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You’re working harder to defend a Raider than I would normally be inclined to do.����
I put the research effort in when he was still a coaching candidate and when I thought VJ might be fired after the season. I wanted all the facts about what he accomplished and to know whether he could fix our offense. Based on what he did in Oakland, I'd say yes, if we gave him a good QB. It worked when he had Gannon, and it would probably work with Cousins. He ran a West Coast Offense which I like and it will probably be an improved variant that includes a bunch of things he learned in the last nine years while studying teams.
I don't respect the Raiders franchise of course, but I acknowledge and respect Gruden's abilities and those of Derek Carr, and I see them as a threat together, not a trifle to be dismissed and underestimated -except maybe in smack! Know and study your enemies!
Sorry Lee I thought you meant in each of his last six seasons --three of them were actually above .500. I posted a lot of facts about Gruden in post #24 of this thread if you missed it.
But you can't just cherry-pick only one section of his career expecting that to be an accurate assessment of his capabilities and then call him "mediocre". He didn't start coaching in 2003, he coached for 11 seasons starting in 1998 and he is 95-81 .540. with one SB win under his belt. People like to say the SB win was all because of Dungy's D but Gruden got that offense to be productive in the playoffs (even blowing out opponents), something Dungy could never do.
There are also deeper reasons behind the slide in standings after that Superbowl, like the salary cap disaster, loss of players, loss of draft picks because of the trade from Oakland, constant injuries to key players, and no stability at QB (Johnson, Griese, Simms, Garcia, etc.). Those factors aren't his fault and the owner/VP of the Bucs admitted that publically. It's also why the Bucs made overtures to get Gruden back a couple of months ago, because they haven't had a winning season with a playoff appearance since he left! And the Raiders wouldn't have hired him back making him the second-highest paid person in the NFL after Goodell if he was just average!
Fair enough, I guess.
You’re working harder to defend a Raider than I would normally be inclined to do.����
Just checked Stephen A. Smith’s facts. He is right. Last six seasons with the bucks he was 45-51 in the regular season. He was there for seven seasons.
Sorry Lee I thought you meant in each of his last six seasons --three of them were actually above .500. I posted a lot of facts about Gruden in post #24 of this thread if you missed it.
But you can't just cherry-pick only one section of his career expecting that to be an accurate assessment of his capabilities and then call him "mediocre". He didn't start coaching in 2003, he coached for 11 seasons starting in 1998 and he is 95-81 .540. with one SB win under his belt. People like to say the SB win was all because of Dungy's D but Gruden got that offense to be productive in the playoffs (even blowing out opponents), something Dungy could never do.
There are also deeper reasons behind the slide in standings after that Superbowl, like the salary cap disaster, loss of players, loss of draft picks because of the trade from Oakland, constant injuries to key players, and no stability at QB (Johnson, Griese, Simms, Garcia, etc.). Those factors aren't his fault and the owner/VP of the Bucs admitted that publically. It's also why the Bucs made overtures to get Gruden back a couple of months ago, because they haven't had a winning season with a playoff appearance since he left! And the Raiders wouldn't have hired him back making him the second-highest paid person in the NFL after Goodell if he was just average!
It'll be interesting to see what his contract actually looks like. Today it was reported that the first 5 year he'll be paid $5 million per season, and the final 5 years he'll get $15 million per season. Surely the Raiders have an opt out clause? If not they're insane!
The final 5 years thing is big for two reasons: 1. If he's still with the team Nevada has no state tax. 2. If he's not with the team, and there's no opt out clause, then it'll fall under the offset rules, which means if he's coaching elsewhere the Raiders will get dollar for dollar credit on what he's owed each year, so they'll only be on the hook for the overage. But regardless he'll be making $15 million for those 5 years.
That's smart then if they do. If he can't get it done in 5 years, they only paid him $25 million and he may have a buyout of not $75 million. Mark Davis looks like Lloyd Christmas, but he's not a bad businessman.
