View Poll Results: Do You Think Comparisons Between Cowher and Shanahan's Positions Are Valid?

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1. Yes. Cowher went through some rough seasons & Shanahan will bring another Championship to Denver

    32 60.38%
  • NO. Just because the Steelers won the SB after several disappointments, doesn't mean Shanahan will!

    10 18.87%
  • 3. I don't know. I'd be happy to go 8-8 right now.

    12 22.64%
  • 4. If things don't radically improve by next year, I'm going to start calling for Shanahan's head!

    4 7.55%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 73
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    5,758

    Interesting Comparison Between Pittsburgh's Bill Cowher and Mike Shanahan!

    It's ironic that the same criticism that is being hurled at Shanahan was given to Bill Cowher prior to his SB winning season. Now Cowher is considered one of the great coaches in NFL history. But not too long ago they said he was losing his touch, that he'd been coach too long, that the Steelers should find somebody else with a "fresh approach" etc.

    Cowher had a HORRIBLE Steelers team 2 seasons before he won the SB! In 2001 they went 13-3 and went to the AFC Championship before losing to the Patriots.

    Then in 2002 they fell to 10-5-1, and lost the wild-card game to the Cleveland Browns in overtime. There was much fan criticism and media speculation that Cowher's time in Pittsburgh was nearing it's end. They said the team was going backwards, etc.

    In 2003, to make things worse, the Steelers team collapsed to 6-10. Fans were disillusioned, the media was constantly speculating about whether Cowher's job was in jeopardy if they didn't get back to their winning ways.

    In 2004 they drafted Ben Roethlisberger to replace the inconsistent Tommy Maddox, and rebounded to go 15-1, eventually losing in the AFC Championship game (again!) to the Patriots.

    Then in 2005 they won the SB after going 11-5 and needing to win their last 4 games just to get the last wild-card.

    Shanahan is in a similar situation now. After going 13-3 in 2005 and getting to the AFC Championship game, the 2006 season was a disappointment. It was clear, by mid-season that Jake Plummer was never going to be able to do the job. The offense was stalled, the defense was wearing down, etc.

    So, Shanahan changed QBs to the young rookie Cutler halfway through the 2006 season. The Broncos finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Fans speculation during the off-season that the team will make a SB run in 2007.

    Now it's looking like the team is going to have a losing season again and fans are going on the war-path for Shanahan's head.

    But, in the long-term, having a franchise QB proved critical to the Steelers success as they went went 26-7 in the two seasons after drafting Ben Roethlisberger and this Bronco team has almost all the key ingredients they need to be an elite team in the NFL.

    I'm as frustrated as the rest of you. It's deppressing to watch the team getting blown out at home week after week. But, this is a team with a lot of young talent at a lot of positions.

    You don't stick around in the NFL by being a bad coach. Shanahan has had success with the Broncos and by any measure, starting with winning percentage, he's an elite coach.

    Whatever happens the rest of the year, they have the foundations in place for making a SB run next season and having the players who will be a firm foundation for long term success in the future.

    Just as the Steelers stuck with Bill Cowher when the fans and media pooh-bahs were calling for his head, Bowlen will stick with Shanahan for next season, no matter what happens this year.

    It will be interesting to see how quickly people will jump back to thinking Shanahan's a genius if he manages to turn things around so that the Broncos become an elite team by next season!
    http://www.fbpages.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/159174168050152087_zRr4orMC_c.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    133
    Thanks Cugel!

    Can anyone here name ANOTHER team who changed the vast majority of thier coaching staff and players, and went to the SB (or close) within the first two years? If you can, how about more than one? How many in NFL history?





    Yeah...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Check out "Broncos song" on youtube. Unless you are a judge in the Broncos Country Talent Search.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by nashmanzl View Post
    Thanks Cugel!

    Can anyone here name ANOTHER team who changed the vast majority of thier coaching staff and players, and went to the SB (or close) within the first two years? If you can, how about more than one? How many in NFL history?





