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  • Originally posted by Rancid View Post
    You serious?
    Yes, absolutely serious. There is no good evidence that they would have won if they had called a run up the gut to Lynch. We only know that the play call didn't work, because it was poorly executed.

    The play had a reasonable chance of working if it was executed well. A play not working doesn't mean it's a bad call.

    The 'captain hindsight' nonsense I was referring to is judging a decision made before it was known that the play wouldn't work, acting like they should have been able to predict that it would be poorly executed.
    Last edited by fallforward3y+; 02-02-2015, 08:04 PM.

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    • Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
      Yes, absolutely serious. There is no good evidence that they would have won if they had called a run up the gut to Lynch. We only know that the play call didn't work, because it was poorly executed.

      The play had a reasonable chance of working if it was executed well. A play not working doesn't mean it's a bad call.

      The 'captain hindsight' nonsense I was referring to is judging a decision made before it was known that the play wouldn't work, acting like they should have been able to predict that it would be poorly executed.
      Cmon dude lynch ran all over them all game....you don't need hindsight to see that from the 1 yard line giving it to the best back in football that year is the play to go....

      Everyone from deion sanders to emmith Smith is saying it was the worst call ever...
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      • Maybe the Seahawks were afraid that the fifteen yard penalty from Lynch's johnson grab would give the Communists a chance to kick a field goal. Or maybe the gerbil running on the wheel powering Pete Carroll's brain had to take a dump. One of the two.

        I'm just glad I didn't watch until the very end. We can finally put a bullet in the head of the 2014 NFL Season.

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        • Originally posted by canadiansbronco View Post
          Cmon dude lynch ran all over them all game....you don't need hindsight to see that from the 1 yard line giving it to the best back in football that year is the play to go....

          Everyone from deion sanders to emmith Smith is saying it was the worst call ever...
          You should know better than to compare normal running plays to short yardage running plays. They are saying it was the worst call ever because play calling is overrated and execution is underrated, analysts being dramatic isn't exactly a surprise to me.

          And he didn't exactly 'run all over them' that seems a bit dramatic, he had 4.2 ypc, they seemed to play him fairly well most of the time, but with enough carries your likely to get to 100 yards imo.

          He did play fairly well though, and made some good runs when he had space....when he had space being the key word imo. I can't take any claim seriously that advocates giving it to a back in short yardage as the right call due to their success when running in non short yardage situations, it's like comparing apples and oranges imo.

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          • Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.
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            • Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
              You should know better than to compare normal running plays to short yardage running plays. They are saying it was the worst call ever because play calling is overrated and execution is underrated, analysts being dramatic isn't exactly a surprise to me.

              And he didn't exactly 'run all over them' that seems a bit dramatic, he had 4.2 ypc, they seemed to play him fairly well most of the time, but with enough carries your likely to get to 100 yards imo.

              He did play fairly well though, and made some good runs when he had space....when he had space being the key word imo. I can't take any claim seriously that advocates giving it to a back in short yardage as the right call due to their success when running in non short yardage situations, it's like comparing apples and oranges imo.
              I just dont see how you are not seeing they made the wrong call, the whole football word is.... If they where going to pass at least go for a fade where only you guy can get it....

              Anyway, i am not going to argue this haha i was just happy to see shermans stupid face when wilson got picked
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              • First I attributed it to the second time out called......after the whacky reception. That time out was like gold. Two timeouts and four downs was almost a given, with Lynch and Wilson.

                Then I attributed to the fact that I was pulling for Seattle for the first time in years, only because I have a heavy duty disdain for The Pats (but I'm in goooooood company).

                Finally, I realized that the real reason Seattle messed up that series, was.........

                "karma"

                Because after The Pack game, I figured Seattle had used up all its "gift certificates".

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                • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                  First I attributed it to the second time out called......after the whacky reception. That time out was like gold. Two timeouts and four downs was almost a given, with Lynch and Wilson.

                  Then I attributed to the fact that I was pulling for Seattle for the first time in years, only because I have a heavy duty disdain for The Pats (but I'm in goooooood company).

                  Finally, I realized that the real reason Seattle messed up that series, was.........

                  "karma"

                  Because after The Pack game, I figured Seattle had used up all its "gift certificates".
                  Watch the Saints 2009 season, believe me a team can ride lucky 'gift certificates' for a very long time. They were a very good team, don't get me wrong but they were INSANELY lucky also it seemed. The Vikings gave them 5 turnovers....people remember Favre getting knocked around but there was not a single turnover MN had that was the result of pressure. Also the ball bouncing out of Baskett's hands, and the pick 6 from Peyton.

                  I remember their game vs ATL in 2010 where the ending seemed like karma. That game probably never goes to OT without a muffed punt that bounces off of the back of a Falcons player DeCoud who wasn't looking, and then in OT NO misses a 29 yard field goal. That may have been the biggest instance of 'football karma' I have ever seen.

