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  1. #1
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    If Broncos FAIL, FANS are to BLAME

    I contend that this generation of Broncos fans are some of the worst and fiercely negative fans.

    I sincerely miss the optimism that went along during the Elway-era. Even when Elway lost games, fans were always supportive and most importantly, hopeful.

    The distinction with the current fans is that we dogpile on a particular weakness our team presents and dissect it to the point that it becomes disruptive, counter-productive, and disgusting.

    The Broncos' success has a lot to do with the fans; if you truly want your team to succeed, learn to be 100% supportive.


    We've received an offense from Shanahan that is so much more than we could have hoped for during the offseason. Realistically, our collection of Marshall, Cutler, Sheffler, Graham, Clady, Harris, Stokely, Royal, Hamilton, Wiegmann, and Kuper would have not been possibly if Shanny didn't do a good job of collecting and managing that level of talent.

    Defensively, there is a clear understanding that we don't have the best talent around. From an optimistic standpoint, our defense is MUCH improved. I'll tell ya why:

    DBs: Champ Bailey is and will remain the best for a very long time. The fact that he's invisible on the field to fans is that he shuts off half the field and the camera is zoomed in on the other side.

    Dre Bly's is playing his role as intended, a risky playmaker that covers just enough to funnel the passes down the middle to the linebackers/safeties.
    I don't know how fans have the expectation that Bly HAS to do as well as Baliey does. If Hall/Aso/Cromartie were any indication, it's not realistically possible to get someone of equal talent as Champ.

    LBs: We've collected, once again, a speedy set of Lbs to keep up with the pass happy offenses around the league today. They're also quick enough to plug the holes and stop the run. With the LBs as light as they are, it necessitates that Lbs get to their position and the rest of the defense plays as a unit and swarms to the ball.

    Dline: Robertson has a lot to do with our much improved run defense(Watch the games). But the line is also our weakest link. The better teams can pressure with just 4 guys, we can't do that.

    Why our defense is bending so much but will improve:

    We don't have the talent to pressure the Qb with our line; but we're stacked with talent at Lbs and Dbs. And CLEARLY, our scheme hasn't been working for quite some time on the 4-3.

    So what are the coaches doing? switching it up between a 4-3 and 3-4. I think they understand now that we can use 3-4 to disguise coverages and make new blitz packages as well as cover packages to utilize the talent we have at the backers.

    The effort is all there on defense, they'll take time to lock down the techniques. I'm willing to BET that our defense will be pretty mean at the end of the season.

    Be positive.

  2. #2
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    This board has plenty of optimists and pessimists and plenty of folks in the middle. And the truth is that there have always been Broncos fans of all sorts. People talk football and have differing opinions and personalities that go with those opinions.

    Anyhow, if the Broncos fail, fans aren't to blame. That's silly.

    The Broncos look AMAZING on offense and pretty bad on defense, but against two pretty good offenses. They kind of look like they've worked too hard on stopping the run and not enough on stopping the pass and getting to the QB.

    Our linebackers do not look elite to me. Our safeties don't really either at this point. Our nicklebacks don't look great.

    But, I do think that we have been giving up a lot of big plays which is more worrisome than if they were allowing long drives because it allows teams to keep up with our offense better. If they can get better at stopping big plays, I think they'll force teams to be able to drive down the field. If they can do this, they only have to stall a good number of drives and they'll win most games comfortably.
    My adopted fan is dogfish

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  3. #3
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    Well Said. Thank you for being those few that think we're on top of the world =]]
    The Valiant History of the AFC West (Except for the Chargers):

    Denver Broncos: 2x World Champions. 6x AFC Champions. Overall Record: (.532)
    Oakland Raiders: 3x World Champions. 5x AFC Champions. Overall Record: (.590)
    Kansas City Chiefs: 1x World Champions. 2x AFC Champions. Overall Record: (.528)
    San Diego Chargers: NEVER BEEN WORLD CHAMPIONS. 1x AFC Champions. Overall Record: (.493)

  4. #4
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    ---

    In our three wins, there have been much more negative fans jumping at the fact that we beat a lousy team, then we get a call and receive little credit for actually putting up 39 points, and finally we get the win for a missed FG.

