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  • #31
    Bucs remove Gruden from the Ring of Honor, yet keep Antonio Brown on the roster.

    Brown made racially insensitive remarks about the Raiders’ GM before he left Oakland.

    I wonder how Gruden feels about that.
    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
    You Mad Bro?
    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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    • #32
      Originally posted by broncolee View Post

      If the HOF voters remain true to the rules, this will not be a factor.

      However, we saw with Terrell Owens that the voters don’t always adhere to the rules. There’s no way Marvin Harrison should have gotten in before Owens.

      There’s a reason OJ is still a HOFer. On field performance is supposed to be the consideration, not off field issues.
      It shouldn’t be a factor for the HOF voters to consider Gruden. However, the committee is a small cabal of people who see itself as diety. They perceive themselves as knowing more than fans, with a self-appointed duty to ensure their version of morality is upheld. OJ was inducted before the movement to punish wrong-think, a different time.

      On the merits I’m not sure Gruden accomplished enough to convince the committee even if the emails had never leaked.
      Last edited by Fantaztic7; 10-13-2021, 08:54 AM. Reason: Spelling

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      • #33
        So....does anyone have a take on how this will impact The Raiders this weekend, or beyond? The football side of things.

        For me, it may not be obvious this week, because their coaching staff have some form of momentum working together. And the players may be happy just to do what they do, and not get tied up in the conversation. But longer term I believe they might be either hurt by it, if Gruden was effective, or even prosper, as they get accustomed to an Acting HC (I assume for a while) who is a proven commodity, and well respected by the team. Not sure about other options, but usually a team with a good record can do well with some internal shuffle.

        I am pretty sure that some of the players will be happy to see Gruden gone.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

          It shouldn’t be a factor for the HOF voters to consider Gruden. However, the committee is a small cabal of people who see itself as diety. They perceive themselves as knowing more than fans, with a self-appointed duty to ensure their version of morality is upheld. OJ was inducted before the movement to punish wrong-think, a different time.

          On the merits I’m not sure Gruden accomplished enough to convince the committee even if the emails had never leaked.
          The HOF had to release a statement on why OJ wouldn’t be removed because people wanted him removed.

          As for Gruden, I think post Super Bowl really hurt him since most viewed him as winning with Tony Dungy’s team. On the other hand, the only apparent reason Bill Cowher is in the Hall of Fame is because he coached the Steelers for more than 10 years. The Raiders are every bit as iconic as the Steelers.
          My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
          You Mad Bro?
          Don’t Be A Mean Girl

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by broncolee View Post

            The HOF had to release a statement on why OJ wouldn’t be removed because people wanted him removed.

            As for Gruden, I think post Super Bowl really hurt him since most viewed him as winning with Tony Dungy’s team. On the other hand, the only apparent reason Bill Cowher is in the Hall of Fame is because he coached the Steelers for more than 10 years. The Raiders are every bit as iconic as the Steelers.
            The part about Gruden winning a championship with a team Dungy largely built should factor in, although he still had to coach the team to reach the summit. Gruden’s winning % is just over .500 whereas Cowher had a much higher winning %, plus a championship.


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            • #36
              Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

              The part about Gruden winning a championship with a team Dungy largely built should factor in, although he still had to coach the team to reach the summit. Gruden’s winning % is just over .500 whereas Cowher had a much higher winning %, plus a championship.

              Personally, I don’t think Cowher did enough to get in the Hall of Fame. It’s typically more difficult for coaches and executives to get in and it should be. I just think he got a pass for being with the Steelers. I think Eli Manning is going to get in because of his name and no other reason.

              If I were voting, I wouldn’t vote for Gruden either. He did get a lot of hype though throughout his career as a great head coach.
              Last edited by broncolee; 10-13-2021, 07:01 PM.
              My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
              You Mad Bro?
              Don’t Be A Mean Girl

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by broncolee View Post

                Personally, I don’t think Cowher did enough to get in the Hall of Fame. It’s typically more difficult for coaches and executives to get in and it should be. I just think he got a pass for being with the Steelers. I think Eli Manning is going to get in because of his name and no other reason.

