CU football scandel (merged with "Gary Barnett" thread)

[Jared]

Originally posted by bcollin1
I know that. I didn't SAY she was talking to me.

???

I'm totally lost on your point here.
Is this your way of saying I can only reply to comments made directly to me...?

I KNOW that's not a rule here!

I edited my response.

It has been busy to say the least.

[Return of Lava]

Originally posted by Jared
Lava, this flies in the face of everything I have ever been taught about being a member of a team. If we do anything, ANYTHING, on or off the court (or field in this case), it can hurt the team by being a distraction. This is preached from high school on up. So how can a coach possibly just say, "When you are not on my time, I don't give a damn what you do." I doubt that was his recruiting pitch. If it was, then he talked to some VERY brave parents. If he DOES believe that, but pitches something else, then he has lied to these young men's parents. Either way, I can't possibly imagine coach thinking that is an acceptable policy, if for no other selfless reason, they don't want to lose their jobs.

seriously though, is the coach supposed to chaperone(sp) the party? Its not that the coach would say "well they aint on my time no more" its that he cant be with them 24/7 just cause he is the coach, he probably has his own family and besides that, the student athletes cant be followed like that. Think about high school, how much free time does the players have without the coach? Think about the NFL, how many crime charges go against players? The coach isnt around them ALL the time. They aren't supposed to be. the students did that stuff on thier own, bottom line, the coach didnt tell them to do it, he didnt help them do it, the students just took it upon themselves to do it. The coach CANNOT keep track of each and every player at all times, its ridiculous. How can we even think that the coach was supposed to know what was going on at some college party. The blame should be placed on the player who did it and nobody else. until we find out that barnett DID know about it, then he should be dealt with, but nobody knows that for sure so as far as that is concerned he never knew. we cant assume he did. Think about what you guys are saying, its based off hindsight. You are saying the coach should have went up to the players and said, "ok guys, dont rape anybody this week" i believe ALL the blame should be put on the player who did it THEN anybody else who knew about it(coaches or players) and didnt report it, should suffer a lesser penalty. It is ridiculous to half-excuse the player responsible just cause he is in athletics. Say the player wasnt in athletics, should we blame his favorite teacher?

[Jared]

Originally posted by Return of Lava
seriously though, is the coach supposed to chaperone(sp) the party? Its not that the coach would say "well they aint on my time no more" its that he cant be with them 24/7 just cause he is the coach, he probably has his own family and besides that, the student athletes cant be followed like that. Think about high school, how much free time does the players have without the coach? Think about the NFL, how many crime charges go against players? The coach isnt around them ALL the time. They aren't supposed to be. the students did that stuff on thier own, bottom line, the coach didnt tell them to do it, he didnt help them do it, the students just took it upon themselves to do it. The coach CANNOT keep track of each and every player at all times, its ridiculous. How can we even think that the coach was supposed to know what was going on at some college party. The blame should be placed on the player who did it and nobody else. until we find out that barnett DID know about it, then he should be dealt with, but nobody knows that for sure so as far as that is concerned he never knew. we cant assume he did. Think about what you guys are saying, its based off hindsight. You are saying the coach should have went up to the players and said, "ok guys, dont rape anybody this week" i believe ALL the blame should be put on the player who did it THEN anybody else who knew about it(coaches or players) and didnt report it, should suffer a lesser penalty. It is ridiculous to half-excuse the player responsible just cause he is in athletics. Say the player wasnt in athletics, should we blame his favorite teacher?

NO. The coach is not supposed to chapoerone the party. The coach should have a policy that he shares with the players.

"If you screw up, you hurt the team, and you will be out of here". Its not that the coach is responsible for the actions of his players (legally anyway. Under NCAA rules, its a different story), but that he obviously has not fostered an environemnt of accountability. That is obvious just based on his own comments since all of this has started. He clearly doesn't hold himself accountable, and he doesn't think his players are accountable. Until there is a legal fact-finding inquiry, whether that is an investigation or a trial, he has no place saying those things. Because is something DID happen, then clearly, SOMEONE has to be accountable. So for him to state as fact otherwise is both presumptive and premature.

