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  1. #31
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    Read my original post (everyone that is saying that ALL teams have bad drafts)....

    I did say pretty much that exact thing!!!!

    Reading comprehension is lacking a bit on the boards

  2. #32
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    I've never been to the Orange Mane forums before - are there less idiots there? Threads like this one make me cry at their complete ignorance.
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    My adopted Bronco is Chris Kuper. Huzzah!

    I am the raid leader for this World of Warcraft guild. Yay us!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    I've been a severe critic of Shanahan's drafting in in the past. It was pretty much horrible from 1999 (WR Marcus Nash) past 2002 (Ashlie Lelie) to 2003 (George Foster, Terry Pierce).

    But, after that starting in 2004 and continuing, his drafting has improved remarkably. This years' draft was very probably the best ever of his career.

    First of all, you can't take much credit or assign much blame for 2nd day (4th or later round) picks. If they hit, that's often luck (if you throw enough darts at the board some are going to stick). Does Shanahan deserve credit for picking Terrell Davis in the 6th round? NO! If anybody had any idea how good he was, he wouldn't have lasted past the first pick!

    If they fail, well that's why they were 4th or later round picks in the first place. They weren't expected to succeed. A GM is really rated by his first day picks alone. So, forget about those 6th rounders you never heard of, they don't count.

    So, starting in 2004.

    2004: Mixed bag. D.J. Williams and Tatum Bell. D.J. is starting and Tatum was traded for another pick. So hit, bust. Darius Watts and Jeremy LeSueur were busts. 1 out of 4 isn't great.

    2005: This starts the really good drafts. Darrent Williams, Dominque Foxworth both became starters. Darrent would be starting now but for his death and Foxworth is the nickel back and a valuable one. Maurice Clarett was a supplemental 3rd round pick, not much of a loss there. Getting 2 immediate starters in the 2nd & 3rd rounds is pretty solid drafting (Foxworth played a lot his rookie year due to injuries to Champ and Williams).

    2006: Excellent pre-draft moves to move up to #15 and then draft day trade which Shanahan deftly pulled off, keeping all the other teams from knowing what he was about until the Rams were on the clock and then completing the pick and getting his franchise QB of the future.

    Then trading the 1st of his 2nd round picks for Javon Walker. Great trade.

    2nd Round - Tony Sheffler. Jury's still out on him, but he's an exciting pass-receiver and a favorite target for Cutler, so he could be very good indeed. Slowed by injury this year so far.

    Brandon Marshall -- already paying dividends as #2 WR.

    Elvis Dumervil - Outrageously great 4th round pick, the best Bronco pass-rusher right now he's only going to get better.

    2007: This draft may prove the best one ever for Shanahan. Moss, Crowder, Tim Ryan won't see much action on the O-line, but O-linemen take 2 years or more to learn Denver's system, Marcus Thomas may be the steal of the draft. He was projected to be a top 15 pick before being kicked off Florida for smoking dope and bailing out of his rehab program. He's an exception to the rule about 2nd day draft picks don't count. He was really a 1st round pick who only slid because of character concerns.

    He's kept straight so far and looks like a gamble that paid off.

    Moss and Crowder have looked good for rookies in limited action so far and have tremendous potential. Both should be starting by next season unless Dumervil continues to keep Moss off the field by his great play (which is possible, but hardly a problem). Thomas has been mediocre, but he's been in for more snaps than the others because of the crying need at DT. That will only help his development for next season.

    So, to sum up, Shanahan's last 4 drafts have gone from poor to superb and you can see the improvement year by year.

    NO WAY can ANYONE criticize Shanahan for draft day failure these days.

    At most you can argue that the current DL problems stem from his failure to draft good DTs in the past, but the players he did get the last 3 years have been pretty good. Reggie Hayward and Bert Berry might have been kept, but both were DEs and that's not the Broncos problem this year.

