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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    What you fail to mention is that most of the defensive personnel are the same.

    Boss Bailey is the only decent player we have added this offseason.

    McCree and Manuel are stopgaps, not solutions. Dewayne Robertson's chronic knee condition means the hourglass has turned over on his career,
    and he is year-to-year at best.

    We are waiting for Moss and Crowder to grow up and contribute, but they haven't.

    You can't expect Slowik to make a chicken dinner out of chicken sh*t, because that's what he has to work with.

    That's for the most part how I feel. Most of the players are the same as last year with the exception of a few. Manual wasn't even supposed to make the team till we had problems with abdullah and lynch. Dewayne robertson is another tack in a long line of failed free agent defensive lineman. Most of the team is the same however and I don't expect slowik to do much better with what he has

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Yeah I realize they have problems due to offense but you just pointed out my point that they have a lack of talent and let some very quality players from last year go. The patriots haven't always had as high flying and efficient of an offense as last year but manage to always find the playoffs and usually go deep because of defensive schemes. This year they don't seem to have the talent to get away with any of this

    and again we are equal to the talent we had in 05 and 06...why were we so good then on defnese

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    i dont even mean trash the scheme...i mean tweek the scheme

    heres a typical scenario that we have seen all season....make a couple stops on 1st and 2nd forcing a offense into 3rd and long...what do we do?


    we play the two good cbs 10yards off the line, give the wrs a clean release, rush three or four straight up...no stunt, no blitz, nothing to confuse or pressure a qb...and fall back into this soft zone where the qb has all day to find a wr...who simply breaks into the middle after the corner or nickle releases him to the deep coverage...over an over...game after game

    how do you fix that?...mix it up...play man , bump them at the line disrupt the pattern, send in some blitzes, stunts, something to hurry a throw...we dont

    tweek the scheme
    And all I'm saying is that it may be possible that slowik and shannahan feel that we may not have the players to do those kind of mixes. I would like to see the same thing on third and long and have been rather confused why it hasnt' been happening. But they get paid to do this and I don't for a reason. There is obviously things that we dont see that they do. Maybe they try these things in practice and it goes to hell and so they dont use it in game situations. You can only do the best you can with the personell you have

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    What you fail to mention is that most of the defensive personnel are the same.

    Boss Bailey is the only decent player we have added this offseason.

    McCree and Manuel are stopgaps, not solutions. Dewayne Robertson's chronic knee condition means the hourglass has turned over on his career,
    and he is year-to-year at best.

    We are waiting for Moss and Crowder to grow up and contribute, but they haven't.

    You can't expect Slowik to make a chicken dinner out of chicken sh*t, because that's what he has to work with.

    nope not the same....thomas crowder and moss were rookies....doom was in his first year of starting and should be better, lynch was a liability, ekuban was gone, dj was out of position, webster was out of position, gold was trash

    by all rights we should have improved with these guys and the changes...we went backwards

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    and again we are equal to the talent we had in 05 and 06...why were we so good then on defnese
    Actually we weren't all that great on defense. Alot of it was misleading due to the fact that we could jump out to quick leads and force teams to pass which at the time was our defensive strength. But we had Al Wilson back then so our talent is not equal to that season. But I believe our rushing defense yards per carry was over 4. The yards per game were misleading because we were always in the lead. Also back then people were still dumb enough to throw at champ alot so balls ended up picked off. 10 I believe. But look what happened with the steelers. He only threw at champ twice. got away with it the first time and picked apart the rest of our secondary all game. There are several differences between this year and the 05 defense and it shows

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    nope not the same....thomas crowder and moss were rookies....doom was in his first year of starting and should be better, lynch was a liability, ekuban was gone, dj was out of position, webster was out of position, gold was trash

    by all rights we should have improved with these guys and the changes...we went backwards
    I don't agree we have gone 'backward'.

    We have not improved, but we have not gone backward.

    Really, what's the differenmce between the number 29th ranked defense and the number 26th?

    A few yards here or there.

    ...and you have to remember, they pretty much shut down Bates' defense at the BYE week last year, and implemented much of what Slowik is using now, sans the 3-4 stuff, and they gradually improved a little.

    I am not a huge Slowik advocate, but I don't think he has alot to work with in the front seven.

    I actually like some of the fronts he uses, the Broncos biggest problem has been failing to defend on third down and defending the run, especially yesterday in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    The Slowick Improvment!!
    now we all recall the horrible defense displayed by the broncos in 07..cost bates his job and rightfully so..but slo promised a better defense, a more attacking style, blitzing from all angles, shutting down the run the goal, so lets see how this has worked

    bates defense -07

    pass defense... 7th
    rushing............30th
    scoreing..........28th

    total...............19th

    keep in mind that slo is supposedly a Db mastermind and a takeoff of the coyer system

    slowick 08

    pass defense..32nd...a whopping 25 spot drop!!!!
    rushing..........26th...a slight increase with all his devotion in the off season
    scoreing........28th....push

    total............30th...a 11 spot drop


    now im not a rocket scientist, nor did i stay in a holiday inn express last nite....but even i can see....despite getting upgrades in talent...our whole defense has gotten worse....shanny...oh shanny...you do realize that we will never win anything nor go anywhere with a defense so attrocious...do we ride it out or attempt a fix NOW
    The reason our pass D is looking worse than last year is not because of Slo but due to the fact that this year we are better on stopping the run and teams are now throwing a little more on us. Not to defend or drill Slo, but I think D-Stats are not for the Broncos this year, but overall I see improvements from week to week. Ofcourse we as fans would like to see quicker turnaround than what we've got so far, but overall, aside from the stats, our D is a little better than last year.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Actually we weren't all that great on defense. Alot of it was misleading due to the fact that we could jump out to quick leads and force teams to pass which at the time was our defensive strength. But we had Al Wilson back then so our talent is not equal to that season. But I believe our rushing defense yards per carry was over 4. The yards per game were misleading because we were always in the lead. Also back then people were still dumb enough to throw at champ alot so balls ended up picked off. 10 I believe. But look what happened with the steelers. He only threw at champ twice. got away with it the first time and picked apart the rest of our secondary all game. There are several differences between this year and the 05 defense and it shows
    Exactly right...the 'Browncos' were actually very good in their first year in Denver. Warren played very well, was almost a Pro Bowler, and the Broncos thought enough of his play to give him a huge contract extension.

