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  • #16
    Originally posted by LbloodOjunkieG
    He is not overrated on his passing. They know his passing sucks. He is a winner. Who cares if he goes 10-22 or something, as long as you get the win, right?

    Hes not a winner, his team is. The guy actully tries every way in the world to lose games for them. The guy had 3 turnovers on monday night, and everyone acts like he was the main reason why they won...When it was clearly Dunn and the defense. If that was plummer, bronco fans would still be screaming to have him benched.

    I dont think vick is as valuable as people think he is.


    Acquaint yourself with DVOA and DPAR, by far the most accurate measurement of a player's value currently available:

    Last edited by Elway=Goat; 09-14-2005, 11:12 PM.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMdVHruUfI

    Travis Henry, single handedly taking the class out of our organization.

    Bowlen, you gutless drunk!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Elway=Goat
      Hes not a winner, his team is. The guy actully tries every way in the world to lose games for them. The guy had 3 turnovers on monday night, and everyone acts like he was the main reason why they won...When it was clearly Dunn and the defense. If that was plummer, bronco fans would still be screaming to have him benched.

      I dont think vick is as valuable as people think he is.


      Acquaint yourself with DVOA and DPAR, by far the most accurate measurement of a player's value currently available:

      http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php
      Yea. Right. Thats why the Falcons haven't had back to back winning seasons in how long? Thats why the Falcons did so great back in 2003, when Vick got hurt. Vick is going to get this team another winning record this year, which will break there 30 however many years it is.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by LbloodOjunkieG
        Yea. Right. Thats why the Falcons haven't had back to back winning seasons in how long? Thats why the Falcons did so great back in 2003, when Vick got hurt. Vick is going to get this team another winning record this year, which will break there 30 however many years it is.

        Its 38 years without back to back winning seasons until now. That boy can play and anyone in the NFL would take him in a heart beat. You can coach a guy how to throw the ball and take a 5 step drop. What you can't coach is speed and when to pull it down and pick up 20 yards on a 3rd and 10

        Comment


        • #19
          I think players are usually considered bad, when they have more TO's then they so td's. Or am I missing something?

          Look back at that year, the defense performed horribly, they had injuries all throughout the team. It wasnt just vick. It also didnt help that they had Doug Johnson starting. Hes a 3rd stringer at best.

          Vick is all hype. People think he is on par with the elite QB's because he can run fast. Like I said vick dosent win games, the falcons d. I give more credit to the defense, and Dunn and Ducket then vick.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMdVHruUfI

          Travis Henry, single handedly taking the class out of our organization.

          Bowlen, you gutless drunk!

          Comment


          • #20
            I think your wrong. That is just my opinion.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Elway=Goat
              Michael Vick continues to be the most overrated, overhyped player in the league. The guy has perfected the bounce pass. They said they are going to start throwing more...Looking at the game tonight, they are better off just letting Dunn and ducket do all the work and letting vick get all the credit(which he dosent deserve). Because he Vick has to throw the ball hes worthless.

              His younger brother has showed nothing at this point. He has just beat up on bad schools, so far. Lets see what he does against a good school with a good defense. At this point the only thing the guy has proven is he cant stay out of trouble.
              Marcus came from behind in the fourth quarter against NC State in the season opener. NC had the top defense in the nation last year and returned several starters (9 or more I think) including two defensive ends with first round potential. BTW it was his first start.
              I'll duel you left-handed

              "I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women: suddenly, inexplicably, uncritically, giving no thought to the pain or disruption it would bring with it" - Nick Hornby from Fever Pitch

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LbloodOjunkieG
                I think your wrong. That is just my opinion.
                How so? Am I right that when a player turns the ball over more than he passes or runs for TDs makes him great? Or Elite?

                Vick has the privilage in playing with the best 1-2 punch running game in the league.

                People like to look at his winning% but its missleading. If we looked at strickly winning% jay feidler should be considered elite.

                People like to bring up the 2003 season...Well Dunn(one half of the real mvp of the team dunn and duckett) missed 5 games that year. Atlantas defense was dead last in yards allowed, 30th in points allowed, 29th in passing defense, 29th against the run, middle of the pack team in sacks, middle of the pack in picks. When vick came back at the end of the year, it was at the easier part of there schedual. They played 2 good teams and the rest where a bunch of cream puffs. The 2 teams they played was indy and carolina...They got spanked by indy 38-7 and beat carolina 20-14.