    Shanahan's one draft failure was the failure to use a high round draft pick between 2000 and 2004 on a DT (other than Paul Toviesi, who had a degenerative knee condition and never played for the Broncos). If he had done that and had succeeded, the run defense wouldn't suck so bad this year. But, that failure was a long time ago and doesn't reflect his current drafting, which is now excellent.
    Thank you! Finally an honest post!
    yes. his drafting has royally sucked in the past.
    Yes. There have been some slam dunk players who contributed to the Broncos
    Deltha Oneill did some good things......until like many players, Shenanigans alienated him and got rid of him. (Bertrand Berry or Reggie Hayward or Trevor Pryce anyone?)
    Hes done it before, he'll do it again. Its just his way...
    THis is what i dont like. For every good draft pick, he gets rid of em and now gee, the broncos could really, really use him!!
    He burns alot of bridges i guess and ends up stranding himself with players.
    Then he goes out and makes a trade or picks up a FA thinking, it will just fix everything.
    And yes his drafting has gotten considerably better since 2005. I will the CB draft a pass so far.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
    I've never been to the Orange Mane forums before - are there less idiots there? Threads like this one make me cry at their complete ignorance.
    During the season many casual fans post. During the off-season it's possible to have serious discussions between fans who actually know something about the history of the team.

    For instance there are many draft discussions, and few of them are marred by arguments that Shanahan sucks at drafting because he missed on some 4th rounders. They have better arguments than that.

    It's really strange, when Shanahan's drafting has totally turned around the last 3 years to see criticism. Years ago people tended to give him some slack. When I ripped his drafting Deltha O'Neal and Willie Middlebust people said "he's coming off back-to-back SB wins & must be doing something right."

    Now that he's doing much better at drafting is really no time to criticize him.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalorado1 View Post
    hey dude just take a look at those 2002, 2003 drafts. WOW!
    Those were Shanny's "glory years" man, i swear i think he was picking
    out of a hat with a blind fold on.
    Spare us the every team has busts BS.
    He sucks, bad.
    Well how about last, year... and this years. Last year we ended up with Cutler, Dumerville, Marshall and Mike Bell..... Not bad eh?

    This year Shanahan set up a future Dline Dynasty and a steal in Marcus Thomas. Watch, three years down the line these past two years draft is really going to be apparent.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zealander View Post
    Well how about last, year... and this years. Last year we ended up with Cutler, Dumerville, Marshall and Mike Bell..... Not bad eh?

    This year Shanahan set up a future Dline Dynasty and a steal in Marcus Thomas. Watch, three years down the line these past two years draft is really going to be apparent.
    Jeez, 1st ask anyone here who is involved in any of the draft discussions.
    I said Thomas would be the steal of the draft.
    Now lets hope he lives up to the hype!
    As for Cutler, dude Oprah could have made that pick! It was a no brainer!
    Shenanigans even STILL needed to call his ol buddy in knoxville and do his home work in secret. Which is great! It shows that he cared enough to get the right personel for the job! And like i said , yes, his last couple of drafts have gone much better, but the reason that this thread is still going id not so much that shanny sucks at drafting, but that because of it, the Broncos are in the current mess they are in.
    1 poor drafting(exception last couple of drafts. Good job shanny!)
    2 alienating specific players. DTs/DEs this has led to a complete breakdown at the positions. Bad real bad!
    3 Not enough "character guys" to much trading and your left with a couple broken veterans and a stand out, but pissed off, CB.
    Hey lets look at what he does well!!!
    NO coach is as good at making trades and aquiring draft picks(which he wastes HAHA!) than Shenanigans! No one can make some of the trades he makes. Daniel Schneider is shannys lap dog for crying out loud!!!
    But, as it stands the current mess still falls directly on Shenaingans shoulders, and for that, he deserves some fire for it!

  7. #37
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    Wasted Broncos Draft Picks

    as long as shanahan and sundquist (the laurel and hardy of the nfl) are in control the broncos are going to have thse kind of drafts,bowlen does not give a crap about the direction of the franchise, so these two "geniuses" will run the team into the ground.

  8. #38
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    The thing about Shanny I love is his ability to get value back from bad draft picks. For example, Lelie was taken in the 1st round one pick ahead of JW. Obviously the better pick would have been JW. Lelie and Walker both had similar 1st three years in the NFL. Shanny then uses a 2nd round pick to get Walker and gets a third round pick back for Lelie.

    Even though he made a bad 1st round pick, the net effect was very minimal.

    Again he uses Portis, and Foster (a 1st and 2nd) to land Champ and Bly. With those two moves I could care less about Willie Middlebrooks (who landed us Engelberger BTW).

