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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncomania96 View Post
    I agree with Gem. Most of us joined this site to talk about the broncos, and meet people who had the same passion we did. And to leave this board because of IP points and a background cahage is stupid. The new style wasnt my favorite at first but i got used to it and dont really care about it anymore. I mean its getting stupid to read the same posts over and over in feedback. If your want to leave, leave but dont start a thread and make us feel sorry for you. I mean if your that upset about a few minor changes i question weither you are a true fan at all or just want to talk to the people here. Were here to talk about the broncos and joke around with other, not be little kids and complain about your eyes hurting and how your leaving the board. Go to orange mane but dont come back here and expect us to welcome you back.


    Exactly.




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  2. #32
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    Nice letter tned.

    Even though I disagree with you it's a good post.
    the space that is mine


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    We miss 'ya brother dime. We know your up there jamming with Cliff and Chuck. Stay metal

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpryce93 View Post
    Nice letter tned.

    Even though I disagree with you it's a good post.
    Thanks.

    Life, and message boards, would be boring if we all agreed 100% of the time.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Harbula View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to put together that post, tned. It's an interesting perspective.

    What's clear is that most of us really have the same interest at heart -- the health and viability of this community. We just have different opinions on how to accomplish that.

    This forum will continue to remain what it's always been -- a place for Broncos fans to interact with each other. And that will continue to include civil and constructive criticism of players, coaches and even web staff.

    I'll repeat what has already been said other times in other places. More changes are still in the works in response to the feedback we've received since we upgraded the forums and brought our different online community initiatives together under one umbrella. And has been pointed out by others in this thread, many changes have already been made.

    This community, like any other, is constantly in flux. Old members will leave, and it doesn't have to be anybody's "fault" when they choose to do so. New members will continue to arrive, and what will always matter most in determining whether they stay is the quality of the discourse and how welcome they are made to feel.

    Thanks again for the continued feedback.
    Sorry, I do appreciate the response, but the content is still the same. It's still non-commital, and just sounds like another "we'll see what we can do".

    Please just answer this first ... will the color of the background be changed (yes/no)? I'd like to ask what the timeline will be, but for now, just answering yes or no will be a big deal. Thanks.

    WINS: @Buffalo, Oakland, Jacksonville, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, @Detroit, Tennessee, @Chicago, @Oakland, Kansas City, @Houston, Minnesota

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  5. #35
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    Apr 2007
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    great letter you summed it up..
    I hate alot of things that have been going on in the last 2 months...
    and we have a lost a few great members because of it....
    you think something would be done about it...
    thank you for the letter and sticking up for all us members..

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NuggetFan View Post
    I am pretty much use to the new look. I don't like it but I am use to it.

    What I am sick over is the attitude of the higher ups that basically say take it or leave it, we don't care.

    That is exactly the response they are giving the people that are having issues, and that type of attitude is for the birds.
    They aren't saying take it or leave it the way people are taking it. They are saying this is how it will be until we can make the necessary changes, and that is what has to be taken or left. People keep thinking that nobody is trying to change anything, but it has been said numerous times that they are trying to make changes and that it isn't as easy as everyone is thinking it is. They will make the changes, it may be soon or it may not be for another couple months. The Bengals board changed about half a month before I joined, and a lot of people didn't like it... I stopped posting for awhile because it was just something I couldn't get used to, and some of the new changes made it more difficult to even read thread, and they just now changed it again. This isn't an overnight thing, and they aren't going to commit to something that they don't know yet, that would make them look a helluva lot worse than they do by saying they are working on it.
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  7. #37
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    And people think we OVER moderate....


    Back on topic, please people... the topic is constructive discussion of the changes made to this forum.


    Cinny... while I was already hard at work on this thread when I got the email... You butchered that word.
    Thanks, Reid!

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  8. #38
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    People, PLEASE rather than respond to CoC violations, including flaming... REPORT them, and leave them alone... you're causing more clean up for the mods that eventually get there... and your responses could also cause you to get in trouble as well.
    Thanks, Reid!

    Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

  9. #39
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    dont bother man....some people can't be reasoned with

    anyhow, what would be really cool is if somehow admin, mods, steve and the fans could all vote. i know its hard to make everyone happy but i really hate seeing people leave....this is the main problem...nothing else.

    there are a few things i do enjoy. like seeing the featured bronco fans randomly pop up on the front page. thats pretty cool if you ask me. but if 95% of the active members prefer a few things then isnt it time to evaluate the problem?
    Last edited by LordTrychon; 09-01-2007 at 09:46 PM.