If he had stressed to them the importance of their own perosnal behavior and how it affects the whle team, maybe one of these young men wouldn't even be in a position where they could be accused of rape. Maybe all of the cahrges are false. The most likely scenario is that some may be false or at least unable to be proven, and some are true. Regardless, even if they were all false, as a coach, I would be asking my players "How on earth could you even be somehwere where you can be accused of this?" I would aslo add "I expect you to use better judgement. I have to suspend you until te investigation is over. If you are found to be complately clear of all charges, then you are welcome back and I will never mention it again. But because you have displayed poor decision making, you are a distraction to your teammates, and you will need this time to focus on your legal issue anyway."

Saying something like that does two things:

1) It shows that you, as a person and leader of young men, will not tolerate behavior that is unacceptable in mainstream society within the confines of your team.

2) It shows the other young men on your team that you do not mess around, and that there are consequences for their actions. Even if the accusation is false, you will be expected to keep yourself away from situations where you can even be accused.


Of course, I realize that this gets harder and harder every year with players, as more of them come from homes with one or no parents and no ethical guidance. But that doesn't mean you don't try, dammit!

[orangenblue420]

Originally posted by Jared
I am fairly certain that she was responding to 'thehoot79" in her post, not you.

Which I now see that you did see.

Soooo tired......must rest eyes......

Not sure what I missed, but I am assuming that part of bcollins response was to me, although it seems to have disappeared...

1. I do realize that it is a genderless crime, but thanks anyways Captain Obvious, but I also KNOW that rape occurs mainly to women (7 out of every 8 rape victims, in 2002, were women http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html), go do some research for yourselves - esp. you hoot - My best friend also happens to have her bachelors degree in psych (and is interviewing with grad schools as we speak) and she specializes in womens studies.

2. I was asking the male/female question in all seriousness, I wanted to know. I checked their profile and it wasn't listed, so I asked, it wasnt meant to be a sarcastic question. Tis why I asked the second question about having ever been raped. And NO I definitely would NOT have felt stupid, regardless of their answer...I had a response for either answer, although the one for female would not have been pretty

3. The subject I wasnt going to comment on was how it felt to be raped and I didnt comment on it, now did I?????? My comments were focused on replying to hoots statements.

4. OK, Mr. Pot II for someone who wasnt going to give flack, you certainly managed to throw a bit in there now didnt ya???

Oh yeah, and I go back to..................


BITE ME (inserted smilie since you seem to think that adding one at the end of your jabs seems to make everything ok.....)

[quarterback1426]

Personally, I am a big CU fan, and I don't understand why this girl waits so long after the alleged rape supposedly happened. Why not come out immediatly? Most of the people that went to the school when she was "raped" are gone now. It isn't fair that now everyone looks down upon Colorado University, even though basically none of the current players attended the university at that time. Just remember that when you're talkin bad about CU. And the coach, if the accusations are found to be true, then he should be let go, but until then let him go back to his job.

[Return of Lava]

Originally posted by Jared
"If you screw up, you hurt the team, and you will be out of here". Its not that the coach is responsible for the actions of his players (legally anyway. Under NCAA rules, its a different story), but that he obviously has not fostered an environemnt of accountability. That is obvious just based on his own comments since all of this has started. He clearly doesn't hold himself accountable, and he doesn't think his players are accountable. Until there is a legal fact-finding inquiry, whether that is an investigation or a trial, he has no place saying those things. Because is something DID happen, then clearly, SOMEONE has to be accountable. So for him to state as fact otherwise is both presumptive and premature.

If he had stressed to them the importance of their own perosnal behavior and how it affects the whle team, maybe one of these young men wouldn't even be in a position where they could be accused of rape. Maybe all of the cahrges are false. The most likely scenario is that some may be false or at least unable to be proven, and some are true. Regardless, even if they were all false, as a coach, I would be asking my players "How on earth could you even be somehwere where you can be accused of this?" I would aslo add "I expect you to use better judgement. I have to suspend you until te investigation is over. If you are found to be complately clear of all charges, then you are welcome back and I will never mention it again. But because you have displayed poor decision making, you are a distraction to your teammates, and you will need this time to focus on your legal issue anyway."