    The biggest knock on Shanny was that he couldn't draft WRs or CBs, yet we have what could be 2 probowl caliber Corners and WRs.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
    I've never been to the Orange Mane forums before - are there less idiots there? Threads like this one make me cry at their complete ignorance.
    Is this the smack forum

    Everything I posted is legit and my opinion

    Move along to the Mane if my threads are that "ignorant"

  10. #40
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    Since you are so critical of Denver drafts, I would like to know what criteria are you using in your argument that lets you distinguish a bust? While any person will admit certain players were definate busts. A standard for which you are comparing must be in your mind. If you are saying that every 1st thru 3rd round pick MUST be a superstar, then you are an mistaken. Off the top of my head, the Patriots come to mind for the best drafting team. Who are their recent first round picks? Well, their last 4 picks not counting this year are Graham, Ty Warren, Ben Watson, Mankins.... not really superstars... but starters . Of course though, back to your criteria of what makes a bust.... can you answer that? Of course being the "all knowing great draft guru" that will critique everything.... who are the busts from this year?
    Lets comare:

    Patriots since 98
    1 18 Robert Edwards RB Georgia
    1 22 Tebucky Jones SS Syracuse
    2 52 Tony Simmons WR Wisconsin
    2 54 Rod Rutledge TE Alabama
    3 81 Chris Floyd FB Michigan
    3 83 Greg Spires DE Florida State
    4 115 Leonta Rheams DT Houston
    5 145 Ron Merkerson LB Colorado
    6 176 Harold Shaw FB Southern Mississippi
    7 211 Jason Andersen C Brigham Young

    1999
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 17 Damien Woody G Boston College
    1 28 Andy Katzenmoyer MLB Ohio State
    2 46 Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State
    3 91 Tony George SS Florida
    5 154 Derrick Fletcher G Baylor
    6 180 Marcus Washington S Colorado State
    7 227 Michael Bishop QB Kansas State
    7 241 Sean Morey WR Brown

    2000
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    2 46 Adrian Klemm T Hawaii
    3 76 J.R. Redmond FB Arizona State
    4 127 Greg Randall T Michigan State
    5 141 Dave Stachelski TE Boise State
    5 161 Jeff Marriott G Missouri
    6 187 Antwan Harris DB Virginia
    6 199 Tom Brady QB Michigan
    6 201 David Nugent DE Purdue
    7 226 Casey Tisdale DE New Mexico
    7 239 Patrick Pass FB Georgia

    2001
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 6 Richard Seymour DE Georgia
    2 48 Matt Light T Purdue
    3 86 Brock Williams CB Notre Dame
    4 96 Kenyatta Jones T South Florida
    4 119 Jabari Holloway TE Notre Dame
    5 163 Hakim Akbar OLB Washington
    6 180 Arther Love TE South Carolina State
    6 200 Leonard Myers CB Miami
    7 216 Owen Pochman K Brigham Young
    7 239 T.J. Turner OLB Michigan State

    2002
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado
    2 65 Deion Branch WR Louisville
    4 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State
    4 126 Jarvis Green DE Louisiana State
    7 237 Antwoine Womack RB Virginia
    7 253 David Givens WR Notre Dame

    2003
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 13 Ty Warren DE Texas A&M
    2 36 Eugene Wilson FS Illinois
    2 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M
    4 117 Dan Klecko DT Temple
    4 120 Asante Samuel CB Central Florida
    5 164 Dan Koppen C Boston College
    6 201 Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech
    7 234 Spencer Nead FB Brigham Young
    7 239 Tully Banta-Cain OLB California
    7 243 Ethan Kelley NT Baylor

    2004
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami
    1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
    2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
    3 95 Guss Scott SS Florida
    4 113 Dexter Reid SS North Carolina
    4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
    5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
    7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

    2005
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
    3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
    3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
    4 133 James Sanders FS Fresno State
    5 170 Ryan Claridge OLB Nevada-Las Vegas
    7 230 Matt Cassel QB Southern California
    7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

    2006
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
    2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
    3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
    4 106 Garrett Mills TE Tulsa
    4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
    5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
    6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
    6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
    6 206 Le Kevin Smith NT Nebraska
    7 229 Willie Andrews FS Baylor

    Denver since 98
    1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
    2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
    3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
    4 122 Curtis Alexander RB Alabama
    5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
    7 200 Trey Teague C Tennessee
    7 219 Nate Wayne OLB Mississippi

    1999
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
    2 58 Montae Reagor DT Texas Tech
    2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
    3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
    3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
    4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia
    5 158 David Bowens DE Western Illinois
    5 167 Darwin Brown CB Texas Tech
    6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
    6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
    7 218 Billy Miller TE Southern California
    7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

    2000
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
    2 40 Ian Gold OLB Michigan
    2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SS Arkansas
    3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
    4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
    4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
    5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
    6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
    7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
    7 246 Leroy Fields WR Jackson State

