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  1. #16
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    Mug

    MUG, I think you have hit in Chris Williams as the Broncos top Draft pick, and I suggested something similar a while back, only to have Dream post that Williams was not a player worthy of being selected #12, no way, no how....now we legitimately have to worry of Williams will be there at all...what if Jake Long goes in the Top 2, and Clady goes to KC at #5...if Matt Ryan is gone, Chris Williams could get selected by Baltimore now that Odgen is done...in which case, I would immediately take Florida DE Derrick Harvey...

    So here is my take for Day One:

    1.) OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt or DE Derrick Harvey of Florida.

    2.) WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt...I just think the chemistry with Cutler is too good to ignore, and we need another wideout of Bennett's style, and he fits in about that area of the Draft...smart, poised, exceptional route runner, etc....and NOT a Head Case.

    3.) (Trade Up)...I still think the Broncos will trade up and take RB Kevin Smith of Central Florida in the third round; to me, he looks like a great fit for the Broncos.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GridironChamp View Post
    There is an entertainment section if you weant Oprah talk...





    MUG, you seem to be the DT expert in these parts, how do you break down Kentwan Balmer?

    I'm sketchy on him. He was a one-year wonder at North Carolina, that wasn't really that remarkable, and North Carolina is not known for developing NFL calibur DTs. He wasn't able to do the Senior Bowl, and he had to miss the Combine.

    He's a Quasi-Nose from what I can gather, with solid upper body strength. But I need to get some numbers from his Pro Day to get an idea of what he can do.

    My gut feeling at the moment is that he's a mid-2nd Round selection at best, and nothing really special. I think he can be an average starter or a quality reserve. But I'll have a much better grasp on him after his Pro Day which should be soon. If he shows superb quickness and athleticism, then that obviously raises his stock. As it stands, I would not draft him before the Mid-2nd. I think Trevor Laws and Dre Moore are absolutely better. He's about on par with Red Bryant for the 5th best DT in my mind.

  3. #18
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    There is a lot of frankly... BS being spewed out about players this year because of their inconsistencies which is causing people to make **** up about a lot of them.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    Let me ask you someting...who would have turned out better last season?

    Chris Brown or Travis Henry?

    Chris Brown, obviously....but I did not tout Chris Brown as a major signing, but simply as a fill-in on a one yr deal, and certainly not an advocate of a major investment such as you are with your beloved beanpole wideout...so, despite your feable attempt to take my post out of context, you still fail.
    Putting words in my mouth?

    I absolutely do not want Desean Jackson
    I would hate him being picked by us
    I also never said Henry was good

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    I'm sketchy on him. He was a one-year wonder at North Carolina, that wasn't really that remarkable, and North Carolina is not known for developing NFL calibur DTs. He wasn't able to do the Senior Bowl, and he had to miss the Combine.

    He's a Quasi-Nose from what I can gather, with solid upper body strength. But I need to get some numbers from his Pro Day to get an idea of what he can do.

    My gut feeling at the moment is that he's a mid-2nd Round selection at best, and nothing really special. I think he can be an average starter or a quality reserve. But I'll have a much better grasp on him after his Pro Day which should be soon. If he shows superb quickness and athleticism, then that obviously raises his stock. As it stands, I would not draft him before the Mid-2nd. I think Trevor Laws and Dre Moore are absolutely better. He's about on par with Red Bryant for the 5th best DT in my mind.
    Well I think he ran a 4.98 or somewhere around that at the combine. I think he can be a pretty good 3-4 DE. As a DT he would have to be a UT and have a massive NT to have great success. You don't want him to be your best D-linemen or premier DT.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    MUG, I think you have hit in Chris Williams as the Broncos top Draft pick, and I suggested something similar a while back, only to have Dream post that Williams was not a player worthy of being selected #12, no way, no how....now we legitimately have to worry of Williams will be there at all...what if Jake Long goes in the Top 2, and Clady goes to KC at #5...if Matt Ryan is gone, Chris Williams could get selected by Baltimore now that Odgen is done...in which case, I would immediately take Florida DE Derrick Harvey...

    So here is my take for Day One:

    1.) OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt or DE Derrick Harvey of Florida.

    2.) WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt...I just think the chemistry with Cutler is too good to ignore, and we need another wideout of Bennett's style, and he fits in about that area of the Draft...smart, poised, exceptional route runner, etc....and NOT a Head Case.