  10. #40
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    DenBronx... I know some people are just impossible, and I know he is one of them, but with how ridiculous the conversations about this crap already is posts like that just irk me... I do agree on what you say with the changes, but as I posted earlier in the thread, I honestly believe that Steve and them are working very hard at trying to get the correct changes implemented and it is going to take time just like anything else does. We need to be patient and sooner or later we will be able to get what we want... at least IMO.
    Last edited by Peanut; 06-18-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Awesome letter tned. I happen to agree 100% with all of it.

    This message board was created for the fans to get together and talk about a passion that is common within all of us, either the Broncos or football as a whole. Without those fans who joined this message board, what has become BM would be non-existent. What it seems the admin/mods/who ever have failed to realize is that now they aren't doing things for those fans anymore. I've put a lot of time in to this message board, just like a lot of others have, and the constant unwillingness to change over the course of the past couple of months has left a bad taste in my mouth. Staring at a white back ground is a) not good for your eyes and b) is annoying as all hell. There was nothing wrong with the blue background. It made this site the most unique vBulletin message board I have ever visted. But, since the people who make the decisions 'round these parts aren't making decisions to please the masses anymore, I've also jumped on the bandwagon and won't be posting here often anymore.

    It really is sad to see people who made this site what it is get shat on.

    FWIW...I don't want a Denver Broncos Visa card either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier96B View Post
    i also took a crap and it was orange

  12. #42
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    Oct 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
    Broncos' Web Staff:

    I know you have a lot of things to deal with, but you dropped the ball on these forum changes and people's patience is running out.

    It appears that somewhere along the way, the administrators of this site forgot that we are your customers and that while it may be a 'privilege' for us to post here, we are also the very people that provide the revenue for the team to have websites like this. In fact, it is a ‘privilege’, not a right, for you to have us as ‘customers.’

    The problems on this board are the equivalent of Amazon or LL Bean shipping the wrong items to one of their customers. In other words, it is a way to lose customers.

    I just read a thread about a long time, highly respected poster, who decided a week or so ago to leave the message boards, and it appears that the difficulty reading the message board with this ridiculous color scheme was a major factor. It is very possible that some of the other changes, and the presentation of those changes as “this is what it is and you will get used to it” might have contributed, but that is hard to say.

    There are a couple very direct things I have to get off my chest, because as a 20+ year Broncos fan AND customer, who has great admiration for the organization, I feel an obligation to state these facts.

    You have lost sight of the fact that the forum members ARE your customers. This year I will spend $350 for NFL Sunday Ticket and Superfan (HD games), which is direct money paid to the NFL, some of which will go to the Broncos. This is on top of the fact that CBS, ESPN, NBC and Fox pay big money to the NFL to have the right to carry the games so fans like me will watch the games and their commercials. However, what I spend is peanuts compared to some of your customers on this forum that have season tickets or even club level season tickets.

    On top of that, I will spend a couple hundred dollars minimum on shirts, hats, golf gear, etc. I am not alone; the forum members most likely represent some of the top 'spenders' when it comes to buying tickets, TV packages and other Broncos merchandise. That is what customers do, they spend money, thereby generating revenue for a company, which in this case is the NFL and the Broncos organization.

    This forum is not a privilege that you grant us. It is a marketing tool. It is a customer retention tool. In terms of the sales game, it is a lead generating tool, which helps generate new customers. If a customer called up LL Bean and the phone system was in horrible shape and screeched in the customers ears to the point of pain, would you expect them to stay on the line to place their order? If the person that answered the phone was rude and gave the impression that LL Bean could care less if that person was a customer or not, would you expect them to complete the order or to place another order in the future? This ridiculous color scheme is the visual equivalent of that screech on the telephone line. The reaction (both in words, but more importantly lack of action) is the equivalent of a customer service agent making clear that the company could care less if you place an order with them. Can you imagine calling up Lands End and being told that it is a ‘privilege’ to place an order with them?

    This ridiculous color scheme is the equivalent of packing woman's panties in a customer's box, when the customer order a men's down parka.

    The very fact that you have used the message board to try and promote the failed concept of Broncos Country and felt there was some gain in plastering credit card and other ads all over the forum, confirms the obvious. This is a site used to reach out to the "customers" of the Broncos organization. However, when dealing with customers, good customer service is required.