                If I were voting, wouldn’t vote for Gruden either. He did get a lot of hype though throughout his career as a great head coach.
                Yes despite Cowher having a better record than Gruden, he was only ranked 20th in winning %. Definitely the halo of the Steelers helped him.

                Gruden had the swagger and said all the things that sounded tough. Not that he was a bad coach by any means, but I think there’s something to be said for the brand he created. He had the broadcasting career which helped shape his image.

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                • #38
                  Seeing Gruden lose his job and literally have his entire career scrubbed from existence is why I like it when this happen to others. We don’t make the rules.
                  Last edited by Fantaztic7; 10-13-2021, 08:50 PM. Reason: Autocorrect

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                  • #39
                    I hope Gruden starts a podcast with game and quarterback/player analysis. He has so much to offer compared with the midwits on ESPN and other networks. With new media to reach fans directly he could develop a good following. I could also see him as a personal coach to develop young quarterbacks.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                      As this is a football site, we should dwell on the impact that his leaving will have. Will The Raiders slide, or maybe they will even improve.

                      As for his comments, based on what I have read/heard, he went too far.
                      I think it is a distraction period, him resigning will be something that will have to be adjusted to, even if minor, it is there. I am glad it happened to the Raiders especially this week.

                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        I hope Gruden starts a podcast with game and quarterback/player analysis. He has so much to offer compared with the midwits on ESPN and other networks. With new media to reach fans directly he could develop a good following. I could also see him as a personal coach to develop young quarterbacks.
                        I hope Gruden becomes a better person.....

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I respect Gruden. The man positively impacted a lot of players and coaches over his career. He stepped up and resigned when he could have fought to stay - completely selfless act.

                          Has anyone not said things they regret? Seriously, reflect and think about whether something was said privately or publicly that wouldn’t be said again.

                          If anyone said something regrettable - that person isn’t good because that’s the assertion about Gruden.

                          The only difference is that Gruden’s emails became public.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                            I respect Gruden. The man positively impacted a lot of players and coaches over his career. He stepped up and resigned when he could have fought to stay - completely selfless act.

                            Has anyone not said things they regret? Seriously, reflect and think about whether something was said privately or publicly that wouldn’t be said again.

                            If anyone said something regrettable - that person isn’t good because that’s the assertion about Gruden.

                            The only difference is that Gruden’s emails became public.
                            Based on what I have read/heard, I admit, I respect him less, though I have liked him for many years. Some folks are supporting him completely, whereas I think he can do some good in terms of what came out of this. He is a well known figure, and can make a positive difference. That's in his control. Those who are popular in terms of their widespread exposure, can be very influential in whatever ways they choose. He no doubt has a football career ahead, and I think he can be a positive force in other ways.

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                            • #44
                              By definition the only reason people changed their view of Gruden is because of a few emails released publicly.

                              If Gruden is no longer a good person based on those emails alone, every player and coach has to be evaluated again. In other words, the person is defined by a few comments in their life. Using that standard for the NFL (and college), players and coaches must have their emails and prior comments released.

                              If players and coaches made comments not known to the public, they should come forward and confess. Then we can determine who is and who isn’t a good person.

                              After all the definition of good person are those that haven’t had their comments leaked to the public. And we know that no one ever makes regrettable comments.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                                I hope Gruden becomes a better person.....
                                Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                                By definition the only reason people changed their view of Gruden is because of a few emails released publicly.

                                If Gruden is no longer a good person based on those emails alone, every player and coach has to be evaluated again. In other words, the person is defined by a few comments in their life. Using that standard for the NFL (and college), players and coaches must have their emails and prior comments released.

                                If players and coaches made comments not known to the public, they should come forward and confess. Then we can determine who is and who isn’t a good person.

                                After all the definition of good person are those that haven’t had their comments leaked to the public. And we know that no one ever makes regrettable comments.
                                I deleted a couple of posts.

                                "Better person". "Good person".

                                Two different things. Hoping someone becomes a "better" person does not mean he's not a "good" person.

                                The ignore feature is a great thing. Less work for the mods, less annoyance for the other members.

                                Or we can find another solution. --- Bolded. Does it get your attention?

                                Any further discussion about my post can be done in PMs or in the Community Issues forum.
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