    Yeah...
    Gruden in Tampa comes to mind, and Callahan in Oakland the same year(I can't remember the year, '01 or '02 I think). But I guess that may have just been the head coaches, not the entire staff. And both those teams degenerated pretty quickly the following year... but yeah, I get your point.
    [I]Its very easy to take snaps: Just open your hands and wait for the ball, and then you close your hands.'[/I]

    Chicago area fifth-grader Jimmy Smolik, age 10, providing some advice to Rex Grossman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    9,738
    Outstanding post, Cugel.....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,304
    Interesting comparison. Cowher's Championship Steelers team had a lot more talent on defense than our current Broncos, but I see what you're getting at. And I really don't think Shanahan is the problem here. He's still a great football coach. I really think both of our coordinators should be on the hotseat right now, but I still have faith in Shanny. I mean, already this season he's created a new tactic that won us a game and has been imitated by several other coaches (the last-second field goal timeout!). I'm very unimpressed with our current offensive coordinator, and I think (hope?) we just need to give Bates a little more time to make the defense work. I would like to see Shanahan stop being GM and just be head coach again (I think coaches are never as effective when they're in the front office too), but I don't see how you can really blame this season's woes on him.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    L.A., CA
    Posts
    7

    Another View

    I wrote this a while ago in another thread. It's a numerical look at the same thing. Keep in mind that Shanny has a few less seasons.

    Number of wins annually (sorted from most wins in a season to least wins):
    Pitt Den
    15 14
    13 13
    12 13
    11 12
    11 --
    11 --
    11 11
    10 10
    10 10
    9 9
    9 9
    8 8
    7 8
    6 6
    6 --

    As you can see, They match-up fairly nicely. Shanny has 2 less losing season, and 2 less winning seasons. But he has been a bit stronger in terms of records.

    AND keep in mind, going to the playoffs depends on your division as much. Pittsburges division has been putrid for 10 out of the 15 years Cowher was there.
    Last edited by amirebram; 10-17-2007 at 12:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    38
    we need different players more then a diff coach although Mike has made some of the stupidest calls i hace ever seen i still hope he can turn it around.
    [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3231/guestmremeatx17xev1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


    [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"][B]Denver[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkOrange"][B]Broncos[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [B][SIZE="3"]5-5[/SIZE][/B]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,226
    I never did like Bill Cowher or the teams that he coached.

    I do however as a football fan have to respect what he has done as a Head Coach.Taking a rookie QB and going 15-1 and winning the SB with a 2nd year QB is amazing work.He deserves all the credit in the world for that.

    I see no reason into talking trash about either of these head coaches.What happens is in trying to display your football knowledge by bashing them.You end up looking like a buffoon and not an expert.

    Will Pat Bowlen and the fans give Mike Shanahan the time he deserves.I would hope so but only time will tell.
    Last edited by LarryDean; 10-17-2007 at 06:23 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,583
    The biggest, most significant difference between Shanahan and Cowher (besides their styles of coaching) is that Cowher had someone else bringing in the talent.

    The biggest problem Mike Shanahan's critics have with him hasn't necessarily been his coaching on the field, but rather, his personnel decisions and drafts.

    Also, Cowher has won and contended with some fairly mediocre and inexperienced quarterbacks.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    1,518
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Also, Cowher has won and contended with some fairly mediocre and inexperienced quarterbacks.
    And Shanahan is different, how?

    Griese was experienced and better than mediocre? Then why is he playing for his 4th team now and just getting back to starting. I'd argue he'd still be a back up if Wrex wasn't such a horrible QB. Still, we went to to the playoffs and had only 1 losing season with Grieseball.

    Plummer. Experienced but far from a franchise QB. I'd put Plummer at mediocre or average at best. The major reason Plummer did so well in Denver is that Shanahan changed the playbook so drastically to prevent Plummer from making mistakes. All in all, better than Griese but still not good enough to win a championship.

    Throughout these two QBs in Denver we had only 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Given two average QBs (one of which was in experienced) Shanahan has done very well keeping us competitive. If we had been in a different division (ie AFC North) I bet Shanahan would have gone deeper into more playoffs than we have.
    Current morale factor (on a scale of 1-10): -1000 and dropping like a lead balloon.

    Reason: Thanks a lot Bowlen, McDaniels and Cutler!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,583
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlue Factory View Post
    And Shanahan is different, how?

    Griese was experienced and better than mediocre? Then why is he playing for his 4th team now and just getting back to starting. I'd argue he'd still be a back up if Wrex wasn't such a horrible QB. Still, we went to to the playoffs and had only 1 losing season with Grieseball.

