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  • #16
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    Again another week passes and the officiating is just as bad as it ever was.

    They need to stop trying to improve it because it's having the opposite effect.

    But they want to 'First and Foremost' -according to Goodell.. protect the players.

    What about Welker? What about Manning? They both got cheap shotted


    Why bother changing the rules if you CAN'T be consistent.

    Anyone think a fine will come down for this hit? Someone said the official claimed it was legal because it was an INT. Dunno how that rule works but - he looked defenseless to me.
    Once the ball is tipped/touched, every player has to be aware (head on a swivel etc). That hit was legal, yet brutal. He's preventing Welker from being able to make a stop on the turnover return. Brutal, but fair. The Manning hit was legal as well IMO. The defender had left his feet while PM still had the ball, so the continuation of motion led to the contact.

    In stark contrast to your OP, I don't think it's the new rules that have the biggest interference on the game. Though I do find it odd that you espouse hate for the new rules, and then complain about hits that could only be considered illegal under....[relatively] new rules. Both the hit to Manning and the hit to Welker represent to me old school football hits that *should be legal under even current rules.

    The game is far more affected by calls like in the Monday night game last night. Where a clear fumble occurred and it was returned for a TD, only to be called back because an errant whistle blew. That had enormous impact on the game, and presented us with an incorrect conclusion.

    Penalties like offsides (neutral zone) infractions not being reviewable, as we saw have huge impact on the Denver game. Please don't take all this like I'm being snarky with you, just a different opinion on the matter, Dizz.

    As far as this domestic violence garbage, has no impact on the game for me whatsoever, stand as no threat to the NFL's popularity. The only people that won't watch due to the handling of these issues aren't really watching very often anyway, they are uber-casuals who's opinion on the NFL I wholly dismiss.

    As a matter of fact, the only people in my life that really go on and on about this, talking like the NFL is crooked and bent, aren't football fans at all. They actually espouse a great deal of disdain for all pro sports, and are just regurgitating the media narrative.

    The NFL already did more than most industries/businesses in regard to misdemeanor crimes by associates, now they'll tighten it up to a more acceptable standard. It's done, move on, nothing to see here.
    Last edited by ruksak; 09-23-2014, 04:24 AM.
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    • #17
      Ruksak if that hit is legal than why was a red skin player ejected from the eagles game for a similar play. They actual have a rule protecting players from hits like that and they missed the Welker one. It wasn't legal because he wasn't attempting to go back to the ball same reason on and int if the QB doesn't make an attempt to stop the returner a player can't just go blow the QB up. Chris Bakers hit was more legal than Thomas' because Foles was working back to the int and the ball was in play.

      manning actually took to hits to the head. The jumping guy jumped after the ball left his hand probably attempting to knock it down but earlier in the game after he threw it as he was going down another player went down and hit him as he was almost down which is well beyond after he threw the ball and was intentional as manning was already almost on the ground and the only way to accomplish hitting someone like that isn't going to be momentum at that point.

      but the biggest problem is there is no consistency on calls and everything is subjective and left up to the ref to call it when they want to.




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      • #18
        Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
        Ruksak if that hit is legal than why was a red skin player ejected from the eagles game for a similar play. They actual have a rule protecting players from hits like that and they missed the Welker one. It wasn't legal because he wasn't attempting to go back to the ball same reason on and int if the QB doesn't make an attempt to stop the returner a player can't just go blow the QB up.
        I say it's legal based off of my interpretation of the subcategory of the rule regarding defenseless receivers;
        (b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
        (1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him.

        To call that a hit to the head/neck area is a bit of a supposition, and I can easily see how, in live action, the ref would not determine that to be under the purview of the Defenseless Receiver rule.

        All I saw was a great hit to Welker's chest, a legal hit.
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        • #19
          Remember Talib's near Pick 6 on Sunday? Lockett made that great offensive PI break up right? At the cost of 10 yards and no loss of down. That is a loop hole in the rules. Here's why ...

          I hate defensive PI. The penalty is way too harsh as a spot foul by assuming the receiver would have caught the ball if he wasn't interfered with. There's no way you can assume a catch would have been made. To just award an offense as much as 50 yards sometimes is game changing.

          The argument against this is to say that if it's not a spot foul, the defense would just commit LOTS of PI fouls because they'd rather give up 10 yards and a 1st down(if that's what it was changed to) than as much as 50 yard gain sometimes, or however deep the pass was.

          Well if you turn it around to offensive PI, Why isn't it just as presumptuous that the defender would have caught the pass? It would turn out being a Turn Over right? so where the fairness and logic in offensive PI if a WR commits the foul and is only penalized 10 yards ........ not even a loss of down?

