Top players of different categories since new alignemnt era

[fallforward3y+]

Either way CJ Spiller and Jamaal Charles should both be up there

From what you said about Jerious Norwood, perhaps I was a little Falcon biased on that one..and maybe I was going more on potential than production.

However, Spiller and Charles don't belong out there. If I take Norwood out, I put in McFadden or Willie Parker. Don't get me wrong, those 2 are fast but bare in mind I only have 3 or 4 names per category. How can you say definitively that Spiller and Charles are better than those 2. Charles may have the best combination of vision and quickness to find the hole, but purely on his speed he is not as good as those guys.

Bare in mind, I'm going on home run threat based on them being able to outrun guys to the endzone. Going on most TDs from far out can be unreliable, because often times long TDs are the result of missed tackles or poor angles. I remember at one point Ernest Graham was leading the league in 40 plus TDs and he may have been the league's slowest RB.

I remember a play where Hines Ward scored a 70 yard TD on DeAngelo Hall, not by burning him, but by breaking out of his tackle..then getting caught around the 4 or so but diving into the endzone. If you go by long TD statistics, Ward burned Hall on that play. However, in reality Hall was actually much faster than Ward on that play because he was able to catch up to him before he reached the endzone, even after getting up from missing the tackle.

One could make the argument that breaking tackles on a TD run is just as good as not being touched, and I suppose it is, but its not the idea of a home run threat. You will not consistently score long TDs doing that, because defenders can tackle you with simple fundamentals. However, if you are able to get into open green..you will consistently make big runs if you have speed.

[beastlyskronk]

It doesn't matter how fast you are if you can't score, a home run threat can't be a home run threat if he doesn't score consistently and Charles and Spiller are 2 of the best at it. Even if speed is the main factor then Spiller should definitely be there, he ran an unofficial 4.27 at the combine, I don't remember the official time. Charles ran a 4.36 at the combine and he may even be faster than that on the football field. Even if Spiller's time is off, he very well may be the fastest RB in the NFL. But AP, Spiller and Charles are the biggest home run threats. They can score from anywhere on the field. AP had 27 runs of 20 or more yards. Spiller was 2nd with 12 and Charles was tied for 3rd with 11 (Doug Martin was the other RB). Spiller also had 5 runs of 40 or more yards. He also averaged 6 ypc on over 200 carries. Off the top of my head the only RBs that have been able to do that are OJ Simpson, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, and Mercury Morris.

[fallforward3y+]

From what I've seen of Charles, I wouldn't put him in my top 3. Willie Parker back in his day was probably the top home run threat, but he slipped my mind when I made it. I should edit the list and put him on there. I have AP on the list, as well as Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson I believe has a nod over CJ Spiller. Remember this isn't top home run threats right now, its since 2002..that includes CJ's 09 season. He was the top home run threat that year, and I don't believe he was ever caught from behind. He ran a 4.2, and was a threat to score at any point in time. No being fast doesn't automatically make you a scoring threat, however it is the major reason why backs can score from far out.

Its tough to rely on the statistics, because often times a slight crease is the difference between breaking a big one and only getting a 1 yard run. At times, the difference in scoring is if they can find those creases or not.

[johnlimburg]

Eddie Royal cannot be on that list. He had one great season and one good one. The others have all been unproductive. There are many more guys who could overtake him for one of the best short pass wide receivers. For example Brandon Marhsall. He makes a lot of short catches and turns them into bigger plays.

Tim Tebow wasn't even the best running quarterback in the one season he has seen extended playing time. Cam Newton was much better. Then this past season another guy named RG3 came into the picture and was better. Then in the past a guy like Mike Vick had been doing it well for a long time. Tim Tebow was not and is not the best running quarterback in the league.

If Nick Mangold gets a spot on the list as the best run blocker then I can think of two older guys who are much more deserving. Tom Nalen and Kevin Mawae. They both played in the time period we are talking about and both were better players then Nick Mangold. These guys should be ahead of Mangold on your list.

[fallforward3y+]

Eddie Royal cannot be on that list. He had one great season and one good one. The others have all been unproductive. There are many more guys who could overtake him for one of the best short pass wide receivers. For example Brandon Marhsall. He makes a lot of short catches and turns them into bigger plays.

Tim Tebow wasn't even the best running quarterback in the one season he has seen extended playing time. Cam Newton was much better. Then this past season another guy named RG3 came into the picture and was better. Then in the past a guy like Mike Vick had been doing it well for a long time. Tim Tebow was not and is not the best running quarterback in the league.

If Nick Mangold gets a spot on the list as the best run blocker then I can think of two older guys who are much more deserving. Tom Nalen and Kevin Mawae. They both played in the time period we are talking about and both were better players then Nick Mangold. These guys should be ahead of Mangold on your list.

I disagree on Cam Newton, but really I think what everyone disagrees with is the criteria for best running QB. Newton is certainly faster, and makes more big runs BUT I think Tebow is more of a true runner. Guys like Newton only run when they can get a big play, so ofcourse their stats will be good. But, Tebow is the only QB who can actually run when there are tacklers who can get to him before he gets a first down.

