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Should Vick go to jail???

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  • #31
    Originally posted by eaglesrule View Post
    its simple should M. Vick go to jail
    hell ya he should go to jail a crime is a crime I dont care who it is....
    now days with all the abuse to animals the punishment has gotten a lot harsh..
    he should go to jail for 16 months,500.000 fine then 2 years probation once he gets out of prison....
    NO JAIL TIME PRISON TIME..

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    • #32
      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      Since you want to go on with this, you are proving my point. It is all about how you where raised on how you look at animals. If you could fight pigs and Vick was fighting pigs and killing them, people would not have this same reaction.
      And you still miss the point. It does not matter how you look on dogs, or pigs. Vick grew up knowing that dogfighting was illegal. Doesn't matter if he saw dogs as just like every other animal. Vick hid his operation from society as best he could and tried only let in people who agreed with him. He knew he was breaking the law. Vick lied about his involvement when caught. He knew he was breaking the law.

      Why are you defending him? Cause he's a sports hero?

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      It is only because here we are made Dogs our family that people are so offended by this. Maybe Vick did not get raised that way and he sees them as any other animal. It is all what our society raised you to think. If you where raised in an area that had a lot of dogfighting and your family, friends, and neighbors all liked watching it, you would be the exact same way Vick is now.
      Then, why do our laws and our society say it's illegal? Why isn't it legal in the more rural states where people might be more inclined to accept it? Because almost no one does accept it.

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      For you to not realize this, it makes you a bad person in my opinion.
      And for you to not get it and spend your time defending Vick makes you a stupid one in mine. But I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt because we have a lot of kids on the Broncos boards that wouldn't be able to stand up in adult conversation elsewhere. Please tell me you are only around 14-15 years old. Please don't say you are a college grad. If you are, you should get your money back.

      That's really a stupid argument, can you see? Because someone disagrees with you, you call them a bad person? I imagine you know lots of bad people in your life then because you don't seem sharp enough to have lots of people rushing to join you in defending Vick.

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      Again, I know it is illigal (sic)and have said repeatedly that I think he should be punished for it. It is the reaction to it by people thinking they are so superior to him that is making me respond to it.... I don't know how to say it better than that but you have no understanding of culture or of people.
      But you clearly don't understand what I know or don't know, do you? The only thing you know is that you defend criminals for cruelty and you accuse others of being bad people because they disagree with you.

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      That is just laughable. If you compare an animals life to a humans life, you need to just join PETA or something.
      And you say that like it's a bad thing. Like an organization that defends the otherwise defenseless might be a poor organization to belong to.

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      They are not at all close to being the same. We kill many helpless and defenseless animals every day just by living.
      And that makes it right, how?

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      You think that land your home, school, work, street, pool, and whatever else you use was just vacant when we took it over? You think that wood for the pencil and all the wood in your house had no other purpose than to be a tree?
      Logical fallacy of the non-sequiter. Look it up. Learning new things can be good for you!

      [QUOTE=jhns;1909279]You think all that meat you are eating every day just comes from roadkill?

      JERRY
      Invalid metaphor. While there is no completely humane way to kill animals in slaughterhouses, they still make more effort than Vick. In fact, lets' talk about your euthenasia argument. Animals in shelters are euthenized because there are no homes for them and there are too many for the shelter to care for, so after a certain period of time when they can't place an animal, that animal is put to sleep, humanely, and painlessly.

      Slaughterhouses use a method that puts a bullet or other object through their brain and tries to kill them instantly, with minimal pain and suffering. They do this partly for humane reasons and partly because stress in the animal hurts the meat and therefore their business.

      Now, lets look at Vick. Vick *could* have used those methods to put down his dogs. He could have cultivated a contact in a Vet's office to get the meds, he could had purchased the same devices used in slaughterhouses that are used on pigs and horses. He could even have set up a small kennel to put dogs in and airproofed it as much as possible and fed car exhaust in so the dogs would lay down and go to sleep and have minimal suffering.

      What did Vick do? He threw a rope around a dog's neck and hoisted him into a tree and watched him slowly strangle. He beat dogs to death with clubs and bats. He electrocuted dogs. Ever had a severe shock? The pain is minimal but your body goes through a series of massive muscle spasms that make it nearly impossible to breath and it scares the crap out of you. If you don't believe me, let me use a cattle prod on your genitals a few times and see if it doesn't scare you.

      [QUOTE=jhns;1909279]I can go on and on about this /quote]

      Would you eventually make sense?

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      but if you want to consider humans on the same level as animals, no matter how you kill them, then you have to start thinking that we can kill humans any time it benifits (sic) us and it is only murder if there wasn't a "good enough" reason to kill that person.
      I wasn't going to go there but since you did, let's look at it. People who are discovered later to be sociopaths (unable to discern the difference between right and wrong) and who hurt human beings are known in nearly all cases to have tortured and killed animals before they start torturing and killing people. It's the way we as society try to identify these people and get them treatment before they hurt someone.

      So, let's say here you are, defending a sociopath who can't discern right from wrong, can't know any moral differences.

      Or, lets look at your argument another way. Suppose Vick grew up in an area where certain people were looked at as animals and owned as property. Don't be surprised, in most states laws against dog-fighting pre-date the Civil War as I pointed out to you in my last post and which you couldn't rebut when you said dog fighting laws were new. Now, if people can be treated like property, is it illegal for one man to kill another man who is property? Is it right or wrong? Your logic indicates there is nothing wrong with this action, because the victim is only an animal, correct?

