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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GridironChamp View Post
    We got some nice encyclopedia sized posts in here

    I understand what your saying (LT and Alastor) and it makes since. Maybe we were
    just too used the lenient forums before the layout change so when the infractions
    became trackable and a lil harsher moderations some of us posters that have been
    here for a while disliked it. I can see how that played out, I still disagree though.

    IMO, until the attacks become personal I think it should be alright. As Top was
    saying, a message board has just always been about speaking your mind, and if
    a small jab or heavy right hand at a coach, player, or team is whats on your mind
    you should be able to say it. I understand how that can make the conversations
    escalate and eventually become more personal and when that gets really bad I
    can see shutting the thread down, but infractions might not be needed.


    Then I'm with RYO, I think a big part of people leaving happened when we had a
    slightly active feedback forum, and it was clear the what the poster's felt, but
    yet things seem to go the other way.


    I guess everything just slightly changed...
    the board isnt saying that you cant take a jab at the coach, players, or team...

    just do it with a lil respect to the players REAL NAME...

    if every post you make someone posts under it.. gridironCHUMP... just using an example... i dont think your a chump in any manner it would get kinda old after every post.. i personally could care less what name someone would call me, having thread after thread about this teams leaders (coaches and players) with childish nicknames gets outta control..

    sure a message board is all for calling out players and teammates... you can do that here all that the mods and staff are asking posters to do is to use the real names or abbreviation names.. not calling them a nickname that is unsuitable for the masses to read...

    look, this is the BRONCOS OFFICIAL MESSAGE BOARD, if they want this to be their "STANDARD" then so be it.. there are other message boards out there that give posters more freedom in how they chat.. this board obviously wants a lil more of a professional standard...

    some other boards allow others to be more free and colorful in their posts, this board wants posters to hold back the antics a lil while getting your main point still across...
    Last edited by saltybuggah; 03-28-2009 at 10:36 AM.


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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltybuggah View Post

    some other boards allow others to be more free and colorful in their posts, this board wants posters to hold back the antics a lil while getting your main point still across...
    that's part of my problem here...i post on another site where anything goes, and have about 25,000 posts there, so old habits are hard to break....sometimes i need to remember where i'm posting before hitting submit reply...the funny thing is that i'm now much more polite on the other site

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc13 View Post
    that's part of my problem here...i post on another site where anything goes, and have about 25,000 posts there, so old habits are hard to break....sometimes i need to remember where i'm posting before hitting submit reply...the funny thing is that i'm now much more polite on the other site
    its an adjustment that some posters need to make and or realize.... this board will change its policies over and over again.. they havent really made drastic changes to there policies they just havent enforced them to the fullest and they still dont enforce them all the time..

    ive posted a "### post rule" post from time to time... i never got hit with an IP, nor did i think it was a violation to the board.. i can see how it could be but then again i can see how it isnt.. its not my call to make thou and if i got hit with an IP i would of just sent out an angry PM to that mod


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc13 View Post
    i then received a 30 pt infraction for calling out a moderator...yet i never named any mod in my thread...i was just curious if my post was something that was regularly given an infraction
    Honestly, no. It's not something that would probably result in a 30 point infraction in the past.

    The thread may well have been left open (or not) and maybe a note or two would be left.

    I personally would be surprised to find that the thread in question, Apoc, would have resulted in an infraction for disregarding site staff in the past.

    Threads like that should have had that result, but they weren't getting that result.

    I confess that I do not moderate the same way the other mods do. I think everyone's already aware of that. I think there's a reason I was asked to become an active mod at the time I was despite that everyone knows I hate moderating and everyone knows how I go about it too.


    Just because people were getting away with it before (calling out the mods) doesn't mean they should have been, or will any longer. I know that's not entirely fair because in some cases people had no way of knowing that this was going to be enforced now. At the same time, it was always a rule, is inappropriate, isn't productive or fair, and shouldn't have been happening in the first place.

    Again, it's not a rule change. It's more a case of the rule being enforced now.

    I can see why some people are going to be caught off-guard by that, but really it shouldn't have been happening to begin with.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc13 View Post
    that's part of my problem here...i post on another site where anything goes, and have about 25,000 posts there, so old habits are hard to break....sometimes i need to remember where i'm posting before hitting submit reply...the funny thing is that i'm now much more polite on the other site
    I'm a member of three boards of that nature, Apoc. I hear you loud and clear on this.

    I'm a goon (somethingawful.com - Not safe for work), I have my own site where we don't even have moderators, I built a site years ago for political discussion that also runs on no moderators, and I am currently a member of another community that has an anything goes mentality for the most-part, but it's not appropriate to name here.