Saying something like that does two things:

1) It shows that you, as a person and leader of young men, will not tolerate behavior that is unacceptable in mainstream society within the confines of your team.

2) It shows the other young men on your team that you do not mess around, and that there are consequences for their actions. Even if the accusation is false, you will be expected to keep yourself away from situations where you can even be accused.


Of course, I realize that this gets harder and harder every year with players, as more of them come from homes with one or no parents and no ethical guidance. But that doesn't mean you don't try, dammit!

so what your saying is the football players cant go to any parties? A rape accusation can happen at ANY time whether it is true or not. The female could even WANT to have sex, then turn and say she was raped, not saying this is the katie Hnida case, but in college it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to stay out of that situation where you could be charged. You have to stay inside all the time and never go anywhere that another female is.

Besides that, it was 5 years ago, that player that did it was gone right, who was he supposed to suspend now? he never knew remember, until now. So the player just got away with it, and his old coach takes the blame? I understand him saying he will support his players 100% cause he cant break the bond with his player's trust on an accusation that might not be true. I just dont see how its his fault until they PROVE it is and nobody proved it yet.......have they? Maybe some new stuff came up but i havent heard nothing.

I must ask......if he wasnt a football player, who would you blame then?

[quarterback1426]

A football coach is not the mother of the players. The coach cannot be responsible for the player's actions at all times, nor are they expected to be. It is not the coach's fault for something a player did. Is it the teacher's fault if someone fails a test? Is it the manager of a store's fault is one of the employees decides to steal something? No.

[Return of Lava]

Originally posted by quarterback1426
A football coach is not the mother of the players. The coach cannot be responsible for the player's actions at all times, nor are they expected to be. It is not the coach's fault for something a player did. Is it the teacher's fault if someone fails a test? Is it the manager of a store's fault is one of the employees decides to steal something? No.

yeah thats how i feel, unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, i dont see his fault.

[quarterback1426]

Originally posted by Return of Lava
yeah thats how i feel, unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, i dont see his fault.

And so far, they haven't linked him to anything.

[orangenblue420]

Is it the teachers fault if they see a kid cheating and turn their head - is it a managers fault if they see someone stealing and look the other way - When the players are on the field or in the locker room, the coach has some responsibility to coach, teach and discipline them in the proper manner - you cant tell me he didnt know some of this **** was going on - please

[Return of Lava]

Originally posted by Return of Lava
unless they can somehow link the coach to the scandals, and prove he seen it and just turned his head, i dont see his fault.

we cant assume he knew

[orangenblue420]

I can - and I will until he can prove that he didnt know - lava youve been in locker rooms (as have I ) and you know that if enough of that crap is goin on the coach will know - there is no doubt in my mind that he knew something

[quarterback1426]

Originally posted by orangenblue420
Is it the teachers fault if they see a kid cheating and turn their head - is it a managers fault if they see someone stealing and look the other way - When the players are on the field or in the locker room, the coach has some responsibility to coach, teach and discipline them in the proper manner - you cant tell me he didnt know some of this **** was going on - please

I'm just saying that if someone is going to get in troube for this if it's true(and someone will), it should be the players that did it, not the coach that coached them.

[orangenblue420]

Originally posted by quarterback1426
I'm just saying that if someone is going to get in troube for this if it's true(and someone will), it should be the players that did it, not the coach that coached them.

Its a crime in the US to turn your back on a crime - he's not just gonna be consider an innocent bystander - i mean I am all for the players who did this to get the full punishment of the law - but everyone involved should

[quarterback1426]

Originally posted by orangenblue420
Its a crime in the US to turn your back on a crime - he's not just gonna be consider an innocent bystander - i mean I am all for the players who did this to get the full punishment of the law - but everyone involved should

Ok, that does make sense, but until they prove something against the coach, can he at least go back to his job?