      That IS what you are saying.

      Originally posted by jhns View Post
      Until that happens, everyone needs to stop acting like he is harming other people and realize that they only add to the thinking of people be superior to animals.
      And here you are putting words in my mouth, which I don't like. I never said I was superior to Vick, but if you want to go there as well, I DO think I'm smart enough that if I had a 60 million dollar contract, I would p*** it away by organizing a penny ante dogfighting operation that would lose my career and put me in prison. I think I'm smarter than that. I also am not the kind of person to have unprotected sex with strangers and infect them with herpes and then lie about it, as Vick did.

      Just think, here you are defending a man with no more scruples than that. That would indicate to me that you hero-worship this guy, and I wonder why? Isn't the kind of man he is more important than the money he makes as a sports hero, or are you the kind of person who doesn't care?

      The rest of your post is just the same regurgitated arguments I have already addressed, so I am cutting them here for brevity.
      You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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      • #33
        This was the Biggest No Brainer Poll in the History of This Board.....ah, yes, yes he should go to jail
        "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

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        • #34
          I was defending him before the plea bargain and yes, obviously he needs to go to jail. You do the crime, you do the time.

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          • #35
            Is not does he deserve to. He's going, the only question is for how long.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jhns View Post
              If you could fight pigs and Vick was fighting pigs and killing them, people would not have this same reaction. It is only because here we are made Dogs our family that people are so offended by this. Maybe Vick did not get raised that way and he sees them as any other animal.
              I think most people see chickens as 'any other animal.' There are few kooks with chickens as actual pets but most who own chickens see them as potential dinner not something to play with. Still, **** fighting is just as illegal as dog fighting. I imagine if pig fighting were to reach the level of brutality it would be just as illegal. Saying a person was raised a certain way is not an excuse. If so, racism would still be rampant. It's not gone and that's largely because of gov't sponsored racism, but it's certainly far more subtle than a few years ago. Society has decided it doesn't want or need racism any more just like dog fighting.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kapaibro View Post
                If he is found guilty then he should serve his time.

                I think America is getting tired of seeing 'celebs' getting away with crimes that would see the average citizen locked up, good and proper.
                Yes, but at the same time sometimes 'celebs' are targeted harder than an average 'joe' or 'Joesephine'.

                Originally posted by Jared
                If he is found guilty, he should be given the same sentence as anyone else. He should not be given a tougher or easier sentence than someone who isn't famous.


                So, we need to know what the precedents are.
                This is the point. It should be based on what he did (funding dog fighting, illegal gambling, inhumane treatment of animals, etc.) and then he should be sentenced based on his crimes, not on his fame or the size of his NFL/Nike contract.

                The prosecuters and judges should not go easy on him because of who he is, but they should also not feel they need to make him into an example or go harder on him so it doesn't 'appear' that he is getting off easier.
                The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

                sigpic

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                • #38
                  He used his celebrity status to his own advantage, including chaining dogs to trees on his property, not feeding them or watering them until their ribs protruded out of their bodies, and got them all nice and mean. Then he'd take them out (per his Grandfather's interview) and slice their vocal cords. Then he'd pit his dogs against other dogs to fight (and it was obvious in the video the dogs were not anxious to fight each other, but pushed into it). Then if they lost the fight, he took the dogs and executed them.

                  Yeah....swell guy. Jail?

                  Any person who has the ability to do any of what I just stated, is SICK!

                  Prison is the only appropriate place for him, maybe no water or food, just so he knows how it feels?

                  A monster. For a long time, it's been a proven fact that if people are mean and cruel to animals that human life has little to no meaning to them either. I wonder what else is yet to be discovered about this crack pot.
                  Last edited by His Wife; 08-25-2007, 08:39 AM.
                  "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

                  John Stuart Mill (Look him up )

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by eaglesrule View Post
                    its simple should M. Vick go to jail
                    good thread dude and yes i do think so

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by His Wife View Post
                      He used his celebrity status to his own advantage, including chaining dogs to trees on his property, not feeding them or watering them until their ribs protruded out of their bodies, and got them all nice and mean. Then he'd take them out (per his Grandfather's interview) and slice their vocal cords. Then he'd pit his dogs against other dogs to fight (and it was obvious in the video the dogs were not anxious to fight each other, but pushed into it). Then if they lost the fight, he took the dogs and executed them.

                      Yeah....swell guy. Jail?

                      Any person who has the ability to do any of what I just stated, is SICK!

                      Prison is the only appropriate place for him, maybe no water or food, just so he knows how it feels?

                      A monster. For a long time, it's been a proven fact that if people are mean and cruel to animals that human life has little to no meaning to them either. I wonder what else is yet to be discovered about this crack pot.
                      As a dog lover, I don't think there is ANY punishment too severe for him. However, at this point I would just like to see him punished in line with a non-celebrity.
                      The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        I agree he should spend time in the gray bar motel but it just ain't gonna happen. his co defendents have pleaded guily and they'll rat vick out. vick will plead not guilty to. if he goes to trial then he will lose and face about 5 yrs in a fed pen. he's already been suspended by the league. how long??? got me. I heard the NAACP will go all out to rehab him, dust off the dirt and put him back in society. so they claim. to late. he'll wear this lable like a tatoo the rest of he's life.
                        he'll enter a not guilty plea today:
                        The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is expected Monday morning to formally enter his guilty plea to a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. Then, it's up to U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson to decide whether to accept it.
                        story

                        its up to the judge to accept it????

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