          If the league officials were to use the same logic they use with the defensive penalty and assume the catch would have been made, then they should presume the defender would have intercepted the pass as well.

          Right?

          I don't like presuming in the first place. So instead of changing the offensive PI, I just wish they'd ease up on the defensive PI penalty. I don't know how to fix this but maybe instead of a spot foul penalize the defense half the distance to the spot.

          It's just completely illogical the way it is now.
          The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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          • #20
            I agree with you, Dizzolve. The PI rules assume the receiver makes the catch. I'm not necessarily saying that PI shouldn't be a spot foul, but offensive PI should definitely result in a loss of down. Also, refer back to what happened to the Jets this past Monday night when Cutler fumbled and it was blown dead. The Jets clearly recovered and it clearly would've been a return for a touchdown, yet the rules state that it can't be assumed that the player who recovered would score and therefore the ball can't be advanced. So we assume a receiver will catch a pass on PI, but we can't assume a player will score on a recovery that the refs botch? Stupid.

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            • #21
              Another HUGE error by the officials in Dallas...... game is over anyhow BUT

              Stop blowing the whistle on possible fumble turnovers. Let it play then go look at it..... we were told that's what they're supposed to do but they seem to never do it that way. Then when they review it and overturn it to a fumble - the receiver of the turnover doesn't get the yards or points

              LAME officials
              The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                Another HUGE error by the officials in Dallas...... game is over anyhow BUT

                Stop blowing the whistle on possible fumble turnovers. Let it play then go look at it..... we were told that's what they're supposed to do but they seem to never do it that way. Then when they review it and overturn it to a fumble - the receiver of the turnover doesn't get the yards or points

                LAME officials
                I'm so pissed that they keep doing that. Why are they doing that? I've seen them take away several fumbles from teams now. Ugh
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                • #23
                  This crew doing tonight's Patriots Bengals game is another crew that constantly does stupid stuff like tonight they set the sticks at the wrong yardage -

                  Missed intentional grounding call till the Bengals pointed it out to them. Made 2 or 3 calls that the booth color guys were scratching their heads about

                  Jerome Bolger seems like a nice gentleman but I really think this crew is subpar

                  On a positive note - the crew that did the Broncos game today seemed pretty solid.
                  The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                    No way

                    If anything the public life of NFL players makes them more -as you say- 'ostracized'

                    Have your opinion - but THIS post is about New Rules ruining the game. It's the NFL biggest problem
                    I agree with you, when you compare the percentage of NFL Players versus percentage of people in society who commit actions like DV, Sexual Assault etc. it hardly seems like the NFL has some special problem, and the expectation that the NFL will be 'better behaved' overall than society is a bit silly. However, if you didn't want it to be brought up you should probably have left it out of your post.

                    Anyway, as to your original post I highly doubt that the refs making bad calls is going to make people stop watching the game. Bad calls aren't anything new in the NFL IMO, SB 40 was one of the worst officiated games in NFL History and was a Super Bowl, fans still watched. Certain calls are subjective at times, and likely always will be.

                    As much as I would like for every call to be made perfectly, there are certain things that will get called wrong. I used to be big on hating bad calls, heck I remember thinking Pittsburgh's SB win in 2008 was tainted because it seemed there was a bit of holding on Harrison's pick return. Looking back, I find that pretty ridiculous..it's likely there were a lot of missed holding penalties on AZ as well.

                    I only find it to be a major problem if we're talking about several bad calls in a game, or something that actually ends up costing a team the game, or severely hindering their chances to win.

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                    • #25
                      Well, the more they tweak the rules, the less ANYone knows what is what. Bad calls come with the territory in football -like you say- you just have to accept it. Pretty sad isn't it? Even Phil Simms or John Gruden who watch 10 replays on a challenge see a play differently than officials might. It's like - if we're going to be flipping a coin anyway - why bother with the stoppages and rules changes in the first place.

                      I mean to emphasize that it's not improving the game- it's ruining it more than people will stop watching - even though people that I know have stopped. Not many - but one whom I have a lot of respect for has which for me is credible.

                      I'm just disgusted with the entire movement. It seems politically motivated. It's not in the interest of the game itself. I just wish they'd stop thinking they can reinvent the wheel and take care when deciding to move the goal posts.
                      The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                        Well, the more they tweak the rules, the less ANYone knows what is what. Bad calls come with the territory in football -like you say- you just have to accept it. Pretty sad isn't it? Even Phil Simms or John Gruden who watch 10 replays on a challenge see a play differently than officials might. It's like - if we're going to be flipping a coin anyway - why bother with the stoppages and rules changes in the first place.

