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Browns, what would YOU do?

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  • EddieMac
    replied
    Man if I was the Browns...although I am not sold on cousins... with their cap space...grab him....now you draft barkley and maybe Nelson at 4 or see if buffalo will give up their 2firts for it and load up... they could have a solid team in one draft... finally.

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  • -Rod-
    replied
    I've read the Browns are consulting with Bill Parcells to evaluate this draft's QBs. That's an interesting information because Parcells has his well-known rules for drafting QBs.

    https://www.ndtscouting.com/marino-a...qb-2018-class/

    Hall of Fame head coach Bill Parcells is a renown talent evaluator and adopted a list of seven criteria that he used when considering quarterbacks in the NFL draft. That criteria is as follows:

    1. Be a three-year starter
    2. Be a senior in college
    3. Graduate from college
    4. Start 30 games
    5. Win 23 games
    6. Post a 2:1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
    7. Compete at least 60-percent of passes thrown
    As the article indicates, Baker Mayfield is the only top QB to meet all 7 criteria. Mason Rudolph also fulfilled the 7 rules, but he is not considered a 1st-round QB like the others. So, we can imagine Bill Parcells will try to sell the John Dorsey and the Browns on Baker Mayfield.

    If we combine that with the fact that former GM Scott McCloughan said back in October that Baker Mayfield was his favorite QB in this class, comparing him to Brett Favre, there is a strong chance the Browns will try to get Mayfield. McCloughan is also working with the Browns as a draft consultant.

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...hans_love.html

    In an interview with the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio in October, the former Redskins and 49ers general manager revealed that Mayfield was his top choice from this rich quarterback class -- and even compared him to Hall of Famer Brett Favre, with whom McCloughan spent six years in Green Bay.

    "He reminds me of a shorter version of Brett Favre," McCloughan told Gottlieb."Tough guy. He can throw it. And he's very confident, and he's not afraid whatsoever, whatsoever. He's a battler. I know saying Brett Favre's a big name, and I was around him for a while, but this guy has talent."
    If we look just at GM John Dorsey, I think Josh Allen is his type of QB. Dorsey tried to get Paxton Lynch in 2016 and traded up for Patrick Mahomes in 2017. He wants QBs with size and arm strength. That's also what Hue Jackson wants, since he gives plenty of importance to bigger QBs with height and hand size. Allen has ideal size for a QB and the golden arm to make any throw in the weather conditions of that division.

    My belief is that John Dorsey might be leaning towards Josh Allen, but McCloughan and Parcells will try to sell him on Baker Mayfield. Hue Jackson will probably bang the table for Josh Allen and Todd Haley might join him, considering his success with a bigger QB like Ben Roethlisberger.

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  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
    Lots of teams change or alter uniforms to boost sales and in hopes that a new image or fresh look will spark the teams at least a little, it's part of pulling out all the stops. Maybe it helped (slightly) for the Broncos and Bucs in 1997 boosting some team pride and excitement, but prerequisite to that is some established competency and success which comes from effective management.

    And I don't think it matters that Lerner sold to Halsam. Modell wasn't the original owner of the Browns either, and he no longer owns the Ravens -whoopdedoo.

    There is no "nucleus" left from the Broncos old teams of the past, and no the FO has not remained the same either. Turnover is inevitable, says Father Time.

    The Browns aren't an animal born to a mother but the product of a couple of men involving contracts, paperwork, etc. all subject to decisions for change like any other business. The franchises are all artificial so there's nothing truly "unnatural" about moving or forming an expansion.

    That said, it really doesn't matter that the Browns were reincarnated as an expansion --the names and uniforms are completely superficial elements. Because people are what really comprise a team, the true problem at the deeper level concerns the people running the organization and the way it's been run over the years, If it had been competent and stable from the outset, the team would have become more competitive, and winning makes ALL the difference and erases any notion about an identity crisis.

    This team is not under a supernatural curse nor is it unfixable, and they can still field a competitive unit and give the people of Cleveland something to cheer about --so long as it's run successfully from the top down. Maybe John Dorsey is the answer? I know Parcells was a consultant, but I think they really need him to run the whole show as head coach and GM. If he wasn't too old and retired maybe he would. A smart, hardassed, no-nonsense disciplinarian of that caliber would definitely turn it around in short order and restore some pride and dignity to the franchise.
    Like I said, you are playing pretend. You are sitting here saying:

    “Teams change owners, teams get rid of coaches, you could just convince yourself that all the changes to this team actually are just natural changes over time.”

    The answer is that they are not. I know what happened and you do as well. The real Browns are in Baltimore. The team in Cleveland is a replacement team that began play in 1999. Prior to 1999 that team did not exist and there is no “restoring pride and dignity” when there never was any.

    That “pride and dignity” organization went to Baltimore. The proudest moment of this franchise was making the playoffs one year only to lose to Pittsburgh - the sole playoff appearance in their history.