    3.) (Trade Up)...I still think the Broncos will trade up and take RB Kevin Smith of Central Florida in the third round; to me, he looks like a great fit for the Broncos.

    I don't really agree with most of it, but it does make sense. I do think you could be on to something with Derrick Harvey, but I still feel that we don't have the luxury of taking a 270lb DE. What is a shame is that we didn't take Joe Staley or Reggie Nelson last year. Then we could have taken Derrick Harvey this year, whom is considered by all to be far superior to Jarvis Moss.


    Now, if Chris Williams or Ryan Clady are gone, which is very possible, I think a WR becomes an option. Specifically, James Hardy. I think Malcolm Kelly is in the picture if he has a great Private Workout. And of course, DeSean is an option, and with Jerry Rice being his personal trainer and advocate, there is a small connection to Shanahan. But trading back for Trevor Laws or Sam Baker would be ideal.


    In the 2nd, I'm just totally against Earl Bennett. Not because he's not an exceptional talent, but because he's a one dimensional slot WR. He does not project outside in the NFL, as he is below 6'0", he does not run a 4.3 or close, and he has a terrible vertical, 27-32" depending on what Pro Day report you believe. But the kicker is that he doesn't do special teams. Talented, one dimensional slot WRs tend to go in the 3rd or 4th Round, in which I'm fine drafting Bennett to replace Stokley in a few years. But not in the 2nd. If I'm going slot in the 2nd, I'll take Eddie Royal, whom has all the skills Bennett has in the passing game, probably not as good of hands though, but close, and he also has elite Return ability. If I'm going slot in the first two rounds, they'd better be able to do more then just catch.

    Royal reminds me of Wes Welker. Bennett reminds be of Stokley. I'd never draft Stokley over Welker.



    I do agree with you that a RB would be nice, but I don't know how long Kevin Smith will be available. He had a flawless Pro Day, to top off his stunning Combine. At his Pro Day he ran TWO 40s in the 4.45-4.48 range, solidifying top end speed. He also looked superb catching the ball, which was not expected as UCF doesn't do a lot of that. He's probably battling Matt Forte to be picked in the Late 2nd. The only issue is he's had some wear and tear in college.

    But I'm still impressed with Andre Hall as our 3rd RB. Whenever he played, he played very well. We couldn't get him on the field enough. Henry was excellent when healthy. And I think we definitely will add a RB to the stable, but not until late in the draft. I do agree Kevin Smith would be a nice pick, I'm just not convinced we'd spend a 2nd Rounder on him with our current set of needs.



    I still believe we must go DT in the 2nd. They dry out quick after the 2nd Round. And I think OT has to be a pick in the Top 3 rounds. If we miss on Clady or Williams in the first, I think WR has great value and is a great need. We stay with DT in the 2nd regardless, the WR value should be low by then anyway, maybe a Doucet or Caldwell are around. Early 2nd is too soon for Royal, but not by much. So, if we miss on OT in the first, I think we HAVE to trade up into the 3rd, with our 4ths, to nab one of Kirk Barton, Tony Hills, or Duane Brown. I like all of those guys and don't think they are too risky.

    Infact, if I knew for a "fact" we could get Barton or Brown in the 3rd by trading up, I'd go with James Hardy or Malcolm Kelly in the 1st, and forego Chris Williams. And I'd try and nab Dre Moore or Red Bryant in the 2nd.

  7. #22
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    MUG what do you think of LeTroy Guion?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    MUG, I think you have hit in Chris Williams as the Broncos top Draft pick, and I suggested something similar a while back, only to have Dream post that Williams was not a player worthy of being selected #12, no way, no how....now we legitimately have to worry of Williams will be there at all...what if Jake Long goes in the Top 2, and Clady goes to KC at #5...if Matt Ryan is gone, Chris Williams could get selected by Baltimore now that Odgen is done...in which case, I would immediately take Florida DE Derrick Harvey...

    So here is my take for Day One:

    1.) OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt or DE Derrick Harvey of Florida.

    2.) WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt...I just think the chemistry with Cutler is too good to ignore, and we need another wideout of Bennett's style, and he fits in about that area of the Draft...smart, poised, exceptional route runner, etc....and NOT a Head Case.