    The cultural differences in those places as compared to some of the other sites I was on...

    I was a goon at the same time that I was handling the web presence of Pandemic, which was a video game forum made up of 13-17 year-old gamer boys. I was also working on a celebrity's web site (she was a soap opera star that moved into movies and wanted to keep her fan base in tact), and then of course I've always been present to one degree or another here...

    These are all very different communities. The cultures are very different, the purpose is very different and thus, so are the rules and the moderations.

    I can think of several ways to phrase this all of which are old cliches, but they're also true. "When in Rome, Know thy audience, Right place - right time, an appropriate venue..."

    In the military we called this "situational awareness."

    Knowing where one was and what that environment was and taking that into account when taking actions or making choices.

    I know it gets tricky and it's hard to manage... Like I said I'm currently part of three boards that have little to no moderation, including my own site that doesn't even have moderators. I also work here and a few other places where that's not remotely the case.

    I know it gets challenging to juggle those different cultures and standards, but... It is what it is. It does have to be juggled.

    I too post very differently here than I do other places. You guys probably wouldn't recognize me on other forums even if I used the same name.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I know it's hard to be a part of many boards that each have a different culture, but it is possible to do so and not have issues. All someone has to do is remember where they're posting at. It might take a little practice, but it's not very hard. It becomes automatic for me - and probably for others too, to simply know where we're at and post accordingly.

    :shrug:

    Does that make sense? I'm not saying it well I don't think, but I tried.

  6. #36
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    alastor, i hear you in both posts....and i also understand the 'situational awareness', i'm a vet too

    i'm learning as i go here. the passion that the broncos bring out of me can make it difficult at times

  7. #37
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    Just to add my I was one of the members who left here. My reason - the change from the blue background to white. Now, I am sure many of you will feel that was a very childish reason. The reason I left had to do with more than just the background color change. When the change was made, I sent Steve an email in regards to it, and we were corresponding on it. On 7-28-07, this is what was said to me:

    It's actually #1 on our "punch list" for the boards right now, ahead of some things that are truly "broken" because of the volume of feedback it's generated.

    Bear with us. You may see some tweaks as soon as this week.

    Then, based on some of Steve's posts in the feedback section, I sent the following:


    Steve - it appears you are totally against giving people an option to choose the background color they prefer. If this is correct, may I ask why?

    His reply:

    Ill repeat what Ive said before please bear with us. There are lots of things in the works.

    This is when I was convinced that it would stay white.

    I bring this up, because unless I missed it, I feel that the real reason the background color was changed was to be in line with the "Broncos Country" theme. If that was the reason, would it not have been better to outright state that was the reason for the change? Rather than leave the impression "take it or leave it"? As I said, that may have been stated, and I missed it.

    My point - communication is absolutely needed, no matter what.

    Also, until a few months ago, I was a mod on another board. To me, it is very important that all mods mod the same way. If not, it totally mixes up the members as to what is ok and what is not ok - i.e. - a member posts something, and nothing is done - but then that same member posts something again, almost identical, and a mod takes action????? It needs to be handled the same way all of the time, not just some of the time.

    In regards to players, coaches, owners - there is nothing wrong with criticism towards them. Of course, there is a proper way for doing that - the words used, but if it is done properly, it should be allowed. I check other team's message boards, and see criticism of players, coaches and owners all of the time.

    Again, just my
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denver Native View Post
    This is when I was convinced that it would stay white.
    Steve was nothing if not completely honest. I can't think of any instance I ever recall where Steve was anything other than totally honest.

    If Steve said other things were in the works, they were. That's just a fact. It wasn't lip-service. Things may have changed or he may not have been at liberty to talk openly about it, but if he said there was stuff being worked on or discussed, there were.

    I just wanted to put that out there.

    To me, it is very important that all mods mod the same way. If not, it totally mixes up the members as to what is ok and what is not ok - i.e. - a member posts something, and nothing is done - but then that same member posts something again, almost identical, and a mod takes action????? It needs to be handled the same way all of the time, not just some of the time.
    I agree with this as well. We as mods do a lot of discussing of things and are always working to be on the same page more. LT and I had about a three hour convo a little while back that served this exact purpose. The other mods are busier or haven't been around as much, but some - like Javalon - are very active in the email discussions.

    It takes time to get on the same page sometimes, especially during periods of adjustment. I don't think anyone here would deny that the current situation with the team has forced the entire community into a period of adjustment.