    Then fans are tearing up our D more than those offenses have. I understand that our defense has underperformed to a great extent. Sproles ripped us one week and Brees carved us up the next. But i'm glad to see the defense MAKING plays when it had to, which says a lot about them. With that kind of effort, theres no reason not to believe we will improve.

    As i've said, that 3-4 defense thing, i think it's a wise decision because our DEs dont appear to be improving any time soon. The change was made, the talent is there, effort is being put in by players, we WILL improve.

  5. #5
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    if u miss optimism then dont come here. smart intellignet football fans know weakness when they see it last year we saw it with the run and said something....7-9 here we go. this year we see bad things against the pass....the only difference is this year we have the offense to back up our d a little.


    if you are upset about the fact people are calling out our defense after giving up over 500 yds in offense. then perhaps its time you sit back and rember that you need defense to win a SB( just ask the patriots) and that while its nice to be 3-0 we could just as easily be 1-2 with this forum in evenm worse turmoil....


    its a free world and i love the broncos. but that doesnt stop me from seeing when a piss poor defesne is on the field agains the pass, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE QB IS!

  6. #6
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    Critiquing the team is only helpful.
    Cheer-leading is only counterproductive delusion.

    If something is not working, saying it's fine doesn't solve the problem. Only by admitting there is a problem can a path to solving it be made. Before moving from Orange Colored Glasses to General Discussions, pass a 12-step program.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevation INC View Post
    if u miss optimism then dont come here. smart intellignet football fans know weakness when they see it last year we saw it with the run and said something....7-9 here we go. this year we see bad things against the pass....the only difference is this year we have the offense to back up our d a little.


    if you are upset about the fact people are calling out our defense after giving up over 500 yds in offense. then perhaps its time you sit back and rember that you need defense to win a SB( just ask the patriots) and that while its nice to be 3-0 we could just as easily be 1-2 with this forum in evenm worse turmoil....


    its a free world and i love the broncos. but that doesnt stop me from seeing when a piss poor defesne is on the field agains the pass, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE QB IS!
    Since when did negativity produce a positive result? I guess if you had a son/daughter playin sports it would be perfect to criticize him and kill his confidence while you're at it. But you love him anyway right?

    Our defense give up some points this year, but it will improve a lot and make lots of plays towards the end of the season. You heard it here first. You can count on it






    Quote Originally Posted by sage View Post
    Critiquing the team is only helpful.
    Cheer-leading is only counterproductive delusion.

    If something is not working, saying it's fine doesn't solve the problem. Only by admitting there is a problem can a path to solving it be made. Before moving from Orange Colored Glasses to General Discussions, pass a 12-step program.
    I never claimed that the problem was "fine" and that would solve the problem. I'm simply pointing out the strengths of our defense that will prove to be incredible down the stretch. This also proves the point of this post that there are negative broncos fans like yourself.

    Read my post, there are definitely problems, and i'm contending that the strengths will overcome it. What in the world is your solution? You're only tossing in the drama like the others.
    Last edited by cammina; 09-23-2008 at 01:37 AM. Reason: adding

  8. #8
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    I'm not much into "fan threads" but that is pretty solid 4th post cammina...

    You mentioned the optimism that went along during the Elway-era... Fans of the team was not able to openly discuss football topics like they can now...Fans of sports and life in general has changed considerably since the Elway era.. Elway took the Broncos to the playoffs his first year and shortly after 3 Super Bowls...The Broncos are coming off one of it's worst defensive efforts as a team and a 7-9 season....So far this season as you mentioned in the thread and I agree with it ....

