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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

    Thoughtful as always Can. For me it is personal. My brother in law was on the 97&98 teams that went back to back. So for me, I don't want any other division rival to achieve that while I'm around. Also, being in Denver, I am petty enough to be enjoying the boulders being thrown from our glass house at KC for their utter destruction last night. It will be nice to not hear about how awesome they are and how they will be running the league for the next decade. Last night took a little luster off of them and will provide some respite this off-season here in town.
    Listen....I respect your preference and your opinion. I am not from Denver or Colorado. I could choose any team when I was young, and have pulled for a several, until I locked in with The Broncos around the early days of Elway. I was a huge John Riggins fan, so I followed Washington for a stretch. I loved watching Montana and San Fran for decades. I loved Marino and his incredible arm, and Miami overall for a while. Used to feel for The pats back in the day, but that turned into something else in the 2000s. Never liked Dallas and their big time reputation. And yes, I do like The Pack but that happened when Rodgers finally got his chance. If I am honest, I think I felt for the guy for so long that when he made it, I was impressed.

    I don't have a strong divisional thing, but I did dislike The Raiders for many, many years. They don't bother me as much anymore, because of their poor production over a lengthy period. I have stated, once a team I follow loses, my gut tells me who to pull for each game going forward. I have pulled for teams I was not crazy about, in order to beat a team I didn't like. That's my bent. Divisional may be a factor, but not always for me.

    That's impressive about your brother in law!
    Last edited by CanDB; 02-08-2021, 09:32 AM.

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    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

      I said Mahomes "could be". Not exactly a big statement. Brady was not that good when he first started. He got lucky with a terrible call against The Raiders. Not his fault. Mahomes is the better player at this stage of their careers. He could go on to be The GOAT. He may never amass more than a few SBs, but that's not in his control. Odds are he won't be The GOAT.

      You talked about The Chiefs in past, with their potential salary woes, but here they are, back to back visits and favoured. Yes they lost. But they are already favoured to win next year. So as far as I can tell, KC is very much a factor again. Within one call of making it to 3 straight SBs with a young QB.

      Yes, everyone needs an Oline. But Brady could never scramble. If I had an ordinary Oline and given the choice of all QBs to start....I might not take him. If it was a really good Oline, probably. I loved Montana. I think Rodgers when healthy is pretty scary. Brady is a super QB, and seems to end up on the right side of the score in big games. That's incredible stuff, as have been his late game drives.

      But as for the original point...we never know who will emerge. My view is that Mahomes has been the best QB over the last 3 years, and he was what....barely 20. If he stays healthy and KC keeps being a solid organization, he will make a lot of history, whether folks here like him or not.

      Sorry to those here who think a Broncos fan can't pull for other divisional teams once the Broncos are out. But I will tell you, there is no fan rule of that nature, and we all know where the fan discussion goes when challenged. It's personal and it's everyone's own choice. I hear loads of folks like me, who respect Brady (and I have been pretty clear about that since he started home shopping), but grow tired of his victories. That's what fans do. I am not upset that Tampa won, and I am not angry that Brady has another ring. If it was him and the pats, I would be.

      And to clear up something from this thread last night....I made it clear I did not like some of the calls early, because the playoffs have not be ref'd that way. Many have echoed that, elsewhere. Had they stayed true to the cause, the first half would have ended closer, I'm sure. Setting up a great second half. Tampa did dominate the second half. so they deserved the win. But people who do not play the game, or think that refs are always right, and should call penalties on the simplest of infractions in the game of the year, don't get it. Like you perhaps, I've played various sports, and some refs/umps make it clear what direction they're going early on. Rules are enforced different, each game, each ref. But anyone who plays sports knows when the refs are being tough or a bit lax. So my argument...if you set the tone of letting things go a bit throughout the playoffs, don't change back in The SB, and in this case, seemingly more so against one team.

      And to all, I don't get the argument that KC held all year. The refs as I mentioned, called tougher throughout the season. Are folks saying that they closed their eyes on KC until The SB?? If so, that's another league issue.

