View Poll Results: Who do you support?

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  • Jay Cutler

    18 38.30%
  • Denver Broncos

    29 61.70%
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  1. #6376
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevation INC View Post
    sorry if im loyal to a guy who is pissed about being shipped out of town he loves against his will for a system Qb some newbie unproven HC feels fits better. sorry if im am loyal to a guy who bled through hell the last 2 years with diabetes to try and win us some games. we won eight last year alone because of him....thats miracoulous considering our defense.


    Sorry if im loyal to a guy who his teammates/coaches/and friends love.

    sorry if im loyal to a guy who deveotes the majority of his free time to helping kids with diabetes.

    sorry if im loyal to a guy who has and is proving to be the best qb denver has had since elway

    sorry if im loyal to a guy that has been here since 2006 working his butt off, over a guy that has provne nothing other than taking a elite offense to the SB only to be shutdown by a good defense.

    sorry im loyal to a guy who flew royal/sheff/clady and some unknow denver offcie worker for free to the probowl

    sorry if im loyal to a guy who says whats on his mind and isnt fake

    sorry if im loyal to a guy that doesnt like the media the same way i dont



    you get the picture yet.....MCD has proven nothing, cutler has worked his ass of for this team and city, and his repayment was a ticket out of town to tampa or detroit.



    I THINK I WOULD BE JUST AS PISSED IF NOT MORE!!!!
    Right then if he gets traded please go to whatever team he plays for. You sure are not a bronco fan, you are a Cutler fan. I never once said the guy is a jerk wad, but why do you hate McDaniels so much? You are so infatuated with Cutler that anyone that doesn't think he fits their system you hate. This is a business, not a who is your friend competition. Why do you think McDaniels hates Cutler? Source please? Get over it, and so should Cutler. He gets paid millions of dollars to play a game.

  2. #6377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    YOu obviously aren't paying attention. We didn't have any more turnovers than the rest of the NFL. We weren't bad at three and outs, and we had more 10+ drives than the rest of the NFL.

    so everything you just stated... is completely irrelevant
    Our turnovers wernt any worst then the rest of the NFL eh. That implies that the rest of the NFL was worst then us.

    Just because we had a lot of 10+ drives does NOT mean we did not have a lot of 3 and outs or that 3 and outs and turnovers were not a problem. I'm not saying we were the worst I'm just saying it was a problem that made a bad defense look worst. Careful how you look at statistics.

    Those games where the offense kept the chains moving and had the ball for 10+ drives the defense generally looked a lot better.

    We were 25th in turnovers. That means only 8 teams turned the ball over more then we did. In the AFC only 1 team turned the ball over more then we did.
    Last edited by SlyBronco; 03-10-2009 at 10:44 AM.
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  3. #6378
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhns View Post
    Which is far better than hating on him and trashing him for no reason.

    "He can't read defenses".... LOL.... Do you really read what you type?
    Can you back that statement up by saying he does? So anything negative against Cutler now is bad right? You either act like a Cutler fanboi or you don't watch NFL. Sure he has tons of good qualities, but reading defenses is not one of them. How many times do you see him stare down receivers? Oh right I forgot Cutler is like a god to you and does no wrong.

  4. #6379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buenacolt11 View Post
    Great post. I dont agree 100% on everything but well put nonetheless. I will add to your argument the relationship dynamic as a reason for trading Cutler. As Ive said in a couple of other posts since this all has begun, Cutler knows that McDaniels feels he (Cutler) is replacable. The Cassell thing speaks volumnes. And as MF said, throw Bowlen into the mix and you have a HC, a GM and an owner who believe that there is a better option, somewhere, than what they currently have.
    I dont buy into the argument that the Broncos and McDaniels are in a "win now" state. The fact they are willing to overhaul the D by switching to the 4-3 shots that argument down. It will take at least two years to find the right players. I think Josh has, as any new HC, a solid 3 year time frame to reshape this team into his own image (or that of Rockie Mountain Patriots) and produce a winner. If thats the case, then he has no problem dumping Cutler in favor of Simms in the short term and Stafford for the long.
    I agree. I think the hiring of McDaniels was for the long term, and I think Bowlen did understand he was hiring a young guy, and that there were going to be a price to pay now, and bumps in the road along the way. All you have to do is look at Bowlen's track record, and realize he has had just three Head Coaches in his 25 plus years in Denver, so a knee jerk reaction in firing McDaniels does not seem likley, especially if you believe as I do Pat Bowlen knew about the attempt to trade Jay Cutler BEFORE it was attempted.

