NFL Network Suspends Heath Evans, Marshal Faulk & Ike Taylor

[CanDB]

Now when I watch sports, and even other tv shows, I wonder if the cast will be the same......

[CoryWinget81]

https://deadspin.com/nfl-network-suspends-marshall-faulk-ike-taylor-heath-1821206708

Article also includes the court filing.

[CoryWinget81]

I haven't had the time to read up on this much. Just got home from the hospital a couple of days ago recovering from surgery.

I know you're a women's rights advocate and your instincts are usually spot on. We'll see how this pans out.

I was making the point that the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to the workplace because it's a legal construct for trials.

But should she have made false allegations, she must be held accountable as well.

That's the thing though, I don't think the allegations are false. I think she may have fostered this environment around herself as she allowed it go on for several years. I believe her when says those things about those men, I just don't believe they were all non-consensual.

[broncoslover115]

Normally in these situations it's one man harassing multiple women. J, you know I'm a women's rights advocate, this sounds fishy. I feel terrible even saying that.

If the allegations are true and this woman was basically living in hell with every man in the room assaulting her, then I hope that whatever needs to happen to them, happens.

After reading everything I could find about the situation, it certainly seems to me like this is a woman scorned and exacting revenge. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I haven't had the time to read up on this much. Just got home from the hospital a couple of days ago recovering from surgery.

I know you're a women's rights advocate and your instincts are usually spot on. We'll see how this pans out.

I was making the point that the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to the workplace because it's a legal construct for trials.

But should she have made false allegations, she must be held accountable as well.

[CoryWinget81]

Normally in these situations it's one man harassing multiple women. J, you know I'm a women's rights advocate, this sounds fishy. I feel terrible even saying that.

If the allegations are true and this woman was basically living in hell with every man in the room assaulting her, then I hope that whatever needs to happen to them, happens.

After reading everything I could find about the situation, it certainly seems to me like this is a woman scorned and exacting revenge. I hope I'm wrong about that.

[broncoslover115]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty" in this country? We have actors, politicians, and now athletes losing jobs over "allegations". It's wrong if you ask me

We certainly hope there's enough evidence and or information to warrant their suspension.

I've seen the comment of "innocent until proven guilty" a lot lately on FB when it comes to these cases.

The issue however is that criteria is a legal construct and used in court proceedings. It does not apply to the workplace. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that innocent until proven guilty has no bearing in the workplace. Particularly if you live in an "Employee at Will" state.

An "Employee at Will" state means you can pretty much be fired st any time for any reason. It's at your employer's will.

If the fired person has enough evidence that they were fired over something they didn't do, they can file a "Wrongful Termination" lawsuit.

Also, I'm sure that every employer has a sexual harassment policy and all employees sign it. If your employer feels you violated that policy, they can suspend or fire you.

If the person files false allegations I certainly hope they're held accountable as well.

[Rich_C]

If it's true, good riddance! If it's not true, these women need to be held accountable!

Which is another issue. There have been cases where accusers have fabricated stories. IMO - those men and women who are engaging in the wrong activity need to be held accountable. That said those who inaccurately or maliciously accuse people of that same behavior needs to be held to account as well.

[Rich_C]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty" in this country? We have actors, politicians, and now athletes losing jobs over "allegations". It's wrong if you ask me

This is a VERY simple response.

Is there a single circumstance whereby it is OK for a Male boss to send a subordinate female employee a nude photo?
Is there a single circumstance whereby it is OK for a Male employee to press his 'Junk' against a female subordinates body or in her face?
IS there a single circumstance whereby it is OK for a Male employee to buy a female employee a vibrator as a gift?

What these idiots have done would never even cross my mind in a workplace. Even if I thought a female employee is attractive.


So when as part of a filing a nude photo of at least 2 of the accused can be produced alongside what I can only assume is court documents from other employees corroborating these accusations - sure I can understand and agree that action needs to be taken and swiftly. IMO the NFLN approached this far less aggressively than others have. They only suspended these ex-players.