      Clearly I was pulling for The Packers two weeks ago, and even there, that last call against them sealed Tampa's win. Had they not called it, we get a thriller of a finish. Earlier they let a worse call go that caused a key interception. Refs matter. They must have consistency, whether in one game, or all season. Not here nor there.

      Bottom line...Tampa deserved the victory. Mahomes was running for his life, and was clearly not 100%. And I'll repeat again, Tampa has proven that having 4 quality LBs is a great plan for defensive prowess. Yes, OLBS are wonderful, but so are the dudes in the middle. Athletic players, who can read plays quickly, tackle and make things happen, are a beautiful thing!

      And Butler, I know you dislike KC, but you never answered me...do you not respect and even empathize with Reid, Losing a child like he did must have been very painful. And what happened in that unfortunate car crash was his son, not him, as you know. You said it like that, but does it need repeating in a point that is meant to call out a team's character? You say you don't like Kelce, Mahomes' mother, and whatever. Are those serious issues?? Do you not read about problems throughout the league? Hill, yes. But they did release Hunt, and I expected them to do that, given what he did. But he's playing again, so some teams will try.

      Your turn....
      What are you talking about dude? Andy Reid's son didn't die in a car accident, he killed a 5 year old girl because he was fully intoxicated. No outrage from him or the Cheifs fans for that murder.

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      • Originally posted by aditheman View Post

        What are you talking about dude? Andy Reid's son didn't die in a car accident, he killed a 5 year old girl because he was fully intoxicated. No outrage from him or the Cheifs fans for that murder.
        I think he's talking about two separate situations.
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        • Originally posted by aditheman View Post

          What are you talking about dude? Andy Reid's son didn't die in a car accident, he killed a 5 year old girl because he was fully intoxicated. No outrage from him or the Cheifs fans for that murder.
          Not even sure what you mean. His son died years ago. His other son was recently involved in a very unfortunate car accident, whereby a young child is still in serious condition. That son was reportedly driving after consuming alcohol. I worry about that 5 year old.

          In the confines of this overall discussion, Andy Reid lost a son (Garrett) years ago. And sad that it is, but I highly doubt he told his son Britt to have alcohol and then drive away. Parents can be blamed for many things, but not every decision their children make.

          To conclude....I think Andy Reid is a good man, and I am disappointed that a child is seriously injured.

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          • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

            Russell Wilson went to 2 Super Bowls in his first 3 years as well, people were anointing him the next great QB and the Seahawks a great NFL dynasty to be. Six years later and the Seahawks haven't been back to the Super Bowl, they haven't even been able to make it back to the NFC Championship game.

            The salary cap has a way of evening things out, it's been easy for the Chefs to surround Mahomes with talent when his been on his first contract (same as the Seahawks and Wilson) but it gets harder as Mahomes and other players want to get paid. The Chefs are currently $21.8 million over the projected cap of $180 million. And that's with Mahomes cap number at $24.8 million. In 2022 it raises up to $31.45 million and then after that it gets into the $40 million range, and with 2027 (it'll be renegotiated by then) it having a cap number of just under $60 million.

            Mahomes is a great player, but the Chefs are about to enter a world where they're going to need young cheap players to step up every single year if they're going to stay near the top. And that gets harder and harder to do, especially when they make poor draft decisions ahead of time. Go back to the 2020 draft, the end of night 1 the Chefs pick a RB, despite it being the easiest position to fill and the knowledge that they were going to need younger cheaper players at important positions. Couldn't they have used a tackle tonight more than Edwards-Helaire?

            As for the comment about Brady needing an o-line, every QB does. Mahomes desperately needed an o-line tonight. He didn't look like nearly the same QB when Tampa got pressure from their front four, with no blitz, and his guys not able to run open down the field.
            Yeah...I think the Chiefs are going to start to decline quickly.

            They're going to have to nail every draft pick to fill the gaps around the massive contracts they've committed to.

            I think Mahomes will always have them in the playoff hunt like the Seahawks, but they're going to look like a very mortal team starting next year.

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            • Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post

              Yeah...I think the Chiefs are going to start to decline quickly.

              They're going to have to nail every draft pick to fill the gaps around the massive contracts they've committed to.