    The time for excuses is over. It is time to clean up the mess that the web staff, or their third-party vendor, has made. Having your 'customers' get so upset or frustrated that they walk away from this community is not a good thing. More importantly, the fact that is happening, along with the outcry that you have heard in the polls and other feedback threads, make it very clear that these changes have not been received well AND that it isn't just a case of people taking time to get used to change.

    Sometimes in life, people, employees or companies have to do a mea culpa. They have to first accept and then admit that a mistake was made, and finally fix the mistake. Companies are forgiven when shipping errors are made, or a credit card charged twice, etc., if they accept responsibility for the mistake, fix it, and convince their customers that they will strive to make sure the same mistake does not happen again. Obviously, New Coke/Coke Classic is one of the more famous mea culpas by corporate America. If Coke had dug in their heals, and buried their heads in the sand, with an attitude of “people will get used to the new Coke,” the company likely would have suffered far greater than it did by quickly reacting to and fixing their failed product ‘upgrade.’

    It is time for the same to be done at Broncomania. The Broncos' 'customers', which the vast majority of forum members are, have been extremely patient with this botched forum 'upgrade'. Now, it is time to stop telling people that the changes are better than what they had before and that they will get used to them, and start realizing that you must take responsibility for the mistakes and misjudgments, convince your customers that you not only will fix the mistakes, but will strive to not make similar ones in the future.

    I must take a moment to talk directly about the color scheme. I posted 30 or so examples of other forums that DON'T use a white background with black text. It simply is not common among high traffic, quality forums. It is simply too hard to read. I know I suggested, and it has been hinted, that alternate skins or themes might be released so forum members will have the 'choice' to use the ill conceived Broncos Country theme, or one that is not literally painful to use.

    While that solution, if it ever comes, would be great for us existing forum members, it is short sighted (much like this color scheme and attempting to use the Broncomania forum traffic to sell credit cards and Broncos Country). All of us had to come to Broncomania for the first time. My first time was about three years ago, but yesterday or tomorrow will be someone else’s first time.

    The point that I think the Broncos' web staff is failing to grasp is that this color scheme is not a failure because the members of this forum don't like change, but instead it is a failure because it is a color scheme avoided in forum use for a reason. It is simply too hard to read posts, especially for any extended period of time.

    The question the staff should be asking themselves is what type of 'first' impression the message board will create for a person that sees it for the first time tomorrow or next week. Unfortunately, an objective answer to that question will be that the forum will not make a good first impression. First, that customer will experience a color scheme that simply doesn't work for forum use. Second, that customer will be inundated with ads for credit cards, magazines, etc. Third, they will find that long time forum members are leaving due to not only ill conceived changes being implemented, but the lack of action by the Broncos’ staff to fix the mistakes.

    Not so long ago, Scandinavian airlines was in a tailspin. The company was struggling and losing money. The CEO realized that the company only had a small number of opportunities to make an impression on their customers. These 'points of contact' were when a person called up to make a reservation; checked in at the airport; boarded the plane; etc. It was the times when the customer and airline came into contact with each other and where the customers perception of Scandinavian airlines could be affected, positively or negatively. He determined that by focusing on making each point of contact a good experience, then he would get more repeat business and those happy customers would recommend Scandinavian airlines to other people. The company’s turn around is considered a great business success story, and it started by focusing on making each point of contact between the airline and their customer a better experience.

    This forum is one of the Broncos points of contact with their customers. Its use is not a privilege that you are granting us. This forum and the Denver Broncos website are not here out of the goodness of Pat Bowlen's heart, they are here to service and market to the Broncos customers. This is a point of contact for many thousands of the Broncos customers, and right now it is not a positive one. In the same way that you would fix a problem in a shipping department if orders were going out wrong, or retrain customer service staff if their were complaints of rude behavior by that staff, it is imperative that this point of contact with your customer is also fixed.

    It's time accept the fact you introduced New Coke and either bring back Coke Classic, or produce another formula change VERY, VERY quickly, because the longer the company stays in denial about the impact these ill conceived changes have had on their customers, the more likely they are to lose customers, in this modern world of fickle fans that change team allegiance or even league allegiance at the drop of the hat. So, unless you want people to stop buying Broncos jerseys and start buying Colts jerseys, or even Yankees, Rockets or Heat jerseys, it is time to admit that even with the best intentions, you wound up with a failed upgrade and that you must fix the problems quickly, rather than expecting your customers to 'adapt' to your mistakes.

