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  • #16
    Originally posted by owninit View Post
    Because everyone knows that being ranked 31st in the league in rushing was 100% Lt's fault. Regardless of sproles YPC average being almost a full yard per carry less than any other year. It had nothing to do with a cobbled togeather o-line, or aging talent that Marty established, nope add one RB, and that's all you need.

    Likewise if Norv trades away picks to move up and get a back with a scouting profile like this.......

    Just force feed him the ball, place all of your hope on him, and know he's going to be able to single handedly carry the running game, and turn this storied franchise into a contender........

    or be the scape goat, as this team suddenly fails expectations yet again
    "
    Nice post. Valid criticisms. The O-Line wasn't that good last year. Mathews had 4 injuries in 3 years. And there are a lot of hopes placed on him.

    Now the rebuttals:

    "Cobbled-together O-line"? Well... not really. McNeill, Deilman and Hardwick were there when LT had his record-breakng season. Clary was there the next year when LT led the league in rushing. And Vasquez had a very solid rookie season, despite all the struggles of the rest of the line last year. Those 5 guys are anything but "cobbled-together" IMO.

    The O-Line was poor primarily because of injuries suffered in the first game of the year. Hardwick missed 15 games, Vasquez missed a few, Clary missed 5, etc. The Broncos suffered some injuries to their line last year as well. What happened? Well, run-blocking suffered. A lot. The fact is that McNeill, Deilman, Hardwick, Vasquez and Clary are all solid starters. McNeill is more of a pass-blocker than a run-blocker, so his absence won't hurt the running game as much as the passing game.

    Mathews' injuries are a definite concern to me, but he still managed to stay healthy enough to lead the NCAA in rushing last year. He dominated in games against ranked opponents. The talent is there. He is clearly an immediate upgrade over the rotting carcass of Ladainian Tomlinson we had back there last year.

    So for a guy that can carry a team he couldn't do it in the NCAA. He wasn't even arguably the best runningback in the class, CJ spiller is more dynamic and can affect more facets of the game. So why is Matthews felt to be the next LT? Somebody please explain.
    "Carry a team"? Really? No, the only player expected to carry San Diego is Philip Rivers.

    The Chargers felt that he was the most "complete RB" in the class. Meaning that he's the kind of workhorse runningback that Norv likes, rather than a situational back and return guy that Spiller appears to be. We already have a guy like that in Darren Sproles.

    "Felt to be the next LT"? Who said that? Find me a quote from anyone saying that Mathews is gonna be the next LT.

    He is expected to be the primary ball-carrier on 1st and 2nd downs. Norv wants him to get about 250 carries and maybe 30-40 catches. If he can muster 4 yards per carry, that is 1000 yards on the season, and a huge upgrade over what we got last year. But nobody is expecting him to carry the team like LT did early in his career.

    And "aging talent that Marty established"...? Well, it's mostly gone. Jamal Williams was cut. So was LT. Lo Neal, Donnie Edwards, Randall Godfrey etc are long gone. The roster is young, and very different from the one fielded in Marty's heyday. It was good enough to get to 13-3 last year, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a contributor besides Stephen Cooper who is obviously on the downside of their career and liable to fall apart.
    Last edited by Chargerbomb; 07-23-2010, 10:39 AM.

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    • #17
      All I can tell you is what I have seen watching Ryan from a distance of about 10 feet at times. He is more than most on the East coast critics are willing to admit. Now, I must admit I'm a little prejudice, but lets look at facts and forget what the rating services are saying.

      Fresno State did not use Ryan as a receiver out of the backfield as that is not their style. I've watched Ryan catch pass after pass from Derek Carr in practice as well as thows from Colburn. The reason I mention Derek is that he puts mustard on the ball like his brother and has one of the strongest arms around. Mathews has no problem catching the ball. In fact he has way above average hands.

      Ryan Mathews might have the best stiff arm since Jimmy Brown and that is no joke. He flat knocks defenders down with his stiff arm. A lot of time it seems like he just shoots through holes, but its because he blasted a defender.