    You don't just go trading a franchise QB without an owner like Pat Bowlen's knowledge. That would just amount to career suicide for young Josh.

  5. #6380
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    Quote Originally Posted by stnzed View Post
    Below average? That's the second worst defense in franchise history because they flat out sucked ass, they were pathetic. Nothing the offense did was any worse than any other team in the NFL, and there sure as hell nothing to show that they put the defense behind the 8-ball on a historic level.......the evidence is there all you have to do is look.......
    I have been looking, Our D sucked, I'm not arguing that, the 3 and outs and turnovers, along with the injuries did cause the D to look worse then they would have.

    If you want to pretend our offense was so perfect the whole season and then look at the over all statistics to prove your point , then do so. But it is not how things happened.

    But to say our offense did as good as all 31 other teams in the NFL. I don't even know how you can say that.
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  6. #6381
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    Good post, well thought out. I don't agree with it, and that's ok.


    I think something I'll add to this conversation is that Woody said Pat "must be miffed" and we have still heard nothing from him.

    We haven't heard anything from the front office, and the only thing we've heard from Jay is basically "They tried to trade me, I was supposed to be the guy, now I'm pissed".

    We don't know the whole story and people are writing 3000 word essays on the subject.


    ...I wonder what you will write when you are wrong?:cutler::cutler::cutler::cutler:

    Hooray, beer!

  7. #6382
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncofanatik View Post
    Can you back that statement up by saying he does? So anything negative against Cutler now is bad right? You either act like a Cutler fanboi or you don't watch NFL. Sure he has tons of good qualities, but reading defenses is not one of them. How many times do you see him stare down receivers? Oh right I forgot Cutler is like a god to you and does no wrong.
    I would say the yards and TD's show that he can read a defense. His completion percentage says he can read a defense. His INT % says he isn't as bad as you want him to be at turning the ball over. What his stats show is that we put EVERYTHING on his shoulders, in his 3rd year (2nd starting), and told him it was ALL on him to win games.

    I didn't say Culter does no wrong. I didn't say he was the best. I said you are rediculous with statements like that.

    I don't watch the NFL? LOL. It is obvious you have only recently started if you think Culter is anything but special in his first couple years.

    If he can't read defenses, he is the most amazing QB to ever play the game. In that case, when he does learn, there would be no competition for him in the NFL.

    Edit: You confuse cockiness(sp?) and overconfidence in his arm with inablitity to read defenses. Someone like Cassel that just makes the couple reads and throw it away are the ones that don't read defenses as much. Cutler HAD to read defenses or he wasn't doing anything, because he wasn't on a leash like other system guys.
    Last edited by jhns; 03-10-2009 at 10:42 AM.

  8. #6383
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    . . .Also, did you notice the amount of coin the Broncos handed over to Chris Simms? $6 mil for two years for a one year starter in the NFL?

    Considering the Broncos currently have the #12 selection, when paired with the bounty Cutler would bring, the Broncos could easily make a deal for Matthew Stafford, and bring him in to sit behind a veteran QB in Simms that has the demeanor of a mentor.