    As for your "there are no snakebit teams". The team in Cleveland plays in a division with three perennial playoff contenders. They are the odd man out in that they have only made the playoffs once in their entire history and that one time was a loss. They have been in playoff contention only twice in their history. They are a perennial failure. They have an owner whose only goal is to make a profit. The only reason he "updated the jerseys" was because he wanted to boost the jersey sales. That same year, he decided to allow naming rights to a stadium that previously had never had naming rights. That same owner was investigated and his company was found guilty of cheating their customers.

    It isn't rocket science to see what kind of individual this person is. The entire organization from the top to the very bottom is a sham. It is a money-making scheme. Said team will never succeed because they are failures, their owner is a failure, their coaches are failures, and because they are all failures and the fact that nobody has anything to worry about because they will still make money, said team will always be a failure. Businesses that do not care about their product and only care about making a profit will never find success. Sure, they will make money. But they will never have the success that matters.

    Everybody knows that and everyone avoids said business because of that. The only reason anyone goes to said business is because they are thrown some of the ill-begotten gains.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 01-11-2018, 06:48 PM.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    So to recap, The Browns have 6 of the first 65 selections....#1, #4, #33, #36, #63 and #65. Interestingly (to me), that's just one more than last year as follows:
    #1 - Garrett
    #25 - Peppers
    #29 - Njoku
    #52 - Kizer
    #65 - Ogunjobi

    I am going to take a leap and state that, given there has been a change in a management, and given that they would have to be completely misguided to miss out on at least a few quality players in this year's draft, and given that some of the previous year's picks will be successful....The Cleveland Browns will turn the corner by the latter part of 2018.

    WHAT A LEAP!!!

    Again.....can I some how become the new GM, and take on the job of offseason acquisitions via FA, Draft, Trade? Heck, I'd do it for peanuts compared to what these dudes make. My goodness, "normally" this would be a dream job, given the selections available, and the excitement surrounding change.
    Last edited by CanDB; 01-11-2018, 01:33 PM.

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  • L.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Identity has been an ongoing problem with that team.

    They have been hiring people like Jim Brown in an attempt to get people that played for the real Browns to become involved with this replacement. Look at the Mural fiasco they had with Mangini. Look at the new jerseys the new owner pushed to increase sales.

    They are struggling not only with identity but also the fact that they are a garbage fire on all levels. Denver never relocated and the core nucleus of the team remains intact. Bowlen (despite his ailment) continues to technically own the team as he has for decades. The front office may change for Denver but the core nucleus remains the same. Denver’s changes are natural changes. Denver had a stable front office since Bowlen bought the team and even bore it was relatively stable.

    Cleveland? They began play in 1999 and every year has been a disaster. It’s been such a disaster that they have had 3 owners over 18 years. Not only have they had three owners, they have undergone front office changes nearly every single year because they are a new team that again, began play in 1999.

    Cleveland in 18 years has had as many owners as Denver has in the entire history.
    Lots of teams change or alter uniforms to boost sales and in hopes that a new image or fresh look will spark the teams at least a little, it's part of pulling out all the stops. Maybe it helped (slightly) for the Broncos and Bucs in 1997 boosting some team pride and excitement, but prerequisite to that is some established competency and success which comes from effective management.

    And I don't think it matters that Lerner sold to Halsam. Modell wasn't the original owner of the Browns either, and he no longer owns the Ravens -whoopdedoo.

    There is no "nucleus" left from the Broncos old teams of the past, and no the FO has not remained the same either. Turnover is inevitable, says Father Time.

    The Browns aren't an animal born to a mother but the product of a couple of men involving contracts, paperwork, etc. all subject to decisions for change like any other business. The franchises are all artificial so there's nothing truly "unnatural" about moving or forming an expansion.

    That said, it really doesn't matter that the Browns were reincarnated as an expansion --the names and uniforms are completely superficial elements. Because people are what really comprise a team, the true problem at the deeper level concerns the people running the organization and the way it's been run over the years, If it had been competent and stable from the outset, the team would have become more competitive, and winning makes ALL the difference and erases any notion about an identity crisis.

    This team is not under a supernatural curse nor is it unfixable, and they can still field a competitive unit and give the people of Cleveland something to cheer about --so long as it's run successfully from the top down. Maybe John Dorsey is the answer? I know Parcells was a consultant, but I think they really need him to run the whole show as head coach and GM. If he wasn't too old and retired maybe he would. A smart, hardassed, no-nonsense disciplinarian of that caliber would definitely turn it around in short order and restore some pride and dignity to the franchise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hph5
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    First I would hire Kevin Costner......
    I think even Sonny's team won at least one game.
    Last edited by Hph5; 01-10-2018, 04:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    First I would hire Kevin Costner......

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
    What makes up a team/franchise, Charlie?

    The answer is of course its people, and change of personnel -in all departments- is the one constant in the NFL. The Broncos of today, for example, are not the Broncos of the '70s or '80s. It's now a totally different organization, different management, different coaches, different players. with different practice facilities and a different stadium, so are they "impostors" too?