    3.) (Trade Up)...I still think the Broncos will trade up and take RB Kevin Smith of Central Florida in the third round; to me, he looks like a great fit for the Broncos.
    1.) I could see C.Williams being high on our draft board I just dont think Harvey is in our sites. I'm a Gator fan too so Im biased towards him but I just cant see us drafting another DE after getting Crowder and Jarvis we dont even know what we have with them yet and you want us to burn more on DE's? Not to mention we just resigned Engelberger and Ekuban so you can pretty much scratch off DE from being our 1st round pick. Also not to forget about Dumervil

    I see our #1 pick being OT Best one left, WR best one on the Board, Or BPA which would most likely be a RB although I dont know if we should take one that early I still wouldnt complain though.

    But I hope we trade down if all the OT's are taken I dont want us to try and reach for the forth OT aka Otah

    2) I would love us getting Bennett although 42 seems a little high for him, but considering the chemistry he could be one of our targets in the 2nd round.

    So I would think we would go after Laws, Sims, or Balmer if they were there

    I would not mind us taking Lofton although that is doubtful since we signed two LB's

    3) I love K.Smith also but I don't know if the Bronco's would trade up to snag a Rb in a deep class. But I would love it if they did and got him

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Well I think he ran a 4.98 or somewhere around that at the combine. I think he can be a pretty good 3-4 DE. As a DT he would have to be a UT and have a massive NT to have great success. You don't want him to be your best D-linemen or premier DT.
    He ran a 5.3 at the Combine, which is pretty crappy for a guy measuring at 6'4 and 308lbs. Aka, tall and relatively skinny. And then he became "hurt", aka, taking your ball and going home.

    I mean, Red Bryant, is 6'4, and 318, and HE ran a 4.98. Dre Moore is 6'4 and 305, and he ran a 4.88. And both had great athletic workouts. Bryant's problem is a massive puss for being so big. But he's a great penetrating 3-technique. Dre Moore is just a freak.

    As a 3-4 DE, I'm not sure he has the speed and burst needed. We need to find out. Dre Moore is probably the top 3-4 DE in this draft. I know the Steelers are looking at him in the Late 1st, but Branden Albert probably is more enticing. Trevor Laws is in the 3-4 discussion as well, but teams HATE having short 3-4 DEs. A key part of that scheme is clogging passing lanes with those DEs.


    I'm not prepared to throw Balmer under the bus yet, but I'm close. He's screaming out risky pick to me, and every year a top DT falls in the draft pretty drastically, he appears to be the main candidate this year. He's definitely, without a doubt, over-hyped by the experts. Though, to be fair, they've kind of tailed off on hyping him lately.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    MUG what do you think of LeTroy Guion?

    Long term project. He's very young, which is good. But he hasn't grown into his body yet. He's kind of fat and slow, but he's not that big. He has talent but needs to hit the gym. I think he could be effective in 2-3 years. I think he's a Nose Tackle.

    I'd consider him in the 4th Round if *my team* could afford to keep him on the roster and develop him as a 4-5th DT for a couple years. We can't. We need some help at DT immediately.

    Mike Mayock likes him. Mayock is usually right, but I can't see him going in the first 3 Rounds. Mayock thinks he will. But then, Mayock sucks at predicting draft selections, hes just Godly at predicting which players will be good.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    He ran a 5.3 at the Combine, which is pretty crappy for a guy measuring at 6'4 and 308lbs. Aka, tall and relatively skinny. And then he became "hurt", aka, taking your ball and going home.

    I mean, Red Bryant, is 6'4, and 318, and HE ran a 4.98. Dre Moore is 6'4 and 305, and he ran a 4.88. And both had great athletic workouts. Bryant's problem is a massive puss for being so big. But he's a great penetrating 3-technique. Dre Moore is just a freak.

    As a 3-4 DE, I'm not sure he has the speed and burst needed. We need to find out. Dre Moore is probably the top 3-4 DE in this draft. I know the Steelers are looking at him in the Late 1st, but Branden Albert probably is more enticing. Trevor Laws is in the 3-4 discussion as well, but teams HATE having short 3-4 DEs. A key part of that scheme is clogging passing lanes with those DEs.