                  I agree that the time out is the biggest reason for why it happened that way, and that the Seahawks had been very lucky up to that point. I doubt karma caused them to take a TO, lol but they had even been lucky in the Super Bowl.

                  That 29 second drive was impressive by them, however it was also an epic collapse by NE's defense, probably even worse than GB's defense collapsed at the end of the NFCC game. If not for NE seemingly being in 'half time mode' they probably don't even get a FG there, and if not for a facemask they probably don't get a TD. Also the boneheaded pick Brady threw after a great drive. NE had outplayed SEA significantly for most of the first half IMO but at the end of the half it was tied. It did seem like SEA was lucky to be in that game imo.

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                  • Originally posted by canadiansbronco View Post
                    I just dont see how you are not seeing they made the wrong call, the whole football word is.... If they where going to pass at least go for a fade where only you guy can get it....

                    Anyway, i am not going to argue this haha i was just happy to see shermans stupid face when wilson got picked
                    I think the football world is blowing it out of proportion, and it seems very 'captain hindsight' like to me. I could see your point about a fade to the back of the end zone, but that isn't what most people seem to be focusing on, plus I don't think it's big enough to be blown up like this.

                    I did however, LOVE the look on Sherman's face, and I love it even more after hearing about how he started talking about how Brady was losing his heart during the game. EPIC!

                    I don't mind some cockiness, and in truth I would expect some out of a great player, but he's to the point where it starts to get annoying imo, so it was particularly funny to watch that happen to me.

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                    • I don't agree that "the play did not cost them the game" because it did. Look at the effort Lynch put out all afternoon and he was really close to the goal line on the 1st down play. Here is where I think they screwed up; after Lynch was stopped at the 1, they should have hurried to the line, snapped the ball and given it to Lynch and he would have scored. NE wouldn't have had time to put in their goal line defense and it is a safe play. If it doesn't work then they can use their time out and set up play action with a bootleg. What about leaving too much time? They have the #1 defense in the NFL and should have been able to hold. Carroll and Bevell called all kind of gimmick plays to get to the super bowl when they were behind, but when you get to the 1 yard line you go with what got you there, Lynch running the ball and defense. They had no business calling what they did and they aren't renigging now, but you have to wonder how the players feel, especially Lynch.

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                      • Originally posted by trc1962 View Post
                        I don't agree that "the play did not cost them the game" because it did. Look at the effort Lynch put out all afternoon and he was really close to the goal line on the 1st down play. Here is where I think they screwed up; after Lynch was stopped at the 1, they should have hurried to the line, snapped the ball and given it to Lynch and he would have scored. NE wouldn't have had time to put in their goal line defense and it is a safe play. If it doesn't work then they can use their time out and set up play action with a bootleg. What about leaving too much time? They have the #1 defense in the NFL and should have been able to hold. Carroll and Bevell called all kind of gimmick plays to get to the super bowl when they were behind, but when you get to the 1 yard line you go with what got you there, Lynch running the ball and defense. They had no business calling what they did and they aren't renigging now, but you have to wonder how the players feel, especially Lynch.
                        People who keep arguing about Lynch's game seem to be missing the point. No matter how much it is ignored, it doesn't change that goal line situations are different imo. There are likely backs who average over 5 yards a carry that would be terrible in goal line situations.

                        What got you there shouldn't be taken into account imo, it's about what play call is best for the situation. It was the 1 yard line, you don't have to be a pass happy offense to be able to complete a 1 yard pass. Throwing the ball was more likely to allow them more opportunities if their first play ended up failing.

                        It is not for certain whether or not Lynch would have scored, saying otherwise imo is just a bunch of 'captain hindsight' nonsense after knowing the play that was called wasn't executed well.

                        The Seahawks ran Lynch twice in short yardage situations earlier in the game...neither were converted. This idea people seem to have that running Lynch would have been automatic seems very misguided. The Pats have Vince Wilfork in the middle, I wouldn't say it's crazy to think they would have stopped him, especially when they had already done it twice in the game in a situation.

                        Ironically, the argument of how his game had gone so far actually goes against calling a short yardage run imo, despite that many people seemingly are trying to use it as an argument for calling it.

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                        • Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
                          People who keep arguing about Lynch's game seem to be missing the point. No matter how much it is ignored, it doesn't change that goal line situations are different imo. There are likely backs who average over 5 yards a carry that would be terrible in goal line situations.

                          What got you there shouldn't be taken into account imo, it's about what play call is best for the situation. It was the 1 yard line, you don't have to be a pass happy offense to be able to complete a 1 yard pass. Throwing the ball was more likely to allow them more opportunities if their first play ended up failing.

                          It is not for certain whether or not Lynch would have scored, saying otherwise imo is just a bunch of 'captain hindsight' nonsense after knowing the play that was called wasn't executed well.