On Royal, I'm going by his early years. He was great at that. He was insanely quick and hard to catch, and if he was tackled he was good at falling forward to make it a good gain. If I was looking for a WR to use for short passes as a form of a run game, I'd pick him. His production certainly dropped, but not because of a lack of that skill. I was going purely on that.

On Mangold, well there have been lots of great run blockers who've played in that time. I decided to narrow it down to interior lineman since they block the best run stuffers(DTs)..It was tough to narrow it down, but I do think Mangold is the best run blocking center, he's a beast. The 2 you named are good though. If I replaced Mangold with anybody I'd probably go with Brian Waters,Will Shields or Jahri Evans

[johnlimburg]

I disagree on Cam Newton, but really I think what everyone disagrees with is the criteria for best running QB. Newton is certainly faster, and makes more big runs BUT I think Tebow is more of a true runner. Guys like Newton only run when they can get a big play, so ofcourse their stats will be good. But, Tebow is the only QB who can actually run when there are tacklers who can get to him before he gets a first down.

What is more of a traditional runner ? Tebiw is not as explosive, not as fast, not as agile, not as quick and not as dynamic. He also fumbles the ball more then Cam Newton. Tim Tebow may have him just a little bit on power running however Cam Newton is probably just as strong as of a runner in traffic. Add in him being a much more dynamic runner as well and it makes him much tougher to get on the ground. And I don't think you have watched Cam Newton. He runs a lot of designed run plays and just turns them into bigger runs. Why ? Because he is better at it.

On Royal, I'm going by his early years. He was great at that. He was insanely quick and hard to catch, and if he was tackled he was good at falling forward to make it a good gain. If I was looking for a WR to use for short passes as a form of a run game, I'd pick him. His production certainly dropped, but not because of a lack of that skill. I was going purely on that.

As a rookie yes. He was good at it. However no way a guy who had one good year of it in his career can be on a list like this. There are many many many other guys who are better in this area. For example guys like Wes Welker, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne and may many others. They should all be above a guy like Eddie Royal. It isn't even a question.

On Mangold, well there have been lots of great run blockers who've played in that time. I decided to narrow it down to interior lineman since they block the best run stuffers(DTs)..It was tough to narrow it down, but I do think Mangold is the best run blocking center, he's a beast. The 2 you named are good though. If I replaced Mangold with anybody I'd probably go with Brian Waters,Will Shields or Jahri Evans

I could add many other players to go ahead of the very overrated Nick Mangold. On top of some legends like the guys I mentioned there are also the guys you mentioned along with one of the best guards in the NFL, Carl Nicks. Also I would look at Adrian Petersons offensive line to see some amazing run blocking offensive lineman.

[fallforward3y+]

What is more of a traditional runner ? Tebiw is not as explosive, not as fast, not as agile, not as quick and not as dynamic. He also fumbles the ball more then Cam Newton. Tim Tebow may have him just a little bit on power running however Cam Newton is probably just as strong as of a runner in traffic. Add in him being a much more dynamic runner as well and it makes him much tougher to get on the ground. And I don't think you have watched Cam Newton. He runs a lot of designed run plays and just turns them into bigger runs. Why ? Because he is better at it.



As a rookie yes. He was good at it. However no way a guy who had one good year of it in his career can be on a list like this. There are many many many other guys who are better in this area. For example guys like Wes Welker, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne and may many others. They should all be above a guy like Eddie Royal. It isn't even a question.



I could add many other players to go ahead of the very overrated Nick Mangold. On top of some legends like the guys I mentioned there are also the guys you mentioned along with one of the best guards in the NFL, Carl Nicks. Also I would look at Adrian Petersons offensive line to see some amazing run blocking offensive lineman.

I have watched him run, and he's not as good of an in traffic runner as Tebow is, though he probably is the 2nd best among QBs, more than Wilson and RG3 for sure. But I don't take into consideration long runs with a lot of space. For those, they only take off when they know they can get a big chunk before they are touched, and when they finally are approached they usually have a ton of space to evade them. Its practically like a kick return. I was thinking of the QB who could best run like a real RB, than IMO is Tebow.

If you throw a short pass to Royal, he still is good at doing that specific thing. If your talking purely about skill in that area, I think he belongs there. I don't factor the system in at all, and that's what creates a lot of the stats. I'd take Royal over any of those guys. Wayne is not very good at the ball carrier aspect of the game, if his stats on short passes are good its just because he probably gets a lot of passes when there's a lot of open space in front of him. Ward was ok at that, but not really monstrous at it. Welker is good, but as said I'd take Royal. He just is being used improperly, SD is a mess. Moss didn't look very good when he was in a bad situation with Oakland in 06, but it turned out he still was VERY good, when put in the right one.

For the lineman, I don't think Mangold is overrated at all. Carl Nicks is good too, as are many guys but they can't all be on the list. And I did list a lineman of AP's, Hutchinson. I believe Ed Sullivan is their center's name, he is also very good. Matt Birk was pretty good when he blocked for AP as well, and helped make b-more's line very good as well. Basic point is, lots of good guys but they can't all be on the list. Although I do admit that if you take one guy off its Mangold, I think no list is complete without Hutch and Feneca. Hutch even helped give SA monster stats, lol