    T
    Con't below
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  13. #43
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    Oct 2004
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    I crossed the 10,000 character limit when I tried to bump my post and post this addition, so here is the addition:

    After being hit with the newest HUGE banner ad across the top, which doesn't even properly blend into the color scheme of the site, I thought it was time to bump my post from last year.

    While adding the grey under the text was a huge relief to the eyes, the plastering of ads everywhere, without even taking the time ensure that they fit seamlessly within the vBulletin style/skin/theme looks horrible.

    Considering the class organization that the Broncos are, and even how nice the main website looks, it's time to get someone that knows what they are doing with vBulletin styles involved and get the message board cleaned up. Plenty of sites have ads, without it looking like they were haphazardly copy and pasted into the website code.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  14. #44
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    May 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnedator View Post
    I crossed the 10,000 character limit when I tried to bump my post and post this addition, so here is the addition:

    After being hit with the newest HUGE banner ad across the top, which doesn't even properly blend into the color scheme of the site, I thought it was time to bump my post from last year.

    While adding the grey under the text was a huge relief to the eyes, the plastering of ads everywhere, without even taking the time ensure that they fit seamlessly within the vBulletin style/skin/theme looks horrible.

    Considering the class organization that the Broncos are, and even how nice the main website looks, it's time to get someone that knows what they are doing with vBulletin styles involved and get the message board cleaned up. Plenty of sites have ads, without it looking like they were haphazardly copy and pasted into the website code.
    lmao. I vote yardo.


    Tned, do you use firefox? I'm sure you've heard of the stylish add on. Works like a charm.


    But anyways. I remember reading this thread way back when, and now I think I'll leave a little remark.

    "Don't fix what's not broke."

    The blue was perfect. Matched team colors, and was very easy on the eyes. I don't know how often the Broncomania web developers VIEW this site, but I'll bet my membership it's far less then the average poster here.


    "An Online Community Connecting Fans Of The Denver Broncos"

    Hell, half of the people who I talked Broncos with when I started are pretty much off to other message boards or gone.... Yet, these colors (in which more people are against than for) seem to help create an opposite trend of "connecting Bronco fans."

    It's kind of sad really...
    Last edited by Peerless; 08-21-2008 at 10:49 PM.

  15. #45
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    Oct 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by B4Bronco6 View Post
    lmao. I vote yardo.


    Tned, do you use firefox? I'm sure you've heard of the stylish add on. Works like a charm.


    But anyways. I remember reading this thread way back when, and now I think I'll leave a little remark.

    "Don't fix what's not broke."

    The blue was perfect. Matched team colors, and wise very easy on the eyes. I don't know how often the Broncomania web developers VIEW this site, but I doubt it's far less then the average poster here.


    "An Online Community Connecting Fans Of The Denver Broncos"

    Hell, half of the people who I talked Broncos with when I started are pretty much off to other message boards or gone.... Yet, these colors (in which more people are against than for) seem to help create an opposite trend of "connecting Bronco fans."

    It's kind of sad really...
    I know the Firefox trick. When Yardo came up with it and was perfecting the CSS templates, I was trying to help out and posted some CSS templates as well. I know in firefox you can remove banner ads.

    The point is that since long time users of this site are being forced to go to firefox, create their own CSS templates, and remove the banner ads, should tell the web staff something.

    The fact that new people are exposed first to a nice clean, homepage, and then to this mess that looks like it was thrown together by someone like me with no graphical talent, should be an embarrassment to the Broncos front office.

    There are times when the reply buttons are under the side ads, the top add was just thrown up there with no attempt to blend it in. The list goes on and on.

    Here's an example. www.broncos07.com which is what drives my sig, was done by me. It looks like crap. The banners were done by Dream (I think he did both), which helps, because my original banners REALLY made the site look like crap.

    When I created www.totalbroncos.com, another news/blog site, mostly intended to create backlinks to BF, I paid someone else to create to the template/theme/style, so it wouldn't look like total crap, like broncos07. TB isn't perfect, but has a MUCH better look than 07, because it was done by a professional, which I then modded a little.

    You take a look at them, they are worlds of difference. This site is beginning to more and more resemble the kind of crap that I (broncos07), and other graphically challenged amateurs, can do, rather than having a professional look and feel, which anything that is part of the Broncos organization should have.

    The Broncos are my passion and I hate to see them represented in such a shabby way.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


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