    Now, you can debate whether or not you like Stafford, or think he is going to be a good QB in the NFL or not, the fact remains he is a viable option for the Broncos should they decide to trade Jay Cutler, and they wouldn't even have to start him in 2009. That would also give McDaniels the time to groom Stafford into the QB he wants, as Stafford has all the physical traits you look for in an NFL QB, and in fact is compared most often to Jay Cutler as his most similar NFL model . . .
    I find this kind of speculation (thought + the real world - emotion) more fun to read that 98% of the Cutler c*** that's been going down on these pages. Thanks for taking the time to compose the thread.

    One thing on Simms: when he was at UT, he was the best pure-passing QB at UT since Bobby Lane. Simms has a good arm and he's fairly accurate. He's also smart, football smart and knows how to play within a role. To me, it would be interesting to see if he could actually carry out a Bronco season that was fairly-well dedicated to re-building (vs. win now).

    I'm hot and cold on Cutler. If he's our QB, I will pull for him 100%, but not forfeit my right to criticize.

    As for Bowlen, I've always felt that he would have spit fire if the Broncos did not entertain talks of any kind about anybody, including Cutler. When you run a business - especially a business involving sports and enterainment - you want to know everything. Especially what the other 31 teams are thinking and what they are willing to do.

  9. #6384
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    I am starting this thread as a counter argument to Mojo's, because he states alot of things as fact in that thread that simply are not ture.

    First of all, no one has adequately explained or even addressed Pat Bowlen in this whole Cutler-trade fiasco. Has anyone else found it strange that he has not even really addressed the entire issue? He certainly has not issued a statement of denial that he knew anything about the attempts to trade Cutler. He was also quoted by Woody Paige in the Denver Post as saying he had been 'miffed' by Cutler's absence at McDaniels press conference after being hired.

    For a man that is ultimately going to decide whether or not to sign off on a lengthy and expensive contract extension for Cutler, you have to wonder if he is having second thoughts about doing that, considering the constant immaturity the QB has disaplayed over his time in Denver.

    Two years ago, Bowlen expressed his concern over the 'dysfunctional' state of the Broncos franchise, and the result was to fire a Head Coach in Mike Shanahan that no one saw coming, and that was after the dismissal of Ted Sundquist, and the eventual removal of the Goodman's.

    Could it be that Bowlen will now turn his attention to the players themselves and ask himslef if the team is not ultimately better off without the distractions, off the field incidents, and petty bickerings that involve his big-name players?

    I think that seems more than likely, and I personally do not see Pat Bowlen as willing to extend Brandon Marshall, who I also believe will be playing out his final games in a Bronco uniform in 2009 after he serves whatever suspension Roger Goodell is going to drop on him.

    Mojo states that the Broncos would have no leverage in trading Jay Cutler now, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the optimum time to trade Cuitler is probably now. The Minnesota Vikings already investigated the availability of Cutler, and certainly that would raise flags in Chicago and would most likely prompt their involvement in a bidding war. The turth is, it only takes two teams to be interested in Jay Cutler to drive the price up, and you could probably add Detroit to that equation, as last time I checked Minnesota and Chicago were in their Division, and not so coincidentally, they need a QB as well.

    Also, did you notice the amount of coin the Broncos handed over to Chris Simms? $6 mil for two years for a one year starter in the NFL?

    Considering the Broncos currently have the #12 selection, when paired with the bounty Cutler would bring, the Broncos could easily make a deal for Matthew Stafford, and bring him in to sit behind a veteran QB in Simms that has the demeanor of a mentor.

    Now, you can debate whether or not you like Stafford, or think he is going to be a good QB in the NFL or not, the fact remains he is a viable option for the Broncos should they decide to trade Jay Cutler, and they wouldn't even have to start him in 2009. That would also give McDaniels the time to groom Stafford into the QB he wants, as Stafford has all the physical traits you look for in an NFL QB, and in fact is compared most often to Jay Cutler as his most similar NFL model.

    When you add to this the fact that Cutler obviously did not endear himself to McDaniels after he was hired, and has not shown he has any desire to do so now, the time to move Jay Cutler may in fact be now.