      He is a team guy who is very soft spoken and avoids the limelight. But his teammates love him. He is always team first and you do not find that very often in a star.

      He is an extemely hard worker. His speed is deceptive, because he is as fast or faster in a football uniform as he is in shorts. His legs are huge and he is exceedingly strong. I believe he has around 3% fat which is hard to fathom.

      Some people say he can not juke people. They are flat out crazy when they say that. The ratings that say he might be the most complete back in the draft are absolutely true. They might also be an understatement.

      Another stat is the he was within .01 seconds of Spillers time in the 1st 10 yards at the combine. That means he is as quick basically as Spiller in the 1st 10 yards. He has probably 30 lbs on Spiller weight wise. The 1st 10 yards are the make or break point in the NFL.

      Ryan has amazing vision and patience. He seems to know where the hole is going to develop and waits for the right moment. He comes out of places where no hole seems to exsist. He reacts with great football intelligence.

      Pat Hill and the QBs at Fresno State will tell you he is one of the best blocking backs they have had. He probably got a lesson or two from Lorenzo Neil. He is not afraid to block and does more than an excellent job in doing it. He is very, very strong.

      There is this nonsense that he didn't play against any one. Well, look at what he did against Cincy, Wisconsin, Illinois, Boise State and two years ago UCLA. His best games have been against the best competition. He thrives in those kinds of games.

      I would then add what Turner has said he has seen is that Ryan is a very deceptive runner in that he is so fluid. He does things without effort. He is ever so quick.

      Any one can fail at the NFL level, but I will take the word of Pat Hill and Lorenzo Neil that he might be the best they have seen. I will then add that Norm Turner says he might be just as good as LT. Those are strong words from people who know the business.

      As I have posted in another thread I still do not know how Josh could not even have the guy on our draft board. Some say its because of his upright style of running. I just don't know.

      The one thing I do know is he is very, very, good and he fits SD like a glove. Rivers will love this guy and he will love Rivers as a QB. I have been positing for some time he is going to make SD very tough for us. If he produces the running game I think he can, he will make SD an exceedingly tough team to beat.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chargerbomb View Post
        Nice post. Valid criticisms. The O-Line wasn't that good last year. Mathews had 4 injuries in 3 years. And there are a lot of hopes placed on him.

        Now the rebuttals:

        "Cobbled-together O-line"? Well... not really. McNeill, Deilman and Hardwick were there when LT had his record-breakng season. Clary was there the next year when LT led the league in rushing. And Vasquez had a very solid rookie season, despite all the struggles of the rest of the line last year. Those 5 guys are anything but "cobbled-together" IMO.

        The O-Line was poor primarily because of injuries suffered in the first game of the year. Hardwick missed 15 games, Vasquez missed a few, Clary missed 5, etc. The Broncos suffered some injuries to their line last year as well. What happened? Well, run-blocking suffered. A lot. The fact is that McNeill, Deilman, Hardwick, Vasquez and Clary are all solid starters. McNeill is more of a pass-blocker than a run-blocker, so his absence won't hurt the running game as much as the passing game.

        Mathews' injuries are a definite concern to me, but he still managed to stay healthy enough to lead the NCAA in rushing last year. He dominated in games against ranked opponents. The talent is there. He is clearly an immediate upgrade over the rotting carcass of Ladainian Tomlinson we had back there last year.



        "Carry a team"? Really? No, the only player expected to carry San Diego is Philip Rivers.

        The Chargers felt that he was the most "complete RB" in the class. Meaning that he's the kind of workhorse runningback that Norv likes, rather than a situational back and return guy that Spiller appears to be. We already have a guy like that in Darren Sproles.

        "Felt to be the next LT"? Who said that? Find me a quote from anyone saying that Mathews is gonna be the next LT.

        He is expected to be the primary ball-carrier on 1st and 2nd downs. Norv wants him to get about 250 carries and maybe 30-40 catches. If he can muster 4 yards per carry, that is 1000 yards on the season, and a huge upgrade over what we got last year. But nobody is expecting him to carry the team like LT did early in his career.