    And CLEARLY, our scheme hasn't been working for quite some time
    If fans come here disgruntled about any part of the team its players and it's coaches...That dont necessarily mean they are not optimistic about the team...

    I come here to voice my opinion about the team almost on a daily level...My opinion's are not always positive...But as a fan I have always been very optimistic about the Broncos....

    The forum has an Orange-Colored Glasses section ....If I want to only interact with positive thoughts about the team..Discusing "fanhood" and how I and others should think and feel is pretty meaningless..

    You're only tossing in the drama like the others.
    C'mon give me a break....This is an example of drama tossing....

    But still I appreciate the effort you put into the thread and sharing some of your views about the team.....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammina View Post
    Since when did negativity produce a positive result? I guess if you had a son/daughter playin sports it would be perfect to criticize him and kill his confidence while you're at it. But you love him anyway right?

    Our defense give up some points this year, but it will improve a lot and make lots of plays towards the end of the season. You heard it here first. You can count on it








    I never claimed that the problem was "fine" and that would solve the problem. I'm simply pointing out the strengths of our defense that will prove to be incredible down the stretch. This also proves the point of this post that there are negative broncos fans like yourself.

    Read my post, there are definitely problems, and i'm contending that the strengths will overcome it. What in the world is your solution? You're only tossing in the drama like the others.


    thats the problem with sports and it starts with parents who have the mindset you do. lets baby our kids and tell them they are great there whole career so when they get to the pros and get paid they get a rude awakening. my daughter is now 3 years old and when she starts sports i will teach her all i know and be positive. but that wont stop me from critizing mistakes, and showing her whats right and wrong because she wont get better if I tell her she is doing everything right but she really isnt.

    your analogy was stupid.


    my solution----stop the vanilla defense, blitz, adjust when the o figures our d out, and have the pro bowl corners and our safties start covering guys for a change......
    Last edited by elevation INC; 09-23-2008 at 02:25 AM.

  10. #10
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    Distinction

    There's a distinction problem here. I fully appreciate fans who can use critical thinking and critique the game with a watchful eye, that's real football talk.

    I also appreciate posts that can deliver a good point as to why our team is performing in a certain way pertaining to a certain aspect of the game.

    The difference, as you may have noticed, are the drama threads. Threads with titles screaming "OMG" "***" "FIRE HIM" blah blah.

    Between whining and careful observation and thought development is the distinction between two generation of fans i've seen.

    I don't have kids, and I'm quite young; I do understand, however, that kids need all the confidence they can get without falsifying or misrepresenting to them what their true abilities are. There is a supportive nature and way to talk about things. Certainly, criticism is needed to keep them level and grounded, but there is a proper way to do it.

    My analogy is up for interpretation, you can read the fine lines or look at it and think about different situations.

    There is a REASON Shanahan is a great coach, Ya just don't see him tearing up a player using poor attitude and judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by elevation INC View Post
    my solution----stop the vanilla defense, blitz, adjust when the o figures our d out, and have the pro bowl corners and our safties start covering guys for a change......
    Um, how exactly are you proposing for this to happen? We blitzed, we adjusted from 4-3, to 3-4, back to 4-3, and then to mass coverage. Are we supposed to send the house so Brees could screen to Bush and take it for 7 every time? And how about you convincie our pro bowl corners to cover for 6 seconds ( I counted ). This is a proposal for "change", not a solution.

    For the fans, it'd be refreshing to hear you refer to Jarvis Moss as, "He's got great potential, but very undersized and taking quite some time to develop" Versus the common:

    "BUST!!!! Bench his a$$, *** was the coaches thinking drafting someone like that? He's getting his a$$ shoved around" blah blah blah.

    Catch my drift?
    Last edited by cammina; 09-23-2008 at 02:48 AM. Reason: fixss

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammina View Post
    There's a distinction problem here. I fully appreciate fans who can use critical thinking and critique the game with a watchful eye, that's real football talk.