    Identity (or supposed lackthereof) is not the problem with the current Cleveland Browns. What they need to do is obliterate the FO and probably the coaching staff and start over from there.
    Identity has been an ongoing problem with that team.

    They have been hiring people like Jim Brown in an attempt to get people that played for the real Browns to become involved with this replacement. Look at the Mural fiasco they had with Mangini. Look at the new jerseys the new owner pushed to increase sales.

    They are struggling not only with identity but also the fact that they are a garbage fire on all levels. Denver never relocated and the core nucleus of the team remains intact. Bowlen (despite his ailment) continues to technically own the team as he has for decades. The front office may change for Denver but the core nucleus remains the same. Denver’s changes are natural changes. Denver had a stable front office since Bowlen bought the team and even bore it was relatively stable.

    Cleveland? They began play in 1999 and every year has been a disaster. It’s been such a disaster that they have had 3 owners over 18 years. Not only have they had three owners, they have undergone front office changes nearly every single year because they are a new team that again, began play in 1999.

    Cleveland in 18 years has had as many owners as Denver has in the entire history.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 01-09-2018, 07:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rastic
    replied
    The main issues the Browns have faced in recent years isn't just with talent but primarily with management. The new GM was / is right to point the finger at the GM and staff for squandered opportunities. Get the FO in order and get a serious HC and coaching staff that are willing to push their players and push themselves.

    They have a serious chance in this draft and FA to strike gold but if they continue to set the bar at mediocrity then that's all they should expect.

    Leave a comment:


  • L.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    What happened to that team in 1995?

    The answer: the organization relocated to Baltimore and became the Baltimore Ravens.

    A new team had an expansion draft in 1999 and “inherited” the records. So, the actual physical team that won those championships left to Baltimore.

    So, like I said. Retire the team name retroactively to 1995 and declare the 1999-present organization exactly what it is - a brand new team similar to the Oilers-Titans.
    What makes up a team/franchise, Charlie?

    The answer is of course its people, and change of personnel -in all departments- is the one constant in the NFL. The Broncos of today, for example, are not the Broncos of the '70s or '80s. It's now a totally different organization, different management, different coaches, different players. with different practice facilities and a different stadium, so are they "impostors" too?

    Identity (or supposed lackthereof) is not the problem with the current Cleveland Browns. What they need to do is obliterate the FO and probably the coaching staff and start over from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hph5
    replied
    I would trade the number one pick for some more 3-5 rounders.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt. Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    Playing pretend will not fix them.

    They are a team with no identity. Every week they pretend to be something they are not. Fans of other teams (like Denver) look at Cleveland and wish it was the 80s. This is not the team that played in Cleveland in the 80s. That team is in Baltimore. Pittsburgh was Cleveland’s main rival. Now that rivalry only exists in Cleveland. Cleveland fans hate Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh doesn’t care one bit about Cleveland. That rivalry now is The Baltimore-Pittsburgh rivalry. Cleveland and Cincinnati were rivals. Now the rivalry that exists there is in name only. Nobody cares.

    It’s not some thing that wanes and shines, etc. It is gone - it is in Baltimore. Acknowledging the Elephant in the room is the first step in fixing anything. It is like the stages of grief. Cleveland still has not accepted the truth. The truth is that the Browns are gone and have been gone since 1995. Accept it and let them die.
    Oh,,, ok.
    Sounds good!

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by capt. Jack View Post
    I think alot of people love the Browns and they will get it together eventually.
    Playing pretend will not fix them.

    They are a team with no identity. Every week they pretend to be something they are not. Fans of other teams (like Denver) look at Cleveland and wish it was the 80s. This is not the team that played in Cleveland in the 80s. That team is in Baltimore. Pittsburgh was Cleveland’s main rival. Now that rivalry only exists in Cleveland. Cleveland fans hate Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh doesn’t care one bit about Cleveland. That rivalry now is The Baltimore-Pittsburgh rivalry. Cleveland and Cincinnati were rivals. Now the rivalry that exists there is in name only. Nobody cares.

    It’s not some thing that wanes and shines, etc. It is gone - it is in Baltimore. Acknowledging the Elephant in the room is the first step in fixing anything. It is like the stages of grief. Cleveland still has not accepted the truth. The truth is that the Browns are gone and have been gone since 1995. Accept it and let them die.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonny_Quest
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown View Post
    What happened to that team in 1995?

    The answer: the organization relocated to Baltimore and became the Baltimore Ravens.

    A new team had an expansion draft in 1999 and “inherited” the records. So, the actual physical team that won those championships left to Baltimore.

    So, like I said. Retire the team name retroactively to 1995 and declare the 1999-present organization exactly what it is - a brand new team similar to the Oilers-Titans.
    If the Ravens had kept the name then I think the record would follow. Since they didn't keep the name, I think it's totally legit for the city to assume the name and record with an expansion franchise.

    I'd feel the same if Seattle was awarded an NBA expansion team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt. Jack
    replied
    I think alot of people love the Browns and they will get it together eventually.

    Leave a comment:

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