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  • fallforward3y+
    replied
    Originally posted by Larryh View Post
    It is my opinion that most people understand that the Rice's and the Randle's are very much in the minority in the NFL. I think it has been the ineffective and inconsistent response by the NFL that has created as much bad press as the actual acts themselves. Until the NFL shows some real leadership, these incidences will continue to be overblown and over analyzed. Just my opinion.
    There isn't much I would expect them to do about Randle right now without much evidence of his guilt, but that's something you and I have already debated about. With Rice, I think they should have gone with 6 games first because they apparently did actually have it on tape, but honestly I have a hard time believing that there would have been much less press if they had.

    The NBA handed out what was pretty much the maximum punishment for Sterling, and that was still talked about for a very long time. I think it has more to do with people expecting football players to be these super duper role models for children, and/or feeling that they somehow owe them something in terms of proving that they live up to their standards of conduct because they get paid to play football.

    Very few, if any corporations would likely be held to the standard that the NFL is in terms of their reaction. If someone high up on the corporate ladder of Pizza Hut was charged with DV, and the CEO did absolutely nothing to punish him, I very much doubt many people would care. I also doubt there would be pressure on Pizza Hut employees to set some great example and prove what upstanding citizens they are. In truth, if you buoycott pretty much any big business over a lack of ethical integrity somewhere within it, you'd probably be living in the forest.

    No one seems to be disputing that most guys in the NFL are good character guys, so they are probably already doing things that should be helping the reputation of the league. When people start acting like guys need to do more just because the NFL's image is bad, it seems a bit ridiculous. They are expecting more of them than to just have good character, it seems unreasonable.

    I think people get too wrapped up in this idealistic golden boy/super hero view of an athlete sometimes. It isn't a football players' responsibility to be this super duper role model, I would only expect them to be a decent person.

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  • Larryh
    replied
    Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    Indeed, it's just because it's the type of guy they want to be. They probably expect the person they do it for to be appreciative, but that's about it. I think it's good to remember the spirit of it, because if you start expecting too much to come from your actions, you'll likely be disappointed.

    I guess that's the root of my point, is that someone shouldn't feel responsible for changing anyone's opinion of their image. After all, if you give money to research for a disease, people could say you only did it for the recognition or something of that sort. You don't have to convince them of anything, you don't owe them that.

    I'm not accusing you of thinking the NFL is full of mostly bad guys, but what you said just reminded me of these points since I do feel that some people judge the entire NFL based off of the actions of a small percentage of players.
    It is my opinion that most people understand that the Rice's and the Randle's are very much in the minority in the NFL. I think it has been the ineffective and inconsistent response by the NFL that has created as much bad press as the actual acts themselves. Until the NFL shows some real leadership, these incidences will continue to be overblown and over analyzed. Just my opinion.

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  • fallforward3y+
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yeah, guys who do good things and who are great guys will do good things because that's just who they are and not because they are trying to look good. It's a natural part of their character.
    Indeed, it's just because it's the type of guy they want to be. They probably expect the person they do it for to be appreciative, but that's about it. I think it's good to remember the spirit of it, because if you start expecting too much to come from your actions, you'll likely be disappointed.

    I guess that's the root of my point, is that someone shouldn't feel responsible for changing anyone's opinion of their image. After all, if you give money to research for a disease, people could say you only did it for the recognition or something of that sort. You don't have to convince them of anything, you don't owe them that.

    I'm not accusing you of thinking the NFL is full of mostly bad guys, but what you said just reminded me of these points since I do feel that some people judge the entire NFL based off of the actions of a small percentage of players.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    I didn't mean to imply you thought that, I just think a lot of people do. My main point was basically that the NFL's image will probably always be bad if people focus more on bad things players do. Essentially, I think how people react when they hear these things is probably worse for the image.

    Like you said, most NFL players are probably stand up guys. Most people in general to me seem fairly 'decent' as well, but there will likely be some people who aren't. Some of them will also likely be football players. The day where there are no guys in the NFL that engage in 'bad behavior' will likely never come, so if a few guys doing those things makes the NFL have a bad image it will likely always have one, unless people change their attitude and look more at how most NFL players are, instead of focusing on the bad.