        And "aging talent that Marty established"...? Well, it's mostly gone. Jamal Williams was cut. So was LT. Lo Neal, Donnie Edwards, Randall Godfrey etc are long gone. The roster is young, and very different from the one fielded in Marty's heyday. It was good enough to get to 13-3 last year, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a contributor besides Stephen Cooper who is obviously on the downside of their career and liable to fall apart.

        That's all nice and dandy, and i never said denver's running game was spotless last year, I'm the first to admit that the o-line blocking broke down, but denver didn't trade up to get a RB because the running game didn't work either, matter of fact they drafted linemen.....


        The two ranked opponenets that Fresno played.....Boise State & Cincinatti...


        Sure the boise state stats look great until you realize he had 7 rushing yards in the first Quarter, while Boise state creted a 20 point lead..... He broke a 50 yard run and a 60 yard run in the second quarter, but boise routed them so bad that they had b teamers in mid second quarter. All the stats in the world don't matter when your loosing so bad it doesn't count. Passing for 400 yards is junk when you still loose by 30 points. It's junk yards.

        he got 145 yards rushing against a Cincy team that had the most explosive offense in college football, which was good becuase there defense couldn't stop anyone....

        I would weigh in his rushing stats against ranked teams so heavily....


        they believe he was the most complete back in the draft based entirely off his numbers at the combine, and huge stats at a lower tier school, not through actually watching him play football. It's Al Davis type scouting at it's best. Paired next to sproles you need a workhorse back, who can take hits, i don't think he fits that all to well.


        I think he'll be a good back, not great, but the problems in the blocking, it wasn't all LT's fault, even sproles was getting stuffed, and you have the only real linemen left holding out....
        Last edited by owninit; 07-23-2010, 10:54 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by owninit View Post
          That's all nice and dandy, and i never said denver's running game was spotless last year, I'm the first to admit that the o-line blocking broke down, but denver didn't trade up to get a RB because the running game didn't work either, matter of fact they drafted linemen.....


          The two ranked opponenets that Fresno played.....Boise State & Cincinatti...


          Sure the boise state stats look great until you realize he had 7 rushing yards in the first Quarter, while Boise state creted a 20 point lead..... He broke a 50 yard run and a 60 yard run in the second quarter, but boise routed them so bad that they had b teamers in mid second quarter. All the stats in the world don't matter when your loosing so bad it doesn't count. Passing for 400 yards is junk when you still loose by 30 points. It's junk yards.

          he got 145 yards rushing against a Cincy team that had the most explosive offense in college football, which was good becuase there defense couldn't stop anyone....

          I would weigh in his rushing stats against ranked teams so heavily....


          they believe he was the most complete back in the draft based entirely off his numbers at the combine, and huge stats at a lower tier school, not through actually watching him play football. It's Al Davis type scouting at it's best. Paired next to sproles you need a workhorse back, who can take hits, i don't think he fits that all to well.


          I think he'll be a good back, not great, but the problems in the blocking, it wasn't all LT's fault, even sproles was getting stuffed, and you have the only real linemen left holding out....

          I think if you check you will find Ryan had 3 60+ yard TD runs against Boise. I believe two were in the 1st half. The game started with Ryan Colburn throwing an interception on the 1st series which resulted in an immediate TD for the Boise. We were behind and in the hole until Ryan started running.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by owninit View Post
            That's all nice and dandy, and i never said denver's running game was spotless last year, I'm the first to admit that the o-line blocking broke down, but denver didn't trade up to get a RB because the running game didn't work either, matter of fact they drafted linemen.....
            The Broncos didn't draft a right tackle. Why? Because they knew Ryan Harris would be back. Likewise, Hardwick and Clary are fully healthy now. Running back was clearly a bigger need than any of the positions on the OLine. Again, the Chargers believe the struggles in the running game were due to LT and injuries. LT blames the line, the GM and the coach. We will see who is right in just a few months.



            they believe he was the most complete back in the draft based entirely off his numbers at the combine, and huge stats at a lower tier school, not through actually watching him play football. It's Al Davis type scouting at it's best. Paired next to sproles you need a workhorse back, who can take hits, i don't think he fits that all to well.
            Yeah, I'm sure the Chargers didn't watch any game film on Mathews. Their scouts are too busy watching porn to look at game tape. Right.