    Michael Myers was very soilid, and even Courtney Brown had him moments, as did Ebenezer Ekuban.

    ...and Al Wilson was a huge factor we have not even come close to replacing.

  9. #84
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    i remember when all this lack of defense started.
    remember a sunday night game back in..06 i think or maybe 05. sunday night against the chargers. we were smacking them in the first half. i think 21-3. we WERE the best defense in the afc with al wilson and the gang. THEN 2 half comes and the defense Stopped playing. From that game on, we blew out leads.
    Not saying that that game had something specific, just saying When problems started.

  10. #85
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    I dont think this team has no where near the same talent of the '05 team on defense and the '06 defense sucked..What the '05 did not have for talent they made up in for it with toughness,cohesiveness and xp and it go's well into what I was pointing out about losing Al Wilson,DW and the trickle down effect of the AFCCG fall out look at the rushing stats per game in '05

    '05 Rushing yds allowed per game...
    151 L
    79 W
    74 W
    12 W
    125 W
    89 W
    97 W
    79 W
    60 W
    19 W
    85 W
    168 L
    72 W
    75 W
    87 W
    91 W

    Now look at the '06 team vs Rush per game....Clearly it begin somewhere during this year...

    125 L
    145 W
    50 W
    103 W
    85 W
    34 W
    92 W
    96 W
    46 W
    125 L
    223 L
    108 L
    143 L
    100 W
    149 W
    189 L

    One of my best threads IMO was a sad failed attempt to somehow defend Bates ....
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=103124

    I broke the '06 season down to a tee to show that the run defense was not good whatsoever even though they finished 12th in rushing yards allowed in that case that stats did lie...
    Last edited by LarryDean; 10-13-2008 at 03:23 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by isiddiqi View Post
    The reason our pass D is looking worse than last year is not because of Slo but due to the fact that this year we are better on stopping the run and teams are now throwing a little more on us. Not to defend or drill Slo, but I think D-Stats are not for the Broncos this year, but overall I see improvements from week to week. Ofcourse we as fans would like to see quicker turnaround than what we've got so far, but overall, aside from the stats, our D is a little better than last year.
    How are we better at stopping the run? That makes no sense after what ive seen. Teams can both stop the run and stop the pass at the same time, it's not pick and choose.

    Everyone seems to forget what slowik did with the packers. They had a TON of talent, and he turned them into what we have now. 1 year removed from that system and GB had a top 10 defense. It's as much the scheme as it is the players.

  12. #87
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    I think Arapaho is the only one who seems to think slowik and his schemes are the major problem over the lack of talent. It seems like only the people posting are arguing against his point and pushing the lack of talent perspective. There doesn't seemto be anyone else who has come on here and made a push for the scheming being the problem. Though I feel the scheming hasn't been great it seems Arapaho is the only one who doesnt feel that slowik is doing the best he can with what little he has. Everyone else seems to be in agreement that for the most part the talent sucks

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncofanatik View Post
    How are we better at stopping the run? That makes no sense after what ive seen. Teams can both stop the run and stop the pass at the same time, it's not pick and choose.

    Everyone seems to forget what slowik did with the packers. They had a TON of talent, and he turned them into what we have now. 1 year removed from that system and GB had a top 10 defense. It's as much the scheme as it is the players.
    I did not say we don't have any issues at stopping the run, but if you look at it we are a lot better with the exception of allowing some huge plays that distorts the Stats. This year I still see our line to play a bit better against the run, but are not able to generate a Pass Rush. But again for us to be better going forward those big plays on Rush D need to be trimmed down further...

    BTW - I do agree with you on the scheme and Slowik, I am only saying that we are a little better on rush D but only marginal, nothng special Slo has done here...
    Last edited by isiddiqi; 10-13-2008 at 03:28 PM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncofanatik View Post
    How are we better at stopping the run? That makes no sense after what ive seen. Teams can both stop the run and stop the pass at the same time, it's not pick and choose.

    Everyone seems to forget what slowik did with the packers. They had a TON of talent, and he turned them into what we have now. 1 year removed from that system and GB had a top 10 defense. It's as much the scheme as it is the players.
    Yeah and the DC who fixed the packers was Jim Bates. And how did that work out for us? We have stated over and over again that you can't give a DC only 1 year or less and expect him to magically turn things around over night. It takes time.


    p.s. Arapaho I stand corrected. Seems someone else is taking your standpoint

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    Yeah and the DC who fixed the packers was Jim Bates. And how did that work out for us? We have stated over and over again that you can't give a DC only 1 year or less and expect him to magically turn things around over night. It takes time.


    p.s. Arapaho I stand corrected. Seems someone else is taking your standpoint
    I agree that jim bates firing was not a good thing. We just didn't have the dominate line that he needed to work his scheme, but GB did. Slowik however is clueless. He seems to timid all the time. He blitzes on some plays and it works really well, then he gets scared and plays soft zone and gives up the 1st every time. I wouldn't be as upset if we at least tried to defend the pass. I wouldn't totally blame the safeties yet. If you're told to play zone and not try to pick the ball or free roam, what else can you do? You're paid and if you do w/e you want you probably get benched.

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