                          The Seahawks ran Lynch twice in short yardage situations earlier in the game...neither were converted. This idea people seem to have that running Lynch would have been automatic seems very misguided. The Pats have Vince Wilfork in the middle, I wouldn't say it's crazy to think they would have stopped him, especially when they had already done it twice in the game in a situation.

                          Ironically, the argument of how his game had gone so far actually goes against calling a short yardage run imo, despite that many people seemingly are trying to use it as an argument for calling it.







                          Get your point and its certainly valid. However, if you look back on the play even if the reciever makes the catch he is not getting in and you have to waste the timeout. I get that somewhere in the next 3 plays you probably mix in a pass especially with only 1 timeout left. I even get that 2nd down might be a good down for it. But to throw a pass where there a are 3 of their guys and one of yours has to get there (and not your best players at that), imo horrible call. You could have had Lynch in backfield, faked to him and let wilson go out on bootleg then either run it in, throw to reciever coming open where only he could get it, or throw it 5 yards in the stands. Thats where Wilson is at his best, its well known he has problems in the pocket and instead thats where you put him and give him a play he is not use too ? Could have run pass play that worked earlier with your tall reciever and thrown it to him 1 on 1 where only he was going to cathch it. Coulda run a fade and thrown it up 1 on 1 where your guy gets it or no one does. You coulda just given it too Lynch, they hadn't stopped him yet and that D was tired and deflated, and if he didn't score, the Patriots probably call a time out there. You coulda done a lot of things. But throwing it in the middle into a crowd of Patriots where your guy wasn't even there yet and was out numbered and wason't going to score if he had caught it was just a horrible play call in that scenario. Especially with the SB on the line. It sucks for all involved cause it was a gutsy call at end of first half by the same people and that was a great call. But no matter how you want to sugar coat it, even if you believe the pass was a good call on that down, that play WAS NOT.
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                          • i agree totally with fallforward.

                            everyone wants to jump on the badwagon and blame the play call rather than the decision to throw it in the first place or the fact that his guy was open but the patriot player made a great play.

                            no you do not know they would have punched it in without a doubt had they fed it to lynch. and if he would have caught that ball? what would people be saying then? that it was a great call of course!

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                            • Originally posted by FL BRONCO View Post
                              Get your point and its certainly valid. However, if you look back on the play even if the reciever makes the catch he is not getting in and you have to waste the timeout. I get that somewhere in the next 3 plays you probably mix in a pass especially with only 1 timeout left. I even get that 2nd down might be a good down for it. But to throw a pass where there a are 3 of their guys and one of yours has to get there (and not your best players at that), imo horrible call. You could have had Lynch in backfield, faked to him and let wilson go out on bootleg then either run it in, throw to reciever coming open where only he could get it, or throw it 5 yards in the stands. Thats where Wilson is at his best, its well known he has problems in the pocket and instead thats where you put him and give him a play he is not use too ? Could have run pass play that worked earlier with your tall reciever and thrown it to him 1 on 1 where only he was going to cathch it. Coulda run a fade and thrown it up 1 on 1 where your guy gets it or no one does. You coulda just given it too Lynch, they hadn't stopped him yet and that D was tired and deflated, and if he didn't score, the Patriots probably call a time out there. You coulda done a lot of things. But throwing it in the middle into a crowd of Patriots where your guy wasn't even there yet and was out numbered and wason't going to score if he had caught it was just a horrible play call in that scenario. Especially with the SB on the line. It sucks for all involved cause it was a gutsy call at end of first half by the same people and that was a great call. But no matter how you want to sugar coat it, even if you believe the pass was a good call on that down, that play WAS NOT.
                              If it's being criticized for not being a different kind of pass, that's one thing. However, the guy may have scored if he had caught it. Plus, you said they hadn't stopped Lynch yet, but the thing is that they had...twice in a short yardage situation.

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                              • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                                i agree totally with fallforward.

                                everyone wants to jump on the badwagon and blame the play call rather than the decision to throw it in the first place or the fact that his guy was open but the patriot player made a great play.

                                no you do not know they would have punched it in without a doubt had they fed it to lynch. and if he would have caught that ball? what would people be saying then? that it was a great call of course!
                                Bingo. It was one thing to criticize it when it first happened, but after thinking about it it seems a bit asinine for the call to warrant this kind of criticism.

                                Your probably right, the call would likely not get very much criticism if the pass was completed. IMO it should only get criticized if it had slim chances of working, and it didn't imo. If a play call is good when it works, it is good when it doesn't. I think a sign of how play calling is at times overrated, and that execution is at times underrated.

                                People call Sean Payton's onside kick call in the Super Bowl against the Colts some brilliant call, but really it was terrible imo. However, sometimes a team gets lucky, Baskett bobbled the ball and people say it was a genius call.

                                Baskett catching it or not catching it doesn't relate to anything the Saints did imo, so it seems asinine to me to attribute it to some genius of Sean Payton.
                                Last edited by fallforward3y+; 02-05-2015, 07:16 PM.

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