            Mathews has the size of a workhorse back, and he's the kind of between-the-tackles runner that Norv loves. At the same time, he has the speed to break long runs, something that the Chargers haven't had ever since LT slowed down in 2007. Again, durability is a question, but it's tough to project those kinds of things. Peterson suffered a lot of injuries in college, but he has been durable so far in the pros.

            I think he'll be a good back, not great, but the problems in the blocking, it wasn't all LT's fault, and you have the only real linemen left holding out....
            If Mathews is "just" a good back, it'll be a huge upgrade over last year's version of LT who tripped over his own feet more times than I cared to count. For a team whose biggest weakness is the running game followed by questions about run defense, that addresses 1 of those 2 problems.

            "The only real linemen left"? What does that mean? Again, McNeill is not the Chargers best run-blocker. That would be Deilman, followed by Hardwick. Having a guy like Thomas or Dombrowski cover the left tackle position will hurt the pass-blocking, but not the run-blocking. I like McNeill, but run-blocking is simply not his strength.
            Last edited by Chargerbomb; 07-23-2010, 11:07 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by owninit View Post
              That's all nice and dandy, and i never said denver's running game was spotless last year, I'm the first to admit that the o-line blocking broke down, but denver didn't trade up to get a RB because the running game didn't work either, matter of fact they drafted linemen.....


              The two ranked opponenets that Fresno played.....Boise State & Cincinatti...


              Sure the boise state stats look great until you realize he had 7 rushing yards in the first Quarter, while Boise state creted a 20 point lead..... He broke a 50 yard run and a 60 yard run in the second quarter, but boise routed them so bad that they had b teamers in mid second quarter. All the stats in the world don't matter when your loosing so bad it doesn't count. Passing for 400 yards is junk when you still loose by 30 points. It's junk yards.

              he got 145 yards rushing against a Cincy team that had the most explosive offense in college football, which was good becuase there defense couldn't stop anyone....

              I would weigh in his rushing stats against ranked teams so heavily....


              they believe he was the most complete back in the draft based entirely off his numbers at the combine, and huge stats at a lower tier school, not through actually watching him play football. It's Al Davis type scouting at it's best. Paired next to sproles you need a workhorse back, who can take hits, i don't think he fits that all to well.


              I think he'll be a good back, not great, but the problems in the blocking, it wasn't all LT's fault, even sproles was getting stuffed, and you have the only real linemen left holding out....
              uhh no, MM isn't even our best lineman. also, no they did not draft entirely off his numbers at the combine, you are very misinformed judging by this post.

              if you look at every top tier back in the draft, Mathews by far was the best guy that fit the description of what they were looking for.

              please do tell me which back you think they should have drafted instead and before you say cj spiller, don't because we already have a scat back in sproles.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by IbarHarry View Post
                I think if you check you will find Ryan had 3 60+ yard TD runs against Boise. I believe two were in the 1st half. The game started with Ryan Colburn throwing an interception on the 1st series which resulted in an immediate TD for the Boise. We were behind and in the hole until Ryan started running.

                Boise dominated that game top to bottom...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                  uhh no, MM isn't even our best lineman. also, no they did not draft entirely off his numbers at the combine, you are very misinformed judging by this post.

                  if you look at every top tier back in the draft, Mathews by far was the best guy that fit the description of what they were looking for.

                  please do tell me which back you think they should have drafted instead and before you say cj spiller, don't because we already have a scat back in sproles.

                  I think linemen would have done as much as anything.....


                  Getting one of the top two backs in the draft doesn't mean much if it's not a strong rb class...

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                  • #24
                    Must be a slow day in the smack section, for the riff raff to wander out of their hole....