I hope Gruden gets every penny and was worth it, but we'll see.
If it's guaranteed 10 years and $100M....it's insane! It's also desperation and irresponsible.
BUT....if it's the way Butler has described, $5M per for the first 5 years WITH an "out", then it isn't so wild after all. Gruden is worth $5M per year, if he has any of the fire and smarts left. But there is no way he is worth $15M, especially after 5 long years.
So...5 for 5 with an out is worth spending. My assumption would then be that the last 5 years are based on a year by year review. And here's the deal, if Gruden even got to year 6, that would mean some bad news potentially for all the AFC West.
If I could backtrack a bit.....it is not often that someone does well in sports, takes an extended leave from the day to day operations, and returns with the same energy, flare, strategy and work ethic. As hard as tv might be, is it nearly as hard as working almost round the clock throughout the football season? If word is correct that Gruden was one of those folks who hardly ever leave the football facility, will he have that same approach the second time around....with a SB ring, wealth and a lifestyle that was much softer than what is ahead? Maybe he can be that person. Time will always tell. And though my world is not his world, I remember taking on a full time job after retiring, and soon realized that I did not like being under the gun all the time when I did not have to. Of course the motivation was different than Jon's....but at its very core, most of us do not like having to step it up again, when we really don't have to.
His presser is awesome. He's hilarious and passionate. I think he's gonna be great for them.
Wish we had someone with his knowledge and passion instead of........
Carrying a coach who's still on training wheels? Or one who picked Wednesdays as the most important date of the week in the nfl season? Hmm I think we have a coach just like that unfortunately...
Not really. The Dungy Bucs were seriously offensively deficient. They weren't going anywhere with Dungy. That was clear, which is why the Bucs went after Gruden. Gruden took Brad Johnson to his best seasons ever and won a SB. I'm not taking away the defensive team Dungy helped build but he was not going to win a championship without Gruden. And, while I like Dungy, he wasn't very good in Indy. Yes, he won, because of Manning. He never built the team up much as it was carried by Manning. That's not saying he wasn't a good coach, he was, but he was more a leader of men than a head coach to rebuild a team.
Ehh P.Manning usually struggled somewhat in the playoffs, and the year Indy won the SB was no exception.
Dungy did for Indy about the same as Gruden did for TB -- he retooled and improved the weaker unit so they could get over the hump, and Indy's defense was certainly terrible! It took Dungy a little more time than Gruden though because except for Freeney the D roster was deficient and he needed more playmakers. So after getting some like Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders, etc. the team was finally more balanced and the defense could actually pull its weight playing an instrumental role in their victories.
They had a salary cap disaster after that SB, lost a bunch of players, had lost a bunch of draft picks in the trade to get Gruden, but he still managed to get a couple more division titles with playoff berths before they fired him after a 9-7 season and gambled on Raheem Morris who proceeded to dragged the team down into the League basement (much like VJ has here).
He was traded for in the first place because of what he accomplished in Oakland. He took a 4-12 team with a horrible offense to the conference championship with a top 5 offense in only two years. And his OAK offense went to the SB against his new Buc's squad. Yes Dungy built that Buc's D, but they had no O until Gruden retooled it and couldn't get over the hump without one. Gruden has a talent for offense, which is why some of us wanted him here because that's what we need.
This is not an Art Shell situation; it would take decades of being away from football for it to be so. Gruden has thoroughly studied every team that's played on MNF, visiting their facilities and practices, interviewing coaches and players, all so he can break down what's happening on the field instantly and accurately, so the game definitely hasn't passed him by.
I agree completely with your last paragraph, because he has seen and been involved on multiple levels in the announcing booth. This part does make me wonder how dangerous he will be returning to coaching. I say I'm not impressed with him, maybe I just don't want him back in our division. I really do enjoy him in the booth though.
(I couldn't resist!)
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