What is your standard for the HOF ?

[bronx_2003]

This came up during last nights game, about whether Eli should be in the HOF. Both commentators said he should be (although commentators generally go ultra positive on players so I take this with a pinch of salt) because of the 2 SB's, even though his career record is .500 or just below now.

I understand he won 2 SB's and had 2 good playoff runs, he was decent in the first SB and put up 17 points (although that game was won by the Giants DL) but IMO he really shouldn't be in the HOF.

I look at guys like Marino, Montana, Elway, PM, Brady, etc...... as top level HOF players.

QB's like Eli and Rivers are at least a level or 2 below these and thus should not be in.

I guess it depends on your standards to get in the hall, or change the name to 'Hall of good players'

[broncolee]

Eli should not be in the Hall of Fame.

From a pure fairness standpoint, if Jim Plunkett can’t get in, Eli shouldn’t get in(I’m not advocating for a Raider to get into the HOF).

He’s only going to get in because his name is Manning.

[Butler By'Note]

Depends on who electors are discussing. Once Peter King said that to be a HOF player he believed a player needed to be amongst the very best players at their position (top 2 to 3) for several years of their career. But then he goes and puts someone like Jerome Bettis into the HOF.

Eli probably gets in because of his family and the media wanting to be close to them. But he was never amongst the best at his position for any length of his career. He's the QB version of Jerome Bettis.

[beastlyskronk]

Depends on who electors are discussing. Once Peter King said that to be a HOF player he believed a player needed to be amongst the very best players at their position (top 2 to 3) for several years of their career. But then he goes and puts someone like Jerome Bettis into the HOF.

Eli probably gets in because of his family and the media wanting to be close to them. But he was never amongst the best at his position for any length of his career. He's the QB version of Jerome Bettis.

He isn’t even that. I’d say he’s more like Jarius Wright whom I have no idea how he’s managed to stay in the NFL 8 seasons despite never topped 600 yards, 43 receptions, or 3 TDs and he doesn’t even play special teams. If Eli wasn’t a Manning he’d have been out of the NFL a long time ago.

Maybe an exaggeration but Eli has not been good. He turns the ball over at an absurd rate for someone who’s never really been questioned as a starter until recently. He’s never completed a high percentage of passes. He’s Jay Cutler with a 15 year career and 2 teams that were good enough to drag him to a super bowl win. He was never even the best QB in his division, does Tony Romo belong in the HoF?

I’m rambling but I do think a player should show that they are an elite player over a course of time. How long will depend on the person because guys like Terrell Davis kind of fly in the face of that. I don’t think anyone was as good as him preinjury and had he not been hurt I do think he goes over 2k at least once more. People will say that it was the scheme and the players around him but if that’s the case put an asterisk by Emmitt Smith because he wasn’t the best RB when he played at any point IMO.

Were they dominant and how long were they dominant? Did they fall off a cliff for no real reason or was there an injury in the event of a shorter career. These are the questions I would ask. The only time I’d consider the scheme is if I think it limited them but they still performed at a high level, such as Rod Smith. No doubt in my mind that if he traded places with Marvin Harrison or Isaac Bruce, he has their numbers instead of Michael Irvin’s.

[Zealander]

To me Eli didn't show the consistency needed to get in... Hell half of his career many people wouldn't even consider him a top 16 QB.

For me a HOF player was consistently a top 3 at their position for the majority of the careers. A HOF player shows the league something it hasn't seen before. They're all unique guys. Eli only has two big time games to show for his accomplishments and he was carried by a defense.

[broncolee]

Players who get into the Hall of Fame should be all time greats.

Eli Manning isn’t an all time great.

He might not even be an all time good.

He’s aiight though.

[EddieMac]

Players who get into the Hall of Fame should be all time greats.

Eli Manning isn’t an all time great.

He might not even be an all time good.

He’s aiight though.

Lol, this,,

Guys like Bettis, Curtis Martin, all good...Not HOF...

[bronx_2003]

Lol, this,,

Guys like Bettis, Curtis Martin, all good...Not HOF...

Yea I never liked these 2 getting in either

[Hadez]

Eli should not be in. IMO he was never the kind of QB like Marino, Elway or PM who can take over a game with their own skill sets.

Eli probably will get in because he was on great teams able to win a ring and he played in New York...because that fits a lot of the current voters standards....Did they play for one of the key markets (Pitt, NY, Dal)? Did they play on teams with really good players and coaches to win a Ring?