    The Broncos are already making dramatic changes to their team now, and to delay the inevitable, if that is how they view Jay Cutler's departure from Denver, making this move a year from now would not make much sense.

    The alternative is for Bowlen to fire McDaniels...but again, Bowlen has not stated he was not aware of the attempt to move Cutler, so it was not a move he could consider as insubordination, so there really are no grounds to base his firing on.

    The Broncos aren't talking these days, so all of this surrounding Jay Cutler is speculation. The truth is, it is un-nerving to Bronco fans to have their franchise QB on the outs with the new Head Coach, but if Shannon Sharpe believes Cutler is all but done in Denver, to say that it is not going to happen is just wishing at this point, because there is no concrete reason why Jay Cutler still could not very well be traded before next season.
    Shannon Sharpe never said he's all but done, you are taking him out of context, and I don't remember reading anything about Bowlen being miffed that Cutler was not present for the presser. Link? And when Bowlen said that the locker room was in a dysfunctional state, it was obvious that he was speaking mostly about the defense and how we were seemingly switching schemes on a weekly basis and how the players were all but saying that the D-Coord was making a huge mistake and how they couldn't keep up with all of the changes. You are taking things way out of context and trying to build a controversy when there is none.

  10. #6385
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    Solid post Mind. I tend to agree with this view more then Joros. I believe that Bowlen has invested a lot of faith in MCD and he will back him and his choices. People who say Cutler holds the cards are completely wrong,, no player is bigger then the team. I would love to keep the guy but if we were in a position to trade him in order to gain valuable players of draft picks then i would be all for it. I think we need the picks in order to create a dominant defense. I also believe Simms isnt in Cutlers league but with the talented O line and offense we have he could succeed in being a system qb for mcd while we build up the defense and hopefully add some wins along the way. Obviously Bowlen is going to keep MCD for most likely 3 years in order to fully implement his system. In that amount of time the head coach will hold the cards and cutlers future.

  11. #6386
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncofanatik View Post
    Can you back that statement up by saying he does? So anything negative against Cutler now is bad right? You either act like a Cutler fanboi or you don't watch NFL. Sure he has tons of good qualities, but reading defenses is not one of them. How many times do you see him stare down receivers? Oh right I forgot Cutler is like a god to you and does no wrong.
    If he cannot read defenses, tell me how he's made some of the best plays that I've seen a QB make just off of presnap reads. I'd love to hear evidence that shows that he cannot read defenses, off of anecdotal crud about how he may have thrown the ball into a defender's hands a few times. Even Peyton and Tom do that. Doesn't mean they can't read defenses, and I'd argue that Cutler's stats show that he can read defenses as well.

  12. #6387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedes Owl View Post
    I don't know where to find that stat, but footballoutsiders.com has a set of drive stats.

    And it turns out that Denver had the fewest punts per drive in the entire league.

    So. . .

    The idea that Denver was anything but WAY above average at not having three and outs would be very surprising.

    How the heck, people get perceptions like this is beyond me.

    Next thing people are going to start claiming that Cutler has bad decision making despite throwing for a terrific completion percentage without throwing for that many interceptions per pass attempt.

    Oh wait. . .
    Don't you mean punts per game or punts per quarter? Punts per drive would assume you can punt more than once per drive. Or perhaps you mean punt percentage?

  13. #6388
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    I <3 Jay! I'll stand by him all the way.

    So the two sides need to pull their heads out of their butts and move on. The Broncos have a lot to do and they can't let a rift between the main guy on the team and the coach affect the whole team.

  14. #6389
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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchwar08 View Post
    One thing on Simms: when he was at UT, he was the best pure-passing QB at UT since Bobby Lane. Simms has a good arm and he's fairly accurate.
    As a life long Texas fan, Chris Simms was NOT better than Major Applewhite at the time.

    Hooray, beer!

