Montee Ball - Strangulation charge while still a Bronco

[Rastic]

If this is true I am also concerned about the connection to the team, coaches, etc.

The story is new and an investigation is absolutely warranted and as bad as the allegations are I would hate to learn the team knew and just cut and run.

[Bterres105]

Wasn't he arrested in February on domestic violence chrages?

This is a post I wouldn't wanna touch with a 20 foot poll. Really sensitive issue.

[RunningWolf]

I don't believe anyone here has said anything other than alleged.

My comment was "now we know why the Broncos dumped him and didn't look back", and all I mean by that is combined with his subpar performance, it makes sense now. They wanted out of the head that may have been coming.

"I understand that the NFL(or any organization, rally) is just a microcosm of society and the "real" world.. but... I don't understand putting hands on a woman in anger. Drunk or not. Just.... sigh....."

Thats an assumption that he did put his hands on her.

"well we all knew there was something going on with this guy why the Broncos cut him and why nobody else wanted to sign him"

That sounds like an assumption of guilt to me.

"It did seem kinda "fishy" when they dumped him"

What seems fishy is the timing of the allegation and the assumption of his guilt with no evidence. If evidence comes forward showing his guilt then throw the book at him. But don't convict the man before anything is even known. At this point its simply a woman making an accusation that happened many many months ago, allegedly.

[RunningWolf]

Did you not read the word "alleged"?

I said if the "alleged" story is true, he's in serious trouble. And I was pointing out "why" he is in serious trouble if it is.

I never said it was true. Never said I believed it. I don't have all the facts to make that kind of judgment. And you don't either. Meaning, you don't know it's false or that it's not true.

All you have is your own opinion. That's it. Do you know the answer to any of those questions you asked?

Do you know whether she sought medical help?

Do you know if she needed help out of the hotel?

Do you know who she told after this?

I don't. Do you?

I did read alleged. I also read how you described the seriousness of the allegation being linked to homicide. So before we even have any evidence of stangulation other than the supposed victims statement we are going to link Ball to potentially being a murderer? Seems quite a big jump to make before we really know anything.

And no I don't know the answers to those questions. Thats why I asked them. The point is is that NO ONE knows the answers yet but some are already going to make judgements??? Based on the allegation???

I still don't believe that she could have been picked up by her throat, off of the floor, choked out, woke up while being thrown out the door, and someone didn't call for an ambulance. She wouldnt have been able to just walk out right away.

[broncoslover115]

I did read alleged. I also read how you described the seriousness of the allegation being linked to homicide. So before we even have any evidence of stangulation other than the supposed victims statement we are going to link Ball to potentially being a murderer? Seems quite a big jump to make before we really know anything.

And no I don't know the answers to those questions. Thats why I asked them. The point is is that NO ONE knows the answers yet but some are already going to make judgements??? Based on the allegation???

I still don't believe that she could have been picked up by her throat, off of the floor, choked out, woke up while being thrown out the door, and someone didn't call for an ambulance. She wouldnt have been able to just walk out right away.

I was merely providing context here, not making a judgement as to guilt or innocence and trying to explain why he was charged with a felony instead of a misdemeanor.

Perhaps you don't know me as well as others here, but I am a trainer in this field and have been for over 30 years. I was trying to explain some background as to what happens when one is charged and strangulation is alleged to be involved and why states consider it to be serious.

He is being charged with a felony because of the strangulation charge. As I pointed out, states have increased the penalty when domestic violence includes strangulation because research has shown this to be a "predictive link" to homicide. The reason being that strangulation can lead to accidental death quickly... turning the strangulation into a homicide.

That does not mean that Montee will commit homicide in the future. That means that states believe that strangulation is a very serious act and thus, due to the seriousness of it, he is being charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. I was trying to educate and explain why. I was not judging. I was not assuming guilt. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

What you did not were see any comments made by me on his guilt or innocence. That would be irresponsible of me.