    I'm not prepared to throw Balmer under the bus yet, but I'm close. He's screaming out risky pick to me, and every year a top DT falls in the draft pretty drastically, he appears to be the main candidate this year. He's definitely, without a doubt, over-hyped by the experts. Though, to be fair, they've kind of tailed off on hyping him lately.
    Yeah I must have seen Dre Moore's 40 time and thought it was Kentwan Balmer. If Balmer ran that poorly he must have had some type of injury. John Carlson was sick and ran terribly. Ali Highsmith claimed he was hurt. Mario Manningham had something wrong with him. I think he'll do a lot better at his pro day if he hasn't already had it.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Yeah I must have seen Dre Moore's 40 time and thought it was Kentwan Balmer. If Balmer ran that poorly he must have had some type of injury. John Carlson was sick and ran terribly. Ali Highsmith claimed he was hurt. Mario Manningham had something wrong with him. I think he'll do a lot better at his pro day if he hasn't already had it.
    Another Pro Day for Balmer wont be until April first. North Carolina had one March 4th but he didnt attend.

    Before the Combine his times consisted of 4.96, 5.12, and 5.24 so we will see what he does in April.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Yeah I must have seen Dre Moore's 40 time and thought it was Kentwan Balmer. If Balmer ran that poorly he must have had some type of injury. John Carlson was sick and ran terribly. Ali Highsmith claimed he was hurt. Mario Manningham had something wrong with him. I think he'll do a lot better at his pro day if he hasn't already had it.
    Manningham didnt know the proper form.. he just ran. Thats if you believe the report from ESPN. He learned all the tricks and got under 4.5 easily.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    MUG, I think you have hit in Chris Williams as the Broncos top Draft pick, and I suggested something similar a while back, only to have Dream post that Williams was not a player worthy of being selected #12, no way, no how....now we legitimately have to worry of Williams will be there at all...what if Jake Long goes in the Top 2, and Clady goes to KC at #5...if Matt Ryan is gone, Chris Williams could get selected by Baltimore now that Odgen is done...in which case, I would immediately take Florida DE Derrick Harvey...

    So here is my take for Day One:

    1.) OT Chris Williams, Vanderbilt or DE Derrick Harvey of Florida.

    2.) WR Earl Bennett, Vanderbilt...I just think the chemistry with Cutler is too good to ignore, and we need another wideout of Bennett's style, and he fits in about that area of the Draft...smart, poised, exceptional route runner, etc....and NOT a Head Case.

    3.) (Trade Up)...I still think the Broncos will trade up and take RB Kevin Smith of Central Florida in the third round; to me, he looks like a great fit for the Broncos.

    I am still iffy on Chris Williams. I am not questioning his skills because he looked good at the combine and had a good career in the SEC. To me both Chris Williams and Ryan Harris have the same size, body type and skill set. Essentially, I see Ryan Harris and Chris Williams as the same player.


    I don't think we will be drafting at #12. Shanny has not stayed put in the first round since 2003. I think Philly, Tampa and Pitt will be looking to #12 to grab Jeff Otah. If we can trade down and grab a third rounder and possibly another pick, Shanny will jump all over it. That being said, if we drop to #19, #20 or #23 we will look at WR's DeSean Jackson, Limas Sweed, or Devin Thomas and DT Trevor Laws. Chris Williams could even drop to #20 and you could grab him and get a bonus with the third rounder.
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  15. #30
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    Life's just been real busy for me. Two majors, searching for graduate schools, 30 hour a week job, working on my site, etc. just haven't had the time to stick up and post my thoughts as always around here.

    I've been backing players like DJ Hall, Jonathan Goff, Jeremy Zuttah, etc. as quality picks like I was with several players since the college football season started. Those were my top guys that weren't top three round picks at the beginning of the year, but have done a pretty good job.

    As a huge Florida State fan (MUG probably gets to see a lot of him as well in Florida) LeTroy Guion is a guy I enjoy watching play and a guy I think we need here. He'd be a nice 1-technique here; as MUG was alluding to as a nose but can get much bigger and does need to hit the weight room. He's not going to sack the quarterback, but he'll keep the anti-run game anchored and he'll free up the others around him; especially the linebackers. (Just take a look at how he helped Geno Hayes!)

    Probably a guy we can hit with our Raiders pick in the fifth round (#130) but could be picked a little earlier because he's very young as MUG alluded to and has some upside. Would be a nice wave player for us. He's more athletic than MUG probably gave him credit for; he didn't run well -- but he's pretty quick on the field. The worst thing about him is that he gets by with his athleticism, but has terrible technique. I mean, it's just HORRID. He's only 20 right now, will be 21 in June -- so he has all the time in the world to make up for his improvements -- but he's not a guy you take early on because he just needs improvement in so many crucial areas.
    Last edited by Dream; 03-22-2008 at 01:06 PM.

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