  15. #6390
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindField View Post
    I am starting this thread as a counter argument to Mojo's, because he states alot of things as fact in that thread that simply are not ture.

    First of all, no one has adequately explained or even addressed Pat Bowlen in this whole Cutler-trade fiasco. Has anyone else found it strange that he has not even really addressed the entire issue? He certainly has not issued a statement of denial that he knew anything about the attempts to trade Cutler. He was also quoted by Woody Paige in the Denver Post as saying he had been 'miffed' by Cutler's absence at McDaniels press conference after being hired.

    For a man that is ultimately going to decide whether or not to sign off on a lengthy and expensive contract extension for Cutler, you have to wonder if he is having second thoughts about doing that, considering the constant immaturity the QB has disaplayed over his time in Denver.

    Two years ago, Bowlen expressed his concern over the 'dysfunctional' state of the Broncos franchise, and the result was to fire a Head Coach in Mike Shanahan that no one saw coming, and that was after the dismissal of Ted Sundquist, and the eventual removal of the Goodman's.

    Could it be that Bowlen will now turn his attention to the players themselves and ask himslef if the team is not ultimately better off without the distractions, off the field incidents, and petty bickerings that involve his big-name players?

    I think that seems more than likely, and I personally do not see Pat Bowlen as willing to extend Brandon Marshall, who I also believe will be playing out his final games in a Bronco uniform in 2009 after he serves whatever suspension Roger Goodell is going to drop on him.

    Mojo states that the Broncos would have no leverage in trading Jay Cutler now, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the optimum time to trade Cuitler is probably now. The Minnesota Vikings already investigated the availability of Cutler, and certainly that would raise flags in Chicago and would most likely prompt their involvement in a bidding war. The turth is, it only takes two teams to be interested in Jay Cutler to drive the price up, and you could probably add Detroit to that equation, as last time I checked Minnesota and Chicago were in their Division, and not so coincidentally, they need a QB as well.

    Also, did you notice the amount of coin the Broncos handed over to Chris Simms? $6 mil for two years for a one year starter in the NFL?

    Considering the Broncos currently have the #12 selection, when paired with the bounty Cutler would bring, the Broncos could easily make a deal for Matthew Stafford, and bring him in to sit behind a veteran QB in Simms that has the demeanor of a mentor.

    Now, you can debate whether or not you like Stafford, or think he is going to be a good QB in the NFL or not, the fact remains he is a viable option for the Broncos should they decide to trade Jay Cutler, and they wouldn't even have to start him in 2009. That would also give McDaniels the time to groom Stafford into the QB he wants, as Stafford has all the physical traits you look for in an NFL QB, and in fact is compared most often to Jay Cutler as his most similar NFL model.

    When you add to this the fact that Cutler obviously did not endear himself to McDaniels after he was hired, and has not shown he has any desire to do so now, the time to move Jay Cutler may in fact be now.

    The Broncos are already making dramatic changes to their team now, and to delay the inevitable, if that is how they view Jay Cutler's departure from Denver, making this move a year from now would not make much sense.

    The alternative is for Bowlen to fire McDaniels...but again, Bowlen has not stated he was not aware of the attempt to move Cutler, so it was not a move he could consider as insubordination, so there really are no grounds to base his firing on.

    The Broncos aren't talking these days, so all of this surrounding Jay Cutler is speculation. The truth is, it is un-nerving to Bronco fans to have their franchise QB on the outs with the new Head Coach, but if Shannon Sharpe believes Cutler is all but done in Denver, to say that it is not going to happen is just wishing at this point, because there is no concrete reason why Jay Cutler still could not very well be traded before next season.
    Could the mods please merge this post with mojo's thread on the exact same topic?

    No offense, Mindfield. It's a great post and I'd say I agree with the gist of it (no one knows what is going to happen and Cutler certainly can still be traded), but as someone who has attacked others on the redundancy of their threads, you ought to know better.

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