                Most Qb's can succeed in atlantas system with those 2 running backs, and that defense. Hell jay fieldler was solid with Rickey. Trent Dilfer won a damn superbowl. Like I said, how great can you be when you turn the ball over more then you throw or run TD's? Not even plummer does that.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMdVHruUfI

                Travis Henry, single handedly taking the class out of our organization.

                Bowlen, you gutless drunk!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by delaranta
                  Marcus came from behind in the fourth quarter against NC State in the season opener. NC had the top defense in the nation last year and returned several starters (9 or more I think) including two defensive ends with first round potential. BTW it was his first start.

                  LOL, your comparing last years defense to this years? The defenses change year to year. Look at the key word(last year)...
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMdVHruUfI

                  Travis Henry, single handedly taking the class out of our organization.

                  Bowlen, you gutless drunk!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Elway=Goat
                    How so? Am I right that when a player turns the ball over more than he passes or runs for TDs makes him great? Or Elite?

                    Vick has the privilage in playing with the best 1-2 punch running game in the league.

                    People like to look at his winning% but its missleading. If we looked at strickly winning% jay feidler should be considered elite.

                    People like to bring up the 2003 season...Well Dunn(one half of the real mvp of the team dunn and duckett) missed 5 games that year. Atlantas defense was dead last in yards allowed, 30th in points allowed, 29th in passing defense, 29th against the run, middle of the pack team in sacks, middle of the pack in picks. When vick came back at the end of the year, it was at the easier part of there schedual. They played 2 good teams and the rest where a bunch of cream puffs. The 2 teams they played was indy and carolina...They got spanked by indy 38-7 and beat carolina 20-14.

                    Most Qb's can succeed in atlantas system with those 2 running backs, and that defense. Hell jay fieldler was solid with Rickey. Trent Dilfer won a damn superbowl. Like I said, how great can you be when you turn the ball over more then you throw or run TD's? Not even plummer does that.
                    I did not say Vick was "great" or "elite". He is a good player.
                    Yea, Dunn missed some games, but all the games he missed came when Vick was back. What did Vick do? He went 3-1 the games he started. He played Carolina, Indy, Tampa Bay, and Jacksonville. Beat them all but Indy. WITHOUT Dunn. Meanwhile, they lost to both Tamba Bay and Carolina earlier in the year, WITH Dunn. About there defense, what do you expect when the offense cannot move the ball. There defense is going to be on the field most of the time.
                    What good is throwing for 40 touchdowns and 10 picks if your record is 2-14? It's not. You need to WIN.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LbloodOjunkieG
                      I did not say Vick was "great" or "elite". He is a good player.
                      Yea, Dunn missed some games, but all the games he missed came when Vick was back. What did Vick do? He went 3-1 the games he started. He played Carolina, Indy, Tampa Bay, and Jacksonville. Beat them all but Indy. WITHOUT Dunn. Meanwhile, they lost to both Tamba Bay and Carolina earlier in the year, WITH Dunn. About there defense, what do you expect when the offense cannot move the ball. There defense is going to be on the field most of the time.
                      What good is throwing for 40 touchdowns and 10 picks if your record is 2-14? It's not. You need to WIN.

                      I agree he is good or "effective" somewhat. I just dont think he deserves the props he gets from the media, and casual fans who think he is great because he can "run fast" and make "sick jukes". To me hes comparable to a basketball player who does fancy dunks and the fans are on his nuts. Not because hes a great player, but because he does 1 or 2 entertaining things throughout a whole game. Or a pitcher in baseball who has alot of wins, but his era, SO, walks are all well below average compared to most players. He wins because he has a very nice team around him. I think this applies to vick too. The falcons did struggle on offense when he was out. The defense was horrible probably because they where on the field so much. But they also had a 3rd sting QB at best qb playing. I am of the opinion the falcons would be more successful with probably 10 qbs in vicks place with that running game, and defense.

                      To me Vick is in the top half of the league as far as QB's. But I dont consider him top 5 (like some people like to pretend) by a long shot. I dont consider him top 10.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yMdVHruUfI

                      Travis Henry, single handedly taking the class out of our organization.

                      Bowlen, you gutless drunk!

                      Comment

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