    I also appreciate posts that can deliver a good point as to why our team is performing in a certain way pertaining to a certain aspect of the game.

    The difference, as you may have noticed, are the drama threads. Threads with titles screaming "OMG" "***" "FIRE HIM" blah blah.

    Between whining and careful observation and thought development is the distinction between two generation of fans i've seen.

    I don't have kids, and I'm quite young; I do understand, however, that kids need all the confidence they can get without falsifying or misrepresenting to them what their true abilities are. There is a supportive nature and way to talk about things. Certainly, criticism is needed to keep them level and grounded, but there is a proper way to do it.

    My analogy is up for interpretation, you can read the fine lines or look at it and think about different situations.

    There is a REASON Shanahan is a great coach, Ya just don't see him tearing up a player using poor attitude and judgment.



    Um, how exactly are you proposing for this to happen? We blitzed, we adjusted from 4-3, to 3-4, back to 4-3, and then to mass coverage. Are we supposed to send the house so Brees could screen to Bush and take it for 7 every time? And how about you convincie our pro bowl corners to cover for 6 seconds ( I counted ). This is a proposal for "change", not a solution.

    For the fans, it'd be refreshing to hear you refer to Jarvis Moss as, "He's got great potential, but very undersized and taking quite some time to develop" Versus the common:

    "BUST!!!! Bench his a$$, *** was the coaches thinking drafting someone like that? He's getting his a$$ shoved around" blah blah blah.

    Catch my drift?

    i agree with the distinction part some people take a little far..even me sometimes.


    with regards to the defense they threw all over us the 2nd quarter to get back in the game when we had a 21-3 lead and you know how they did it. underneath routes, because we had a 3 man front and everyone 15 yds deep in coverage. then during the half we finally made some adjustments, and went back to a 4-3 and suprise there was a little more pressure, not much but a little. maybe because its almost impossible to get a pass rush with a 3 man front. we are playing very vanilla defesne untill they run then we stack the box and leave the corners and safties to play and ghuess what they get burned. was manuel covering for six seconds when meachem abused him???? no he wasnt was champ covering for six seconds when moore made consecutive slant catches on him??? no he wasnt. and you say blitzing will levae us exposed???? in some ways yes but when you put a qb on his butt even if you dont get the sack he still can get rattled. if we do MLB blitzes and safety blitzes that still leaves boss and DJ for screens outside and both can get to the sideline pretty fast.

    overall i blame everyone including slowik which is why i said stop the vanilla defesne mix it up. blitz more than 2 times a game. stop the 3 man front bs. and have our safties and corners make plays. its one thing for our supertsar secondary to get beat deep when the ydo have to cover for six seconds, but it is another thing entirely getting beat on underneath routes because of blown coverages which happened alot by all parties in the secondary.



    as for jarvis moss-----he is a bust period!!!! he is not suited for a 4-3, so the pick was a waste for us, once bates was scrapped, because he does not fit our scheme. does this mean he is always a bust ??? no i have no doubt that if he goes to a 3-4 team he will excel, but ina 4-3 it just aint gonna happen. even if we give him 5 years to adjust to the pros. as a 1st rd pick, your potential should only get you so far if you dont produce and thats whats happening here.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammina View Post
    I contend that this generation of Broncos fans are some of the worst and fiercely negative fans.

    I sincerely miss the optimism that went along during the Elway-era. Even when Elway lost games, fans were always supportive and most importantly, hopeful.

    The distinction with the current fans is that we dogpile on a particular weakness our team presents and dissect it to the point that it becomes disruptive, counter-productive, and disgusting.

    The Broncos' success has a lot to do with the fans; if you truly want your team to succeed, learn to be 100% supportive.


    We've received an offense from Shanahan that is so much more than we could have hoped for during the offseason. Realistically, our collection of Marshall, Cutler, Sheffler, Graham, Clady, Harris, Stokely, Royal, Hamilton, Wiegmann, and Kuper would have not been possibly if Shanny didn't do a good job of collecting and managing that level of talent.