    It's good for NFL Players to do good things, but for the sake of the good thing. If they do it to try and clean up the NFL's image, they likely won't go very far. 15 players could do all kinds of work to save lives, help out starving African children, get kids out of gangs, hold charities to help tutor kids, charities to help fight diseases, dedicate time to hold football camps and etc., and 1 Ray Rice or Aaron Hernandez would likely erase all that in the eye of the public and it would be back to 'the NFL is full of thugs'. That's assuming people would even hear about the charity work that the players did.

    I don't think you would think that, but I think a lot of people would.

    I think they should try and be good guys, but not for the purpose of changing peoples' opinions of the NFL's image. You can only control your own character, most guys are probably already showing good character. It isn't their responsibility to try and convince people the NFL is full of good guys, imo they should just worry about whether or not they are showing good character.
    Yeah, guys who do good things and who are great guys will do good things because that's just who they are and not because they are trying to look good. It's a natural part of their character.

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  • fallforward3y+
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Now, I'm not sure if you were responding to me in thinking I'm singling the NFL out for their "bad behavior" for lack of a better word. If you were you know by now that I work in the field of rape and sexual assault and domestic violence which means that I'm aware that this happens outside the NFL.

    The ONLY thing I meant was that I just happened to take a cursory look at the titles of all these threads in this section and was like "damn, this isn't good." So, please stop acting like I was making all these grand presumptions, assumptions or judgments for Pete's sake because that's all it was.

    No assumptions, no presumptions, no labeling, not thinking all players are doing it, not thinking it only happens in the NFL, not even assuming this kid is guilty. Only looked at all these thread titles and said, damn, this doesn't look good. Jeez, look at all these threads. Period. End of story.

    I know most players are stand up, all around great guys who do great things. But let's get real. Just because not all players are committing these crimes, or just because only a small percentage of these guys are committing these crimes, doesn't mean there isn't a problem within the NFL. If there wasn't, the NFL wouldn't be putting so much emphasis and resources to deal with it. And there are many players who agree that the NFL has a problem, even if only a small percentage of guys are committing these crimes and if it also happens outside of the NFL. And remember, the threads also included guys getting into trouble for substance abuse issues, DUI's etc, and not just sexual assault and domestic violence.

    So,if that football player who won the Sportsman of the year is concerned with the image of the NFL then to me, that says something. I'm glad he is asking his fellow brethren to step up and try to do something about it.
    I didn't mean to imply you thought that, I just think a lot of people do. My main point was basically that the NFL's image will probably always be bad if people focus more on bad things players do. Essentially, I think how people react when they hear these things is probably worse for the image.

    Like you said, most NFL players are probably stand up guys. Most people in general to me seem fairly 'decent' as well, but there will likely be some people who aren't. Some of them will also likely be football players. The day where there are no guys in the NFL that engage in 'bad behavior' will likely never come, so if a few guys doing those things makes the NFL have a bad image it will likely always have one, unless people change their attitude and look more at how most NFL players are, instead of focusing on the bad.

    It's good for NFL Players to do good things, but for the sake of the good thing. If they do it to try and clean up the NFL's image, they likely won't go very far. 15 players could do all kinds of work to save lives, help out starving African children, get kids out of gangs, hold charities to help tutor kids, charities to help fight diseases, dedicate time to hold football camps and etc., and 1 Ray Rice or Aaron Hernandez would likely erase all that in the eye of the public and it would be back to 'the NFL is full of thugs'. That's assuming people would even hear about the charity work that the players did.

    I don't think you would think that, but I think a lot of people would.

    I think they should try and be good guys, but not for the purpose of changing peoples' opinions of the NFL's image. You can only control your own character, most guys are probably already showing good character. It isn't their responsibility to try and convince people the NFL is full of good guys, imo they should just worry about whether or not they are showing good character.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I'm not criticizing, just saying I don't think the NFL has a problem and the media blows things out of proportion like usual.

    The replies stemmed from you quoting that person saying 'let's take our NFL and start doing things right' and you put..... 'couldn't agree more'
    I gotcha, the media does thrive on negative stuff. But I did like what he said and it seemed like his peers did as well since he got a huge applause for it.