                        I mean to emphasize that it's not improving the game- it's ruining it more than people will stop watching - even though people that I know have stopped. Not many - but one whom I have a lot of respect for has which for me is credible.

                        I'm just disgusted with the entire movement. It seems politically motivated. It's not in the interest of the game itself. I just wish they'd stop thinking they can reinvent the wheel and take care when deciding to move the goal posts.
                        How exactly do you figure the movement to be politically motivated? Are you referring to rules aiding the passing game or that the NFL is trying to rig games with intentional bad calls? If it's the latter, I seriously doubt it. If your referring to making it a pass happy league, I'm with you on that. I'm more of a 'ball carriers guy', I like to see good tackling and the game without a strong focus on that isn't a brand of football that I'd want to see. BUT, I also think people exaggerate and panic too much with fearing it becoming a flag league(and I've been guilty of that myself). Looking back, I don't really mind most of the hitting rules anyway since they only apply to hits on defenseless receivers, I was more worried of where it would lead to(hitting rules for guys running with it. It's not as if they say you can't light up a defenseless receiver anyway, only that you can't blast them in the helmet(it's dumb to go helmet-helmet anyway imo since there's just as much of a concussion risk for the one delivering the blow).

                        With pass interference/illegal contact rules, I think they're getting better about calling pass interference on the offensive guy more than they have been in the past, so it's becoming more equal between defense and offense. I would prefer a bit more of a 'let them play' type of approach, but not to the point of the 'dead ball era'. My main issue are penalties that make it easier for a receiver to try and draw a flag instead of trying to get the ball.

                        As far as getting the calls wrong though, well I think it may be overblown a bit how much it screws teams. In truth, it seems that usually when a play is reviewed the right call is usually made. It's rare that I look at a team and legitimately think that they got screwed out of a game, though there are a few times. GB-SEA of 2012 is the most obvious one, because that call literally decided the game. PIT-SEA Super Bowl is another, though we don't know if SEA wins all those bad calls in favor of PIT made it much tougher. That, and something like calling an illegal block on a player who was attempting a tackle(Hasselback off the Taylor INT) is so outrageous that I strongly wonder if the refs were trying to help PIT on purpose.

                        Most of the time though, it seems like fans who complain about it are being nit picky, and that they likely lose regardless of the penalty or not. The NE-CAR game last year for instance, the no call on the PI may have technically been wrong, but the pass is likely not caught whether Kuechley commits the penalty or not, so it didn't really bother me. If it's something like a drive maybe getting extended once due to a ticky tacky call, then saying you were screwed out of a win is likely a big reach, because you don't know what would have happened.

                        I have even seen fans try and claim that the Saints 09 ring is tainted because the refs missed some personal foul calls that would have extended Viking drives in the NFCC game that year, which is pretty ridiculous. Even if they did miss personal foul calls, it's still a bad reason IMO because your basically saying you should have won because you didn't get free yards from a penalty, and in this case if I remember correctly penalties that likely didn't actually impact the yardage the play gained.
                        Last edited by fallforward3y+; 10-18-2014, 01:01 AM.

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                        • #27
                          The fact that some have the opinion that the game is being ruined in and of itself means that the game is being ruined for some. The amount of people dissatisfied with the NFL is growing; but I am not sure it is outpacing new fans.

                          A lot of kids are being brought up on alternative sports and a lot of families are finding being an NFL fan can be expensive.

                          I too am finding my interest lately has fallen from previous peaks.
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                          • #28
                            I am sooooo disgusted by a call of PI on GB in which a defensive pick 6 was called back. The sports announcers, the fans, and everyone watching was questioning how in the world was that called a PI.

                            The defender was behind the WR and facing his back and as he caught it the defender knocked it out and it popped up and enabled Matthews to catch for the pick. The defender did not hold, or hamper the receiver from catching the ball. I wanted to break my tv. This is getting so ridiculous that I just want to turn the game off.
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                            • #29
                              I swear, if this weekend was any indication of what's to come from these playoffs this season, the Broncos better be ready to beat their opponents by 20. And thank god we're at home for at least 1 game.

                              Oh and if the NFL has the stones to schedule Bill Vinovich's crew to any of the Broncos' games this post-season, I'm going to write a letter. (lot bigtime threat aint it)

                              I'd like to see South Park do an episode on Bill Vinovich. They'd tear him apart - and Broncos fans would rejoice.
                              The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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