    2001
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
    2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
    3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
    4 113 Ben Hamilton G Minnesota
    4 120 Nick Harris P California
    6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

    2002
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
    2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami
    3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
    4 131 Sam Brandon FS Nevada-Las Vegas
    5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
    6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
    7 228 Chris Young SS Georgia Tech
    7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

    2003
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 20 George Foster T Georgia
    2 51 Terry Pierce OLB Kansas State
    4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
    4 114 Nick Eason DE Clemson
    4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
    5 157 Ben Claxton G Mississippi
    5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
    6 194 Aaron Hunt DE Texas Tech
    7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
    7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

    2004
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami
    2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
    2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
    3 85 Jeremy LeSueur DB Michigan
    5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
    6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
    6 190 Josh Sewell C Nebraska
    7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
    7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
    7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

    2005
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
    3 76 Karl Paymah CB Washington State
    3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
    3 101 Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State
    6 200 Chris Myers C Miami
    7 239 Paul Ernster P Northern Arizona

    2006
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
    2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan
    4 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida
    4 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville
    4 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron
    5 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota
    6 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

    Now going by my criteria that a starter/strong contributor is not a bust: Denver has picked 75 picks.... 28 not busts for 37 percent. Sounds bad.... however New England has 78 picks 27 non bust for 34 percent. Sounds better now doesn't it. I chose New England because the common belief is that they are so great at drafting. I will admit, my numbers could be a little off with my judgement being that I don't watch all Pats games and read all the news I can.... but it should be pretty darn close. My point is do your research before you try to be critical about something. That goes for everyone that loves to declare Shanahan does not know how to draft!
    We need nasty

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlue Factory View Post
    Ummm... You do realize Graham is used primarily as a blocking TE? Thus we won't see him get the ball much. Maybe the reason Henry is #2 in the league has something to do with Graham?
    If our offensive line provided Graham with more help blocking he would have more catches this season.It shows we have a weak offensive line if Graham has to block majority of the time IMO

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalorado1 View Post
    Ah no. shenanigans drafts crappy consistantly. Just look at his crappy results!
    They speak for themselves!
    Then, homers use the excuse that ALL teams have draft busts and that its just part of the drafting process. Yes this is true.
    But what is NOT true, is the amount of busts that a team has. Just look at the results. They are some of the worse ever!
    Thats why shenanigans has to be so active in FA, cause he didnt take the draft seriously yet again.
    Didnt do his homework and some, like to give him a pass for this, just like everything else.
    Don't forget the Broncos consistently draft from the latter half of each round. Being as their are only ten or so "stars" that emerge from each draft, chances are you aren't gunna get one sitting at #21... And the "We shoulda traded up in the top ten" each year thing is getting annoying. The teams in the top ten want to pick in the top ten, why? So they can have a chance at getting one of those ten good players.

    In years past, we have been sitting at our latter half spots and taking gambles on players that could be great. However more often than not they have been busts, so Shanahan has resorted to trading up as high as he can lately to grab that one or two players who he things were top ten talent. (Cutler / Moss) ect...

    Just because the Broncos haven't been the best team in drafting doesn't make a case for firing Shanahan. If that were so, there would be 31 new head coaches in the NFL each year. Maybe his drafting skills have been in the latter half? So what, He is still a great head coach, and his last three years of drafting have many fans thinking he is building a nice core group of players for the future. Cutler, Young, Bell, Scheffler, Marshall, Dumerville, Moss, Crowder... That's not too bad really. There are other contributors that I could add to that list also.

    Maybe you should try to be less pessimistic and look at the bright side. ok?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickdaDookie View Post
    I've never been to the Orange Mane forums before - are there less idiots there?
    More idiots there. Don't bother visiting.

  14. #44
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    For all the shizz talkers....

    I am always optimistic about the Broncos and I am beginning to see that my optimism has jack shnit to do with whether the Broncos are a good team or not....

    How about for once, all of the holier than thou posters out there....try taking your orange tinted glasses off and realize that this years version of the Broncos pretty much SUCKS!!!! We could very easliy be 0-5

    I for one get sick of trying to bring some realism to the boards and all of the "The Broncos can do no wrong posters" come and jump all down my throat!!!!

    It aint just me who believes that the Broncos have screwed the pooch with all of the wasted draft picks....I have heard talk shows from media members outside of the Denver area that aren't biased dogging on the Denver Broncos and the Maurice Clarett type picks Shanny pulls out of his a$$!!!!