    But at the same time I do agree that most players are great guys who do great things who don't get the media attention for what they do which is a shame.

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  • bronx_2003
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    I just don't understand why this keeps getting brought up. Who is saying this? I'm not. Who is saying or expecting crime to stop? Never said that at all. This whole thing started because I simply took a cursory look at the title of threads in this section and commented by saying, this doesn't look good.

    Never made the comment that it happens more in the NFL, never made the comment that it's a high percentage of guys, never made the comment that it's happening more than before, never made the comment that it doesn't happen outside the NFL. Just simply made the comment after seeing all the story lines in this section that things didn't look good and I was glad that the player who won the Sportsman of the Year called upon the players to change the image and to be known for better things.
    I'm not criticizing, just saying I don't think the NFL has a problem and the media blows things out of proportion like usual.

    The replies stemmed from you quoting that person saying 'let's take our NFL and start doing things right' and you put..... 'couldn't agree more'

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Its a very small percentage when considering how many players/people work in the NFL. The vast majority do a lot of good work.

    Expecting crime to stop completely is not realistic.

    There's not more crime in the league then any other decade.... there's just more media exposure
    I just don't understand why this keeps getting brought up. Who is saying this? I'm not. Who is saying or expecting crime to stop? Never said that at all. This whole thing started because I simply took a cursory look at the title of threads in this section and commented by saying, this doesn't look good.

    Never made the comment that it happens more in the NFL, never made the comment that it's a high percentage of guys, never made the comment that it's happening more than before, never made the comment that it doesn't happen outside the NFL. Just simply made the comment after seeing all the story lines in this section that things didn't look good and I was glad that the player who won the Sportsman of the Year called upon the players to change the image and to be known for better things.

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  • Larryh
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yup, good point. Thanks for clarifying. It is sad that not more positive stories are highlighted cause so many of the players do great things and we don't know about them.
    But all you have to do is look at this forum and you will see that in spades. There are always good stories posted on here that are important and meaningful but they will at the most get 5 to 10 postings and then they fade away, but if you post something negative about anyone, those threads can go on for months. Even the positive threads are often hijacked and turn negative in the blink of an eye. It is not just the media unfortunately, it seems to be pervasive throughout our world. Everyone knows it is easier to tear someone down than it is to build someone up.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
    Yes I'm not saying they aren't there. I'm saying there are good stories out there also but the media chooses not to cover those stories so these negative ones look worse since these are the ones that get covered. If 1 bad story happens and that is all that is covered until the next bad story happens it does look bad but if all the good stories are covered the focus wouldn't be on the negatives ones as much.

    But negativity sells and the positives ones don't so therefore they will keep reporting on the negative ones including reporting on claims and accusations which may or may not be true. The media does blow things up to be first to report and people run with them. You said we needed more positive stories in the news and that was were my response was originally targeting. They are there the media just doesn't want to report on them since they don't get the same number of clicks as the negative press.
    Yup, good point. Thanks for clarifying. It is sad that not more positive stories are highlighted cause so many of the players do great things and we don't know about them.

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  • bronx_2003
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    But they are still stories nonetheless
    Its a very small percentage when considering how many players/people work in the NFL. The vast majority do a lot of good work.

    Expecting crime to stop completely is not realistic.

    There's not more crime in the league then any other decade.... there's just more media exposure

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  • #87Birdman
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    But they are still stories nonetheless. It's not like these guys weren't arrested for DUIs, substance abuse, sexual assault, DV, animal abuse, and getting suspensions.

    Again, the majority of the players are upstanding guys who do great things on and off the field, but having these news articles about players in the NFL is not like it's all a function of the media, they're there because it happened.
    Yes I'm not saying they aren't there. I'm saying there are good stories out there also but the media chooses not to cover those stories so these negative ones look worse since these are the ones that get covered. If 1 bad story happens and that is all that is covered until the next bad story happens it does look bad but if all the good stories are covered the focus wouldn't be on the negatives ones as much.