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                    • #25
                      mathews will get close to 20 carries a game! That alone figures in for some pretty nice yardage...Also he is their best goaline threat...Yes the FB, whatever his name is can push a pile, but he is still better as a grader, leading the charge for mathews.

                      So most of the goaline will be his..Lets not discount the bolts offense, they will see many many many redzone trips and without VJ, that leaves more balls to gates, floyd and RB..Sproles will steal some, but why not spread out the D and pound the rock?


                      I do not think he is the super talented guy that will blow the league away...But I do think, he is a good player, who has a smaller ceiling, but he does not need to have a great one either. He can do exactly what the bolts need. Break tackles, run over people, and score....maybe like a rudi johnson or a not quite as good ced benson...even though his numbers might be better than his this year...

                      Still a good player and a great back for what the bolts needed.
                      So far:
                      FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
                      1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
                        mathews will get close to 20 carries a game! That alone figures in for some pretty nice yardage...Also he is their best goaline threat...Yes the FB, whatever his name is can push a pile, but he is still better as a grader, leading the charge for mathews.

                        So most of the goaline will be his..Lets not discount the bolts offense, they will see many many many redzone trips and without VJ, that leaves more balls to gates, floyd and RB..Sproles will steal some, but why not spread out the D and pound the rock?


                        I do not think he is the super talented guy that will blow the league away...But I do think, he is a good player, who has a smaller ceiling, but he does not need to have a great one either. He can do exactly what the bolts need. Break tackles, run over people, and score....maybe like a rudi johnson or a not quite as good ced benson...even though his numbers might be better than his this year...

                        Still a good player and a great back for what the bolts needed.
                        I'm not trying to say he won't be good, or won't help out, but their running game was 31st in the league. Improving it won't be hard. however there are some big question marks with McNeil wanting a new deal, and knowing if the injuries from last year are going to cause problems. I don't think it's as simple as add a new RB, and have things back to normal.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by IbarHarry View Post
                          I think if you check you will find Ryan had 3 60+ yard TD runs against Boise. I believe two were in the 1st half. The game started with Ryan Colburn throwing an interception on the 1st series which resulted in an immediate TD for the Boise. We were behind and in the hole until Ryan started running.
                          yeah that was terrible.


                          What really killed us were their returns, i think had we had better coverage we woulda won that game.

                          Plus we almost picked it off in the 4th quarter that woulda stopped their last td, and given us a shot to win... dammit.


                          i was at that game, was great

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
                            The only thing i was questioning on his nfl career was his speed, but he showed that he has that too by running a 4.4 as a 5'11 225 lbs rb...
                            he is 6'- 218 you know around the same size as moreno.,

                            beanie wells as a sick ass stiff arm watch his game against he packer where knocks a guy flat with his stiffarm and gets a TD.

                            lastly matthews will be around the same level as a Knowshon Moreno in production nexyt year

                            i am not sold on Tra Thomas as your LT.
                            sigpic
                            oakland raders gm
                            latavis murray trade bait

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by IbarHarry View Post
                              I think if you check you will find Ryan had 3 60+ yard TD runs against Boise. I believe two were in the 1st half. The game started with Ryan Colburn throwing an interception on the 1st series which resulted in an immediate TD for the Boise. We were behind and in the hole until Ryan started running.
                              Watching those plays, they're more on the Boise State defense than Mathews. Honestly, Boise State blew it's run coverage in each of those plays. All those plays prove is that Mathews has nice speed, not much else.
                              Only fools bet against Tim Tebow.

                              Team Tebow #108

                              Yards, without points, mean nothing.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DancingHorsey View Post
                                Watching those plays, they're more on the Boise State defense than Mathews. Honestly, Boise State blew it's run coverage in each of those plays. All those plays prove is that Mathews has nice speed, not much else.
                                Mathews must be the luckiest guy in the world.


                                i don't get what you are trying to say by that post...

                                99% of td's are from blown coverages.. that is the definition of a td... something the defense doesn't want to happen usually.
                                Last edited by 12and4; 07-23-2010, 12:11 PM.

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