    Here's to fighting with the lowly Chiefs and Raiders for the right to look up at the rest of the division come seasons end

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    I've been a severe critic of Shanahan's drafting in in the past. It was pretty much horrible from 1999 (WR Marcus Nash) past 2002 (Ashlie Lelie) to 2003 (George Foster, Terry Pierce).

    But, after that starting in 2004 and continuing, his drafting has improved remarkably. This years' draft was very probably the best ever of his career.

    First of all, you can't take much credit or assign much blame for 2nd day (4th or later round) picks. If they hit, that's often luck (if you throw enough darts at the board some are going to stick). Does Shanahan deserve credit for picking Terrell Davis in the 6th round? NO! If anybody had any idea how good he was, he wouldn't have lasted past the first pick!

    If they fail, well that's why they were 4th or later round picks in the first place. They weren't expected to succeed. A GM is really rated by his first day picks alone. So, forget about those 6th rounders you never heard of, they don't count.

    So, starting in 2004.

    2004: Mixed bag. D.J. Williams and Tatum Bell. D.J. is starting and Tatum was traded for another pick. So hit, bust. Darius Watts and Jeremy LeSueur were busts. 1 out of 4 isn't great, but you really have to double-weight those 1st round picks because they cost much much more (i.e. 1st round bust is NOT overcome by 2nd round success, but 1st round success DOES mitigate 2nd and 3rd round failure). So, overall, mediocre draft.

    2005: This starts the really good drafts. Darrent Williams, Dominque Foxworth both became starters. Darrent would be starting now but for his death and Foxworth is the nickel back and a valuable one. Maurice Clarett was a supplemental 3rd round pick, not much of a loss there. Getting 2 immediate starters in the 2nd & 3rd rounds is pretty solid drafting (Foxworth played a lot his rookie year due to injuries to Champ and Williams).

    2006: Excellent pre-draft moves to move up to #15 and then draft day trade which Shanahan deftly pulled off, keeping all the other teams from knowing what he was about until the Rams were on the clock and then completing the pick and getting his franchise QB of the future.

    Then trading the 1st of his 2nd round picks for Javon Walker. Great trade.

    2nd Round - Tony Sheffler. Jury's still out on him, but he's an exciting pass-receiver and a favorite target for Cutler, so he could be very good indeed. Slowed by injury this year so far.

    Brandon Marshall -- already paying dividends as #2 WR.

    Elvis Dumervil - Outrageously great 4th round pick, the best Bronco pass-rusher right now he's only going to get better.

    2007: This draft may prove the best one ever for Shanahan. Moss, Crowder, Tim Ryan won't see much action on the O-line, but O-linemen take 2 years or more to learn Denver's system, Marcus Thomas may be the steal of the draft. He was projected to be a top 15 pick before being kicked off Florida for smoking dope and bailing out of his rehab program. He's an exception to the rule about 2nd day draft picks don't count. He was really a 1st round pick who only slid because of character concerns.

    He's kept straight so far and looks like a gamble that paid off.

    Moss and Crowder have looked good for rookies in limited action so far and have tremendous potential. Both should be starting by next season unless Dumervil continues to keep Moss off the field by his great play (which is possible, but hardly a problem). Thomas has been mediocre, but he's been in for more snaps than the others because of the crying need at DT. That will only help his development for next season.

    So, to sum up, Shanahan's last 4 drafts have gone from poor to superb and you can see the improvement year by year.

    NO WAY can ANYONE criticize Shanahan for draft day failure these days.

    At most you can argue that the current DL problems stem from his failure to draft good DTs in the past, but the players he did get the last 3 years have been pretty good. Reggie Hayward and Bert Berry might have been kept, but both were DEs and that's not the Broncos problem this year.

    Shanahan's one draft failure was the failure to use a high round draft pick between 2000 and 2004 on a DT (other than Paul Toviesi, who had a degenerative knee condition and never played for the Broncos). If he had done that and had succeeded, the run defense wouldn't suck so bad this year. But, that failure was a long time ago and doesn't reflect his current drafting, which is now excellent.
    Yeah, I agree although, Id say 2006 was the better draft. The manuvering that went on in order to move up to get Cutler was some of the shrewdest draft day handiwork Ive ever seen.

    Does anyone know why our drafts suddenly went from craptacular **** fests to being good? 2003 was possibly the worst draft by any team ever. And yes, I think the past is why were hurting in a variety of ways now.

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