    But negativity sells and the positives ones don't so therefore they will keep reporting on the negative ones including reporting on claims and accusations which may or may not be true. The media does blow things up to be first to report and people run with them. You said we needed more positive stories in the news and that was were my response was originally targeting. They are there the media just doesn't want to report on them since they don't get the same number of clicks as the negative press.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
    I think the problem with this is the media. Bad news sells more than good news. Seeing someone busted for a crime will get you more hits than 3 feel good stories about the good things that they do. I feel this is more on the media than the league. Are these things bad? Yes, but the media blows it up to run with these stories.
    But they are still stories nonetheless. It's not like these guys weren't arrested for DUIs, substance abuse, sexual assault, DV, animal abuse, and getting suspensions.

    Again, the majority of the players are upstanding guys who do great things on and off the field, but having these news articles about players in the NFL is not like it's all a function of the media, they're there because it happened.
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 02-09-2015, 08:06 AM.

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  • #87Birdman
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Man, when you look at the titles of these threads in this section, it doesn't look very good...domestic violence, sexual assault, drug charges, suspensions, and what have you. I really liked what that kid said who received the sportmanship award during the Honors Show...let's take our NFL and start doing things right. We need to stop having these stories in the media, and have stories that show the better side of us...or something like that. Couldn't agree more.
    I think the problem with this is the media. Bad news sells more than good news. Seeing someone busted for a crime will get you more hits than 3 feel good stories about the good things that they do. I feel this is more on the media than the league. Are these things bad? Yes, but the media blows it up to run with these stories.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
    I guess we'll see how the investigation goes, to see if we find good evidence of his guilt. I do think it would be a good idea to highlight good things NFL Players do, because I think people forget that the majority of these guys have never been arrested for any sort of violent and/or sexual crime. Vince Wilfork pulled a guy out of a car in a wreck I believe, but we didn't hear as much about that.

    However, I would attribute the NFL's bad reputation more to the way people react when someone in the NFL is charged with a crime, in terms of acting like most NFL players commit the crime they were accused of. From what I've heard, when you look at the percentage of NFL players who have actually committed violent and/or sexual crimes, it's not all that shocking imo.

    Sure, it would be nice to have none at all, but singling out the NFL seems a bit ridiculous when from what I hear they don't have a higher percentage of offenders than most other professions.

    The NFL's image will probably never change until people stop putting athletes on a pedastal. I wish no one ever committed these types of crimes, however people do commit them, and it will probably always be that way. There will probably always be some pro athletes who do these things.

    If people label all NFL Players by what a few of them do, it's unfair. If an NFL player commits a violent crime, committing that crime is their fault. However, if people assume most NFL players commit that crime because of 1 player committing it, that's their fault for making a bad presumption. The player who committed the crime is responsible for their crime, not bad presumptions others make because of it.

    People should be held accountable for their own bad presumptions. I think it's good for NFL players to do good things, however not for the sake of trying to change a bad image of players that's likely based off of faulty presumptions.
    Now, I'm not sure if you were responding to me in thinking I'm singling the NFL out for their "bad behavior" for lack of a better word. If you were you know by now that I work in the field of rape and sexual assault and domestic violence which means that I'm aware that this happens outside the NFL.

    The ONLY thing I meant was that I just happened to take a cursory look at the titles of all these threads in this section and was like "damn, this isn't good." So, please stop acting like I was making all these grand presumptions, assumptions or judgments for Pete's sake because that's all it was.

    No assumptions, no presumptions, no labeling, not thinking all players are doing it, not thinking it only happens in the NFL, not even assuming this kid is guilty. Only looked at all these thread titles and said, damn, this doesn't look good. Jeez, look at all these threads. Period. End of story.

    I know most players are stand up, all around great guys who do great things. But let's get real. Just because not all players are committing these crimes, or just because only a small percentage of these guys are committing these crimes, doesn't mean there isn't a problem within the NFL. If there wasn't, the NFL wouldn't be putting so much emphasis and resources to deal with it. And there are many players who agree that the NFL has a problem, even if only a small percentage of guys are committing these crimes and if it also happens outside of the NFL. And remember, the threads also included guys getting into trouble for substance abuse issues, DUI's etc, and not just sexual assault and domestic violence.

    So,if that football player who won the Sportsman of the year is concerned with the image of the NFL then to me, that says something. I'm glad he is asking his fellow brethren to step up and try to do something about it.
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 02-09-2015, 05:31 AM.

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