But I did see that in your comments. I find it ironic that you are telling people not to rush to judgment because we don't know all the information but you are the one rushing to judgment...your judgment - that she is lying.

It is just as unfair to assume her guilt or that she is lying or that this is false, as it is to assume that he did this when we have no facts or clear information to support those judgments.

Your judgments are merely based on your own bias and nothing more. They have no basis in fact. If she's lying, we will find out. If he did this, we will find out. And if the things that appear to be fishy are fishy, then we will find out those as well.

[flosstein]

All I know is that whether the charges stick or not, this young man's life is quickly spiraling out of control. This is sad to these these guys throwing everything away like this. I could even understand drugs better than domestic violence. Maybe the rush of toxic relationships is addictive like drugs. IDK, I just hope he gets it together someday.

[dizzolve]

One of his draft descriptions was killer instinct but I had no idea

[Frenchy180]

"I understand that the NFL(or any organization, rally) is just a microcosm of society and the "real" world.. but... I don't understand putting hands on a woman in anger. Drunk or not. Just.... sigh....."

Thats an assumption that he did put his hands on her.

No, it's not... it's a statement on the subject of domestic violence... Nowhere in this statement do I see "I don't understand why Montee Ball put his hands on a woman in anger" he's saying that he just can't understand the mindset you'd have to be in to do that.

"well we all knew there was something going on with this guy why the Broncos cut him and why nobody else wanted to sign him"

That sounds like an assumption of guilt to me.

There was something going on with him... He was being accused of a crime. Whether or not he did it, that is something that was going on with him at the time... No assumption of guilt in there to be seen.

"It did seem kinda "fishy" when they dumped him"

What seems fishy is the timing of the allegation and the assumption of his guilt with no evidence. If evidence comes forward showing his guilt then throw the book at him. But don't convict the man before anything is even known. At this point its simply a woman making an accusation that happened many many months ago, allegedly.

Nobody is convicting the man of doing this in this thread... Over the years I have seen many a thread here about so and so being accused of doing something illegal. This has been by far and away one of, if not THE most responsibly worded threads in that regard, by not only the thread originator, but also the responders.

[Grandpa]

I'm not a police investigator.
I'm not a forensics investigator.
I'm not a member of the bar (prosecutor, defense counsel, judge).
I've not been called to be on the jury that will hear the evidence.

I reserve judgment until the evidence is presented and make no assumptions as to guilt or innocence until that happens.

[haciendadad]

Wouldn't this thread best be put in the Broncos News Wire forum?

[RunningWolf]

I was merely providing context here, not making a judgement as to guilt or innocence and trying to explain why he was charged with a felony instead of a misdemeanor.

Perhaps you don't know me as well as others here, but I am a trainer in this field and have been for over 30 years. I was trying to explain some background as to what happens when one is charged and strangulation is alleged to be involved and why states consider it to be serious.

He is being charged with a felony because of the strangulation charge. As I pointed out, states have increased the penalty when domestic violence includes strangulation because research has shown this to be a "predictive link" to homicide. The reason being that strangulation can lead to accidental death quickly... turning the strangulation into a homicide.

That does not mean that Montee will commit homicide in the future. That means that states believe that strangulation is a very serious act and thus, due to the seriousness of it, he is being charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. I was trying to educate and explain why. I was not judging. I was not assuming guilt. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

What you did not were see any comments made by me on his guilt or innocence. That would be irresponsible of me.

But I did see that in your comments. I find it ironic that you are telling people not to rush to judgment because we don't know all the information but you are the one rushing to judgment...your judgment - that she is lying.

It is just as unfair to assume her guilt or that she is lying or that this is false, as it is to assume that he did this when we have no facts or clear information to support those judgments.

Your judgments are merely based on your own bias and nothing more. They have no basis in fact. If she's lying, we will find out. If he did this, we will find out. And if the things that appear to be fishy are fishy, then we will find out those as well.

