees won OPOY

AD is every bit deserving of OPOY whether or not they make the playoffs is irrelevant. MVP is another story, he will be in the conversation with Manning and Brady

[ERoyal248]

You can say that about any of the top 5-7 QBs. All of them MVP worthy?

Again, Brady is having the best season as far as QB's go. While Manning should be considered, he's not the BEST at his position this year, and the same team last year made the playoffs despite a terrible QB situation. Also, Broncos have a top 5 D while the Patriots are ranked 26th. At this point Brady is more valuable to his team & his stats back him up as well.

Prior to the SF game, Den was only giving up 1.3 less PPG. And NE's D has been playing much better lately, especially with getting Talib.

And by your logic, NE won 11 games with Matt Cassel, what's the point?

[Sync]

Here's my coffee-fueled take on the subject.

Manning has a complete team around him. We have one of the best defensive units in the league and a potent rushing attack. We saw it very recently; we really beat the Ravens on the strength of our defense and running game, with Peyton doing no more or less than he had to while the well-oiled machine that is the Denver Broncos churned out a big win (although the throws he did make, were undeniably important ones). We keep hearing that this is the team that Colts fans wish they'd seen back in Indianapolis, and that this might be the best group Peyton has ever had around him. Conversely, Peterson has the 32nd ranked passing offense helping him out. This is a spectacular feat of ineptitude for any unit to achieve when you have a top-five rushing attack being lead by clear and away the best RB in the league taking the pressure off you.

Manning also has the opportunity to affect every snap of the ball that's taken on offense. Peterson does not. And yet, he is arguably the only reason that the Vikings are in contention for the playoffs. Whether they make it or not will be a reflection upon the piss-poor team they have surrounding AP, not the effort he's put in or the value he's provided. As I've said elsewhere, I've watched the Vikings some this year and they would not have won many games without Peterson, if any at all. The fact that he's provided enough impact from a limited position to provide his team with more than a handful of wins is truly impressive. Unfortunately, this is a team game, and his team is pretty terrible.

Statistically, Peterson is also approaching a milestone that can't be overlooked. 2000 yards is no small task in a league that's all about airing the ball out, especially when you're playing for a team with no other playmakers taking the focus off you. We might see him make history. But perhaps more important than this is that he has achieved a level of statistical separation from other "top" RBs in the league that Peyton hasn't quite equalled with the other elite quarterbacks.

Now, you could argue that since the award goes to the most important player, and I've recognised that Peterson can only be as important as his position allows him to be - which looks like it might not be enough - that it's unavoidable the award goes to Peyton. He's not only had an impressive year as a quarterback, but has us occupying the #2 seed and has helped us improve in nearly every facet of the game simply by being present on the roster. I think this is where I'm going to get into conflict with others, because I'm trying to look at the MVP award with some perspective. You've got to allow for the fact that Peterson could be the best running back of all time (I know he's not, but bear with me) having the best season of all time and, in this day and age... he would still not be as "valuable" to his team as a top-10 quarterback might be, despite his historic levels of production. Unless you want to admit that noone except a quarterback is going to win this award from now on, you've got to factor in the limited sphere of influence other positions have to deal with.

Ultimately, both Peyton or Peterson could be given the MVP award. Neither would be the "wrong" decision, barring a serious slide in their play over the next two weeks. I think it's likely, despite what I've argued above, that the Vikings miss the playoffs; Peterson receives OPOY honours whilst Manning is crowned the MVP. Before anyone tears me apart for this post, I'm well aware that a lot of this comes down to a matter of opinion (how many wins we would have without Peyton and how many wins the Vikings would have without Peterson is pretty difficult to truly, accurately know) and I don't really have any motivation to make a pitch against Manning any more than I already have done. I'd be pretty damn happy to have the MVP on our team. But, like others, I appreciate good football and in the spirit of that I appreciate Adrian Peterson.

/essay

TL;DR ... They're both awesome.