I do think we will start to see a wave of Patriots get in soon as the HoF voters start to realize Jr Seau, Randy Moss and Ty Law are the only HoFers from what I think it pretty obvious the best dynasty of all time when Free Agency has made it much more difficult to win year in and year out. My guess is Willie McGinest will be a first ballot because of this reason and his post season records for sacks all time and in one game.

[Hadez]

Lol, this,,

Guys like Bettis, Curtis Martin, all good...Not HOF...

I can see the argument made for Martin...he is 6th now in rushing but I think at one time we was 4th having been past by AP and Gore. He has more attempts than AP and Sanders. Maybe his HoF attribute is his durability? He definitely never made me feel like I was watching Sanders, Faulk, or Payton the players one knew were changing the game as they played.

I guess Bettis has the same HoF attribute in durability because I felt even less awed by his play.

These two players imo fit into my ...they played for a certain city so they get in.

[Hadez]

To the OPs question about what would my standard be?

I can understand why every team wants their best players to go into the HoF. Every fan base has players they loved and these players brought a level of enjoyment into their life. When thinking about those players there are even fewer who stand out more because of what they did on game day over and over. Maybe the team did not earn the team goals but the people know those players made a difference.

How does the entire league make standards for a HoF?

I think it breaks down into three categories.

1. Innovation. People who brought something new to the NFL never seen before. I think I can state a good example here....Barry Sanders. I am not sure if there has been anyone like him before or after. There are also team innovators.

2. People who have taken something done before but brought it to the next level. I think this can easily blend into innovators and team accomplishments. Will try to give an example...I do think the TE evolution of Dikta > Winslow > Sharpe > Gonzalez can be put here. Each one took the accomplishments of the previous best TE and took it to the next level. Gronk is probably more like a Sanders tho imo.

3. Teams accomplishments. This is where we discuss how many rings someone won. Football is a team game so the ability to achieve team goals is important but imo more team goals should be considered than just who won Super Bowls. How about how many times a coach/player has been part of the top scoring defense? How many times has a OL/Coach been part of a top rushing attack? Super Bowls are important but there are other standards to measure team performance. I do not think Super Bowl Ring(s) should be the Ace of Spades of the argument.

Ultimately there will be a lot of mix between the 3 categories.

The human bias part will always be there. IMO it would be greatly reduced by taking away "media" votes and having coaches and players vote....ideally coaches and players who played for multiple teams.

Maybe the media can have their own HoF. I do not really like what they have done with the current one myself.

[bronx_2003]

Frank Gore will be an interesting case of whether the best players go into the hall or if you just get in for longevity as well, which IMO is wrong.

Frank was a very good back for a few years but the HOF should be reserved for the elite and he was never in the same class as recent backs like AP or LT for example.

[CanDB]

Eli is definitely not a HoF type, based on regular season play. However, the 2 SB victories and 2 SB MVPs elevate him much closer, along with 4 Pro Bowls and Walter Payton Man of The Year, which combined, may get him a load of consideration. Standards are important, and in his case, the ability to "excel" in two post seasons will be weighted accordingly.

[bronx_2003]

Eli is definitely not a HoF type, based on regular season play. However, the 2 SB victories and 2 SB MVPs elevate him much closer, along with 4 Pro Bowls and Walter Payton Man of The Year, which combined, may get him a load of consideration. Standards are important, and in his case, the ability to "excel" in two post seasons will be weighted accordingly.

The first SB and playoff run really goes to the Giants pass rush, Eli was pretty average. He was good for their 2nd SB.

I just don't buy that its enough to be in the HOF when his career was pretty mediocre. If Eli gets in then does Joe Flacco for having a steady career and 1 very good playoff run which led to a SB ring.

If QB's like Eli and Flacco get into the HOF and are put on the same level as Marino, Elway, Montana, and Brady then IMO it loses any shred of credibility it might still have.

[Lumiere]

The first SB and playoff run really goes to the Giants pass rush, Eli was pretty average. He was good for their 2nd SB.

I just don't buy that its enough to be in the HOF when his career was pretty mediocre. If Eli gets in then does Joe Flacco for having a steady career and 1 very good playoff run which led to a SB ring.

If QB's like Eli and Flacco get into the HOF and are put on the same level as Marino, Elway, Montana, and Brady then IMO it loses any shred of credibility it might still have.

Maybe they need to differentiate between HOF level players, and some sort of longevity award for everyone else that had a pretty good and long-lived career (e.g., The Bus, Eli, etc.).

That way, they can still give out a special career distinction for deserving players without watering down the HOF.