    Defensively, there is a clear understanding that we don't have the best talent around. From an optimistic standpoint, our defense is MUCH improved. I'll tell ya why:

    DBs: Champ Bailey is and will remain the best for a very long time. The fact that he's invisible on the field to fans is that he shuts off half the field and the camera is zoomed in on the other side.

    Dre Bly's is playing his role as intended, a risky playmaker that covers just enough to funnel the passes down the middle to the linebackers/safeties.
    I don't know how fans have the expectation that Bly HAS to do as well as Baliey does. If Hall/Aso/Cromartie were any indication, it's not realistically possible to get someone of equal talent as Champ.

    LBs: We've collected, once again, a speedy set of Lbs to keep up with the pass happy offenses around the league today. They're also quick enough to plug the holes and stop the run. With the LBs as light as they are, it necessitates that Lbs get to their position and the rest of the defense plays as a unit and swarms to the ball.

    Dline: Robertson has a lot to do with our much improved run defense(Watch the games). But the line is also our weakest link. The better teams can pressure with just 4 guys, we can't do that.

    Why our defense is bending so much but will improve:

    We don't have the talent to pressure the Qb with our line; but we're stacked with talent at Lbs and Dbs. And CLEARLY, our scheme hasn't been working for quite some time on the 4-3.

    So what are the coaches doing? switching it up between a 4-3 and 3-4. I think they understand now that we can use 3-4 to disguise coverages and make new blitz packages as well as cover packages to utilize the talent we have at the backers.

    The effort is all there on defense, they'll take time to lock down the techniques. I'm willing to BET that our defense will be pretty mean at the end of the season.

    Be positive.

    I think a lot of it is fans venting, well that and the fact that I dont remember forums during the Elway era (but thats another story).

    Second, as a venting fan I have to say that I complain much more about the scheme and horrible DL coaching the team is getting. I am always positive but I use logic in my process... if I think Den doesn't have a chance I am still screaming at my TV for good play (If its a freaking blue moon and a Den game is actually aired where I live, otherwise I yell at the computer ). Im always positive.

    My thing is when I see poor performances by players Im not going to in good conscience sit hit and say this player or positional corp is doing great, this that and the other.

    Positive and realistic. However, I 'd like to see some joker come on these boards and talk smack... that person would get hit by so many people around here. I think another thing about all the venting is the fans are so passionate that losing while inevitable sucks and fans dont like it, probably more on occassion than players.

  13. #13
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    Every fan base will have the "realists" vs. the "optimists"...I think it's what makes for a great fan base, and at the same time, keeps everyone in check by offering both viewpoints.

    I would like to think that I fall somewhere in between the realists and optimists.

  14. #14
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    i will say whatever i want about my team, and if you think this thread will change that you are crazy

    be it positive or negative i really dont care. I call it like i see it and we flat out suck on D and STs. and YES we did get lucky with the chargers game, it was a blown call and yes we should have lost . . . . does it mean im not happy about the win . . hell no i love the W but you cant deny that if they made the right call we would have lost, i dont care that we still had to execute the TD and 2pter

    as for the NO i think we probably would have won anyways even if that FG was made because i have that much confidence in our O

    the fact is our D has now given up 2 21-3 leads back to back . . . that is something that shouldnt happen and they need to fix it
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh1984 View Post
    Every fan base will have the "realists" vs. the "optimists"...I think it's what makes for a great fan base, and at the same time, keeps everyone in check by offering both viewpoints.

    I would like to think that I fall somewhere in between the realists and optimists.
    dont forget there is also the pessimists as well . . . . many times posters here confuse that with the realists

    the realists can and will admit when something is good the pessimists usually dont and i think that annoys me the most, when im called a negative person because i can see OBVIOUSLY that our D is in dire need of improvement
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