    Plummer. Experienced but far from a franchise QB. I'd put Plummer at mediocre or average at best. The major reason Plummer did so well in Denver is that Shanahan changed the playbook so drastically to prevent Plummer from making mistakes. All in all, better than Griese but still not good enough to win a championship.

    Throughout these two QBs in Denver we had only 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Given two average QBs (one of which was in experienced) Shanahan has done very well keeping us competitive. If we had been in a different division (ie AFC North) I bet Shanahan would have gone deeper into more playoffs than we have.
    I don't think any of the QBs Cowher has had to endure compares to Shanahan's QBs since Elway retired.

    I don't think Plummer was an average or mediocre QB. The stats while he was in Denver don't support that, either, short of his last season (which I think is unfair to count against him given the circumstances).

    As far as Griese...well, he was better than O'Donnell, Stewart, and Maddox, in my opinion. But that's a totally subjective opinion.

    But again, the biggest difference between Cowher and Shanahan is that Cowher had no control over who was brought in and who was let go, short of voicing an opinion. Shanahan is in charge of all that.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    502
    I will never forget how his family supported him. Cower is a true American and a great dad. What else could you ask for?
    The NFL being played overseas is a terrible idea.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,583
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglebronco View Post
    I will never forget how his family supported him. Cower is a true American and a great dad. What else could you ask for?
    Well, and with all due respect to Shanahan, I do believe Cowher is a better overall coach than he is. The difference is very small, but Cowher did more with far less than Shanahan has, in my opinion.

    That said, I still believe that the problem with Shanahan is his dual role of both HC and GM. As far as a coach...Shanahan doesn't have many weaknesses. But when you combine both his positions, his flaws are obvious.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    18,970
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGlue Factory View Post
    And Shanahan is different, how?

    Griese was experienced and better than mediocre? Then why is he playing for his 4th team now and just getting back to starting. I'd argue he'd still be a back up if Wrex wasn't such a horrible QB. Still, we went to to the playoffs and had only 1 losing season with Grieseball.

    Plummer. Experienced but far from a franchise QB. I'd put Plummer at mediocre or average at best. The major reason Plummer did so well in Denver is that Shanahan changed the playbook so drastically to prevent Plummer from making mistakes. All in all, better than Griese but still not good enough to win a championship.

    Throughout these two QBs in Denver we had only 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Given two average QBs (one of which was in experienced) Shanahan has done very well keeping us competitive. If we had been in a different division (ie AFC North) I bet Shanahan would have gone deeper into more playoffs than we have.
    Yeah... I was going to point this out as well. People want to say that Plummer was somehow 'better' than the QBs Cowher coached, but he sure wasn't BEFORE he came to Denver.

    Some wish to either forget, or ignore, that Shanahan JUST TOOK the Broncos (led by Plummer) to the AFC Champion game in 2005.. not exactly a LONG time ago.

    Also, as you mentioned about success.... I've pointed out that Shanahan has more wins and more playoff appearances than anyone else in History after losing a franchise QB (and having to deal with those in between QBs) other than Tom Landry (who went from Staubach to Danny White). So its VERY hard to say that Shanahan hasn't done well with mediocre QBs.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Yeah... I was going to point this out as well. People want to say that Plummer was somehow 'better' than the QBs Cowher coached, but he sure wasn't BEFORE he came to Denver.

    Some wish to either forget, or ignore, that Shanahan JUST TOOK the Broncos (led by Plummer) to the AFC Champion game in 2005.. not exactly a LONG time ago.

    Also, as you mentioned about success.... I've pointed out that Shanahan has more wins and more playoff appearances than anyone else in History after losing a franchise QB (and having to deal with those in between QBs) other than Tom Landry (who went from Staubach to Danny White). So its VERY hard to say that Shanahan hasn't done well with mediocre QBs.
    Well again, it depends on what you consider 'medicore'.

    Griese was fairly plain and uninspiring, but statistically, he was better than the QBs Cowher had.

    Plummer, in my opinion, was better than many of us gave/give him credit for. I can post his numbers for you if you'd like. Was he Elway or Montana? Hardly. But I do believe he's as good or better than all the QBs Cowher had.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •