McDaniels to Cleveland?

[BroncoFanDK]

I recently read a comment on I believe ESPN about Tebow from of course a huge Tebow fan. His comment after you read it you have to admit the guy has a point.....he said if only Tebow could throw he'd really be a good QB!!....If only I were a young man about 6'6" who could throw, be cool under pressure, know when to hold the ball, run not just have some good luck a few times but well, be as good or better than say Elway and Manning then I, too, would be a really good QB esp in the NFL!! But he has a point....!!!

I'm sorry but I think that's hilarious mostly because the guy was absolutely dead serious.

The fact with the bible bully is that after the by any objective standard VERY succesful 2011 season, he has not started a game. The impressive trait about him was his ability to get everyone to step up at opportune times.

While he might have been a one year wonder, or he might have been able to develop a lot. No one knows, because he has not been given the opportunity to neither fail nor succeed.

The projection based on achievement would clearly favour success, and the eye test often does not. I for one would like to see Tebow start long enough to either suceed or fail properly.

[Charlie Brown]

Ok, so this thread about the Browns coaching search involving Josh McDaniels is now exclusively a Tim Tebow (Or Chimmy Chebow as I mockingly call him). I suggest the Mods change the title from McDaniels/Cleveland to All Things Timmy Tebow.

[91bronco]

You are forgetting when this happened - at that time the 6-0 Kyle Orton/Broncos had turned into the 2-5 Kyle Orton/Broncos that had blown one of the biggest division leads ever to miss the playoffs. Chris Simms was the backup, and Hillis was a RB that in limited action in 2010 had fumbled and been unproductive.

There were DP articles about how brilliant that move was but hindsight is 20:20. Had McDaniels known that he would loose his RBs and that he could draft a promising QB as a realistic backup the trade probably would not have happened.



Sorry but you are making things up. The facts were that McDaniels inquired about Cassel, that Patriots did not want to let him go to McDaniels and someone spilled that to a Boston Newspaper.

Three teams came calling trying to do a Cassel for Cutler deal and were turned down by McDaniels/Xanders, and before anyone came back with offers that might or might not have been presented to Bowlen, KC got Cassel.

Anything else is speculation.



Actually, I see the subsequent trade of Alphonso Smith as a good and mature decision - realise the mistake you made and move on.



McDaniels clearly made mistakes in the first draft, but not moreso than other HC's. While I like Moreno I did not like using such a high pick on him given that it was not our weakness.

On the other hand calling the drafting of a QB that subsequently improves your teams performance as much as Tebow did for a mistake is absurd. That bust converted our team from loosers to winners, and took the team to the final 8, and was by his peers chosen as a top 100 player in the NFL.

Many teams would have loved that, but lets not forget that Tebow became a bust because Manning came in. If the fine line is whether you are better than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, then there are a whole lot of 1st round busts out there.

2010 (1st year with the Browns after we traded him) was Hillis's best year- see the link below- Over 1500 yards from the line of scrimmage and 13 TD's- very productive

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonhillis/1980/careerstats

Link to 3 Team trade regarding Cutler/Cassel
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/p...urn=nfl,149110

Alphonso Smith- if you think trading next years 1st round pick for a 2nd and then giving up on the player before he reaches year 2 well.... Bottom line, if you were so convinced of the players talents to trade up for him then you owe it to the player and the organization to try and develop him. Either way, McD whiffed on value a couple times here- the initial trade up and the subsequent player received in return- bad value all the way around.

Tebow did not become a bust because Manning came to town. He became a bust because he couldn't read NFL defenses adequately and was WAY over drafted (among many of his other flaws). Hence the reason he is no longer employed in the NFL. Once again, bad value- he was not worth high round draft picks.

McDaniels led the Broncos to the worst record in recent memory 4-12- that's a fact.

[HUMCALC]

Can someone please explain to me why it's right to give up on a winning QB after one year, but not a CB?

[91bronco]

Can someone please explain to me why it's right to give up on a winning QB after one year, but not a CB?

If you are referring to Tebow,I think it has a lot to do with the regime change. As the head coach/GM of players you drafted, you should be accountable for those decisions. Elway wasn't invested in the Tebow pick the way McDaniels should have been to Smith because he wasn't responsible for bringing him to Denver.

[HUMCALC]

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't like the Smith pick, and I was glad that he was traded. I just wish that he'd gotten more for him

[91bronco]

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't like the Smith pick, and I was glad that he was traded. I just wish that he'd gotten more for him

Yeah we basically got nothing for him. A 7th round tight end who was only on a practice squad for 2 games the prior year.

If you're so convinced by a prospect that you trade a 1st round pick for him then you owe the organization a couple/few years to develop him. The alternative is that you really whiffed on your scouting of said prospect. From what I remember, we had a 1st round grade on him at the time (or that was the justification at least). I just didn't see it though- he was a small dude who didn't run particularly fast- I think he ran around a 4.7???

[beastlyskronk]

Yeah we basically got nothing for him. A 7th round tight end who was only on a practice squad for 2 games the prior year.

If you're so convinced by a prospect that you trade a 1st round pick for him then you owe the organization a couple/few years to develop him. The alternative is that you really whiffed on your scouting of said prospect. From what I remember, we had a 1st round grade on him at the time (or that was the justification at least). I just didn't see it though- he was a small dude who didn't run particularly fast- I think he ran around a 4.7???

Something had to happen between him and McDaniels during his rookie season. Smith ran a 4.37 at the combine and had a ton of picks in college. He was even serviceable in Detroit, i still think he'd be perfect for all these shorter slot wrs that are coming into the league.

[91bronco]

Something had to happen between him and McDaniels during his rookie season. Smith ran a 4.37 at the combine and had a ton of picks in college. He was even serviceable in Detroit, i still think he'd be perfect for all these shorter slot wrs that are coming into the league.

That's always a possibility but I haven't heard any whispers about it. I know the popular rumor regarding Hillis's exodus is that he accidentally hit on McD's wife so I suppose anything is possible.

It looks like I was definitely off regarding his 40. The combine has him between a 4.36 and a 4.58 with his official time at 4.47.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2009&genpos=CB

I just don't understand how one could defend how much it took to acquire him in return for what short time he was here and what little we got in return for him. If that's really the back up plan, then don't take the risk of trading up for him in the first place. Bad value all the way around.

[BroncoFanDK]

That's always a possibility but I haven't heard any whispers about it. I know the popular rumor regarding Hillis's exodus is that he accidentally hit on McD's wife so I suppose anything is possible.

It looks like I was definitely off regarding his 40. The combine has him between a 4.36 and a 4.58 with his official time at 4.47.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2009&genpos=CB

I just don't understand how one could defend how much it took to acquire him in return for what short time he was here and what little we got in return for him. If that's really the back up plan, then don't take the risk of trading up for him in the first place. Bad value all the way around.

I don't think that McDaniels would actually be happy with the pick in hindsight. What he did get out of the Detroit trade was clearing a 2nd round salary to a player that he had no use for. He had picked up 5th, 6th and 7th round players that were better.

It was a bust he drafted - many have drafted much worse. The pick was bad - the trade value was not!

[91bronco]

I don't think that McDaniels would actually be happy with the pick in hindsight. What he did get out of the Detroit trade was clearing a 2nd round salary to a player that he had no use for. He had picked up 5th, 6th and 7th round players that were better.

It was a bust he drafted - many have drafted much worse. The pick was bad - the trade value was not!

I don't follow your logic. Alphonso Smith played in the league longer and was more productive than Gronkowski ever was. We literally took a mid first round pick, turned it into a 2nd round draft choice (Alphonso Smith), traded Smith for a Practice Squad player and then cut him after zero production. We would have gotten more production out of Smith riding the pine for us than to scoop up Gronkowski.

Essentially McD made a 1st round pick disappear into nothing in about a year. That's good value???? The ironic thing is that we traded away a future 1st rounder- by the time the pick was actually made our investment was essentially already at zero!

The bottom line for me is that if you are prepared to trade away a future 1st round draft pick in order to trade up for a prospect, that prospect better be a "can't miss" type of player and you darn well better have justification for giving up the compensation in the first place.

This is a model on how to drain a franchises resources to zero.