I hear your point about my judgement call. But there is a difference. The difference is is that she isn't accused of the crime. She's making the accusation. Her side of the story is all we've heard.
I know people in my life who have been wrongly accused of rape and assault by crazy females who use the "seriousness" of the charge to ruin men's lives. One was a girl who's boyfriend found out about her sexcapades with 2 friends and suddenly it was rape. Another was a lunatic who decided that if my cousin wouldn't have her, she would ruin his life. Ruined a few years but in the end he won out.
So I'm probably a little jaded when it comes to stories like this. Just don't want to see anyone rush to judgement based solely on her word when her story seems fishy from the get go.

[broncoslover115]

I hear your point about my judgement call. But there is a difference. The difference is is that she isn't accused of the crime. She's making the accusation. Her side of the story is all we've heard.
I know people in my life who have been wrongly accused of rape and assault by crazy females who use the "seriousness" of the charge to ruin men's lives. One was a girl who's boyfriend found out about her sexcapades with 2 friends and suddenly it was rape. Another was a lunatic who decided that if my cousin wouldn't have her, she would ruin his life. Ruined a few years but in the end he won out.
So I'm probably a little jaded when it comes to stories like this. Just don't want to see anyone rush to judgement based solely on her word when her story seems fishy from the get go.

Well I'm glad that you can admit your bias. I think you have to be careful assuming that just because it happened to your friend it doesn't mean that it's happening here as well. Unfortunately the story itself has provided very little information all around so none of us know all the facts.

And some of those missing pieces that you call fishy, might not be. We just don't know the rest of the story. However, I will say that some of her actions can seem quite plausible based on the research literature and some may not be.

Based on the research that has been conducted, not everyone who has been strangled seeks or even thinks they need medical attention. That determination will depend on the length of time they were held, whether they have incurred injury, and how long they were “out.” Unconsciousness can happen in seconds and they can come back immediately.

And per research, external signs of strangulation are absent in over half of all victims, even when examined by skilled medical personnel. And, not everyone who has been strangled even show any symptoms right away and are often overlooked because the signs and symptoms can be subtle. Which is why it has taken States so long to increase the penalties for it because medical personnel, law enforcement and the victims themselves didn’t know what to look for or report.

Let me say this. I really hope this isn't true. Because if it is, he has some serious issues and he is in some deep hot water due to the increased penalties that he is facing. And because this is the 2nd allegation that has been brought against him. So regardless, something clearly is going on with the guy.

So let's see how this all pans out before we rush to judgment on either end. I think that's the most responsible thing any of us can do.

[RunningWolf]

Based on the research that has been conducted, not everyone who has been strangled seeks or even thinks they need medical attention. That determination will depend on the length of time they were held, whether they have incurred injury, and how long they were “out.” Unconsciousness can happen in seconds and they can come back immediately.

And per research, external signs of strangulation are absent in over half of all victims, even when examined by skilled medical personnel. And, not everyone who has been strangled even show any symptoms right away and are often overlooked because the signs and symptoms can be subtle. Which is why it has taken States so long to increase the penalties for it because medical personnel, law enforcement and the victims themselves didn’t know what to look for or report.

Where does this information come from?

[broncoslover115]

Where does this information come from?

Well from different sources. I would be willing to give you some links but before I do I need to know why you want to know. Are you really interested in learning more and trying to understand or are you just trying to see if I really know what I am talking about and hoping to prove me wrong?

Because if it's the latter I am not going to get show you where I got it from because it would be a waste of my time.

[RunningWolf]

Well from different sources. I would be willing to give you some links but before I do I need to know why you want to know. Are you really interested in learning more and trying to understand or are you just trying to see if I really know what I am talking about and hoping to prove me wrong?

Because if it's the latter I am not going to get show you where I got it from because it would be a waste of my time.

Im not interested in trying to prove you wrong. I have no basis of knowledge on the subject to even consider you are wrong. Just wondering where the information came from. Did you read it on the internet? Is it related to your line of work?
Ive never really heard anyone talk about strangulation meaning something more than just "regular" physical abuse. Your information made it seem similar to the link between serial killers and animal cruelty as a child.