[beastlyskronk]

Until on brave man comes forward.....

I just want to be able to wear my gray sweat pants again

[Insane Tacos]

If it's true, good riddance! If it's not true, these women need to be held accountable!

[CanDB]

^^^^^

But let me add to this......though there may be exceptions in terms of wrongful accusations, I am quite sure what we hear about is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this type of unwarranted behaviour. If any of you know of a female, or male, who has had to face such "ugly" behaviour, you will probably understand the importance of folks coming forward, and often the guts it takes to be the one to make things known. Too often the abused one faces additional suffering by having to be singled out by the unknowing public.....the ones who think they understand the situation. Lets get one thing straight here....sexual harassment is WRONG!

[CanDB]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty" in this country? We have actors, politicians, and now athletes losing jobs over "allegations". It's wrong if you ask me

I agree with you in principle.

But I will make an assumption that in all cases whereby someone is suspended or loses their job, it is because the cases are supported by enough fact to give corporate folks the go ahead to take some form of action. I highly doubt that if someone went forward to their HR people and made an accusation with little backing, that the accused would be suspended, etc.

Having said that, there is another downside when word gets out that someone has made an accusation, which often leads to the accused being deemed guilty without trial. The court of public opinion can be a harsh one.

[HUMCALC]

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty" in this country? We have actors, politicians, and now athletes losing jobs over "allegations". It's wrong if you ask me

[Rich_C]

You are correct. I like to believe that my crowd (growing up) was rightfully respectful of women, but there are cases of abusiveness everywhere you look....and I would venture to guess that those in power and at the height of their so called careers, are among the worst offenders. But as I suggested above, the door is a little more open for those who would not come forward previously. Time Magazine has added a little more comfort to the process. And no doubt, it is not surprising that women (and men as well) have been either too afraid or concerned or whatever to step forward. It is not an easy road for most of them.

But for sure, I believe '18 will be a notable year in the history of such crimes.

The one thing that I am willing to bet is that in 2018 will be the first case where a male will come forward. The sad thing is that I do not think he will receive the same attention as all of the cases we've seen with the female victims. The underlying narrative here is that those who are in power (some of them at least) have tried or have used that power to make sexual advances and/or performed sexual acts with/towards those who are junior to them. I fear the narrative of a male stepping forward will be that he "should" be stronger than the female accused of such behavior and that argument will be used to belittle the claim. That is why it is important to look at the underlying issue and not just the physical traits of those involved within the scenario.This is not an issue of who is stronger than who. This is an issue of power and influence and the fear of that influence being used against you in your future...indefinitely.

Now to circle back to this case. The woman who has brought this case forward (Jami Cantor) will need to prove that she did her job and did it well. She will also need to prove that she did not have any performance issues - just before she was fired. It is my understanding that this woman was fired from her position at the NFLN. Perhaps the burden of proof is different in America but generally speaking that would be her burden of proof here. Then all NFLN would need to do is cite a single incident in her termination of a recent error and that's that. If she did have performance issues in her job I actually think she'd have better grounds for a case if she had quit her job and circled back and claimed Constructive Dismissal. Which is basically stating that she felt she needed to quit due such toxic working conditions. This is also assuming that she made a formal complaint to HR as well. If she had done that then I'd think her case would likely have been an easy win.

[CanDB]

Well, if men would stop doing this crap then they wouldn't have to worry about it. Problem solved.

You are correct. I like to believe that my crowd (growing up) was rightfully respectful of women, but there are cases of abusiveness everywhere you look....and I would venture to guess that those in power and at the height of their so called careers, are among the worst offenders. But as I suggested above, the door is a little more open for those who would not come forward previously. Time Magazine has added a little more comfort to the process. And no doubt, it is not surprising that women (and men as well) have been either too afraid or concerned or whatever to step forward. It is not an easy road for most of them.

But for sure, I believe '18 will be a notable year in the history of such crimes.