              I think Mahomes will always have them in the playoff hunt like the Seahawks, but they're going to look like a very mortal team starting next year.
              i don't know i think the biggest hit to the Chiefs will be when Kelce who is 31 starts to drop off. it is around that tme in his career. and if that does happen he may at least have a decline in stats. having a guy lik Kelce has really helped Mahomes so far.
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              • Mahomes to have surgery tomorrow for turf toe, which of course just needs time to heal but not major. But he ran about 500 yards trying to make passes on it. Those were his decisions, and whether wise or not, he risked pain for chances. And when you look back, a number of TD passes were inches off. But he was straight up about the game, saying he was the reason his Oline was going the wrong direction some times, and he was not on the same page as his receivers at others. And they failed to execute. I like this "kid". He is more of a class act than many, especially at his age. Those are true leadership qualities.

                Another player many dislike here (that I am ok with) "was" Rivers. who did at times look like a whiner. But the thing I remember, outside Cutler being a punk at the time, was how he was hurt one playoffs, and went into Foxboro playing like there was no tomorrow...which in football terms, there was not. He lost but I was very impressed. No excuses, just play your heart out in pain. He's a pretty good guy off the field, so that's how I assess folks overall.

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                • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                  Mahomes to have surgery tomorrow for turf toe, which of course just needs time to heal but not major. But he ran about 500 yards trying to make passes on it. Those were his decisions, and whether wise or not, he risked pain for chances. And when you look back, a number of TD passes were inches off. But he was straight up about the game, saying he was the reason his Oline was going the wrong direction some times, and he was not on the same page as his receivers at others. And they failed to execute. I like this "kid". He is more of a class act than many, especially at his age. Those are true leadership qualities.

                  Another player many dislike here (that I am ok with) "was" Rivers. who did at times look like a whiner. But the thing I remember, outside Cutler being a punk at the time, was how he was hurt one playoffs, and went into Foxboro playing like there was no tomorrow...which in football terms, there was not. He lost but I was very impressed. No excuses, just play your heart out in pain. He's a pretty good guy off the field, so that's how I assess folks overall.
                  I guess that's the 4-6 month recovery variety? Wow. I wonder if it was already that bad or he made it worse? Not that it really matters, I guess, when you're trying to win a SB. Yeah, I remember when Rivers played with a torn ligament in his knee. I didn't like him at the time, but I had to give the man his respect for that one.

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                  • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                    I guess that's the 4-6 month recovery variety? Wow. I wonder if it was already that bad or he made it worse? Not that it really matters, I guess, when you're trying to win a SB. Yeah, I remember when Rivers played with a torn ligament in his knee. I didn't like him at the time, but I had to give the man his respect for that one.
                    Good on you pal. There's a solid line between disliking opponents and respecting them as people. Other than in fantasy, I do not normally pull for Seattle, but how can I not like Wilson. Respect runs deep.

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                    • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                      I guess that's the 4-6 month recovery variety? Wow. I wonder if it was already that bad or he made it worse? Not that it really matters, I guess, when you're trying to win a SB. Yeah, I remember when Rivers played with a torn ligament in his knee. I didn't like him at the time, but I had to give the man his respect for that one.
                      Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                      Good on you pal. There's a solid line between disliking opponents and respecting them as people. Other than in fantasy, I do not normally pull for Seattle, but how can I not like Wilson. Respect runs deep.
                      One more thing pal....you probably play/ed sports, and if so, you would likely also agree that there were many dudes you really disliked playing but really wished they'd be on your team. Sometimes it was because of their skill, but often it was a combination of skill/leadership/will power. You hated playing them, but you respected them and hoped they'd join you at some point.

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                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post



                        One more thing pal....you probably play/ed sports, and if so, you would likely also agree that there were many dudes you really disliked playing but really wished they'd be on your team. Sometimes it was because of their skill, but often it was a combination of skill/leadership/will power. You hated playing them, but you respected them and hoped they'd join you at some point.
                        I can't think of any guys I hated, and wanted to play on the same team with, but that's just me. The only player in any sport I ever wanted to be on the same team with was a guy from another high school who I grew up playing pick up games and in rec leagues with. We never lost. Me being an immature lunatic in high school though means it was probably for the best. I would've just dragged him down with me. I think he got a scholarship offer from a school in Indiana, but wound up going into something with fitness training. Last time I saw him, he was coaching youth basketball. Great, great guy. Didn't take very good care of himself though. lol.

                        You see this all the time with professional athletes. Many of them grew up playing ball together, or they're related, and it's like a big community despite being on different teams. For fans, we love to hate certain guys like Rivers, but we'd love them if they were on our team. Many of us just won't admit it.


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                        • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                          I can't think of any guys I hated, and wanted to play on the same team with, but that's just me. The only player in any sport I ever wanted to be on the same team with was a guy from another high school who I grew up playing pick up games and in rec leagues with. We never lost. Me being an immature lunatic in high school though means it was probably for the best. I would've just dragged him down with me. I think he got a scholarship offer from a school in Indiana, but wound up going into something with fitness training. Last time I saw him, he was coaching youth basketball. Great, great guy. Didn't take very good care of himself though. lol.

                          You see this all the time with professional athletes. Many of them grew up playing ball together, or they're related, and it's like a big community despite being on different teams. For fans, we love to hate certain guys like Rivers, but we'd love them if they were on our team. Many of us just won't admit it.

                          Yeah. As an aside, I did not mean that we "hated" the opponent so much as hated playing against them. Should have clarified. But yeah, such a great thing when I learned about one of those dudes joining me. Instant chemistry. Fed off them, given I really noticed their energy/enthusiasm, as well as talent.

                          But if I may yet again, sometimes players were not as good as we thought, as opponents. I have specific memories of guys I thought would be good team mates, based on seeing them play a game or two as an opponent. Maybe that had a good game or two. Turns out I was too impressed, given they were not that good after all. I think some sports GMs make poor deals because they somehow overrate opponents.

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                          • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                            Yeah. As an aside, I did not mean that we "hated" the opponent so much as hated playing against them. Should have clarified. But yeah, such a great thing when I learned about one of those dudes joining me. Instant chemistry. Fed off them, given I really noticed their energy/enthusiasm, as well as talent.

                            But if I may yet again, sometimes players were not as good as we thought, as opponents. I have specific memories of guys I thought would be good team mates, based on seeing them play a game or two as an opponent. Maybe that had a good game or two. Turns out I was too impressed, given they were not that good after all. I think some sports GMs make poor deals because they somehow overrate opponents.
                            I have wondered that at times as well. For instance, the Chiefs back in the day see Matt Cassel come off the bench and have a 116 passer rating against them. Then, he goes 10-5, and the Chiefs were like, "Sure". It's a coach, but the Jets bringing in Gase comes to mind.

                            One thing's for sure though, the Buccs definitely got their money's worth on Brady, Gronk, Brown, and Fournette. Fournette never looked like his old self from a couple years ago, IMO, but he got it done.

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                            • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                              I have wondered that at times as well. For instance, the Chiefs back in the day see Matt Cassel come off the bench and have a 116 passer rating against them. Then, he goes 10-5, and the Chiefs were like, "Sure". It's a coach, but the Jets bringing in Gase comes to mind.

                              One thing's for sure though, the Buccs definitely got their money's worth on Brady, Gronk, Brown, and Fournette. Fournette never looked like his old self from a couple years ago, IMO, but he got it done.
                              I totally agree. If we look back at the posts here, I am pretty sure I was impressed with The Bucs chances at the playoffs with Brady, and then Gronk, and then Fournette, and then AB (though not so much). What were their chances without Brady alone? Not good. They paid the money, did the sales pitch, and once you land the bigger fish, the others will follow. Did I expect a SB in year one...no. I watched them play throughout the season, and never did I feel like they had a real shot. BUT, they got better as the playoffs went on, and teams on a roll usually fare well. I was proven wrong as to how deep they would go, but that D kept doing their thing, and some aspects of their O showed up like never before, including a solid Oline, even Gronk.
                              Last edited by CanDB; 02-09-2021, 02:41 PM.

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                              • https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...itt-reid-awake

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