    It's going to be a small adjustment in the end, and it's not like we're all from different planets, but the situation that was taking place did bring some things to light and it does take time to adjust.

    To be honest, I think we're mostly there already. I think that moving forward the community is going to see a lot of consistency in the moderations. One of the reasons we're working on the infraction system right now is to help make that happen in fact.

    You make a very valid point. Consistency matters - a lot. But we've been working on that and will continue to do so, and it's not as though we were miles apart to begin with.

  9. #39
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    Just my thoughts.....

    Sometimes we get caught up in things because we truly believe the norm is what is accepted at the time. In other words, many folks don't read rulebooks because they tend to observe the behaviour that is going on, and try to fit that environment. Having said that, most of us would not use inappropriate behaviour just because others are getting away with it. That's where personal integrity, pride, common sense and maturity take over.

    It sometimes comes down to the argument.......do we follow the laws word for word, or do we function according to the norms that have been set, not just by the people, but also by the enforcers. For example, if the speed limit on a freeway says 70, but everyone is driving at 80, what do you do? And if no one gets a ticket, does that mean 70 is really 80?

    Hopefully we can manage this place by using common sense, mentoring, and a minimal but necessary level of discipline. This place will prosper in my opinion and be "the place to be" if we can keep it open, mature and fun, with some degree of controversy, which is not only stimulating (from the perspective of interest and open-mindedness) but healthy.

  10. #40
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    Well, I have only been coming for about a year, so I am not necessarily "upt to speed" with the mass exodus that some of you speak of.

    I will say this. I have seen some fluctuations in the sophomoric behavior on the boards, and excessive moderation has definitely not been a problem on these boards.

    I don't care how popular someone is; if they can't understand why they get in trouble for using profanity and for making personal attacks on other people, then that's their problem, not mine.

    I have been a Sunday school teacher for kids from ages 2 to 11 for approximately 6 years now. The rules are communicated to them on what is acceptable behavior, and if they choose not follow those rules then they are put in timeout or they are sent out of the room with their parents.

    I guess what I am saying is that if we can expect a 3 year old child to act like a civilized human being then it's probably okay to ask an adult to control his emotions in the same way.

    As it is stated in the COC, remember that just because someone is not visible there is still a real human being on the other end of the communication. I know many of the childish posters would not have the "huevos rancheros" to say some of the things to my face that they have said to me via the message boards.

    I personally am glad to see that Alastor has been asked to help out here. The mod's here (no matter how lengthy some of their posts are ) do a good job and it is important to remember they are not paid. Inconsistency is to be expected because it is not possible for every conversation to be monitored closely.

    In summary some of the childish behavior is the only thing that has ever led me to consider going to a different website to discuss my favorite team, not excessive moderation. I can also speculate that this is a reason that a lot of the so called "good" posters have left. They get tired of the countless threads and posts made by people who lack maturity (and even decent grammer to some degree )

    There's my
    Last edited by Al Wilson 4 Mayor; 03-28-2009 at 12:38 PM.

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  11. #41
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    I feel somewhat responsible for this latest wave of crackdowns by calling these boards a laughing stock.

    What I SHOULD have said, was General Discussion is a laughing stock. But instead, I made it sound like it was all forums around here. I know others have complained about various things around here as well.

    The main issue at hand was due to the coach McD and Cutler scenario and everyone jumped on a side. That started a lot of negativity and it got out of hand. The constant duplicate threads regarding this main story got out of control and in a hurry. And it didn't stop. I know we are told to report dupes and questionable posts that violate the COC, but it appears that some view the rules differently than others.

    Several suggestions were given to help eliminate some of it but nothing seems to work.

    Younger posters can be immature and that contributed to the madness.

    I see a lot of vets around here with the "on probation" note under their screen names and it makes me wonder why.

    Now people are questioning the size of the signatures.

    I guess the old cliche is true. You can't please everyone.



    I'm just rambling on with random thoughts but one thing is for sure. This place has changed.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Steve was nothing if not completely honest. I can't think of any instance I ever recall where Steve was anything other than totally honest.

    If Steve said other things were in the works, they were. That's just a fact. It wasn't lip-service. Things may have changed or he may not have been at liberty to talk openly about it, but if he said there was stuff being worked on or discussed, there were.

    I just wanted to put that out there.



    I agree with this as well. We as mods do a lot of discussing of things and are always working to be on the same page more. LT and I had about a three hour convo a little while back that served this exact purpose. The other mods are busier or haven't been around as much, but some - like Javalon - are very active in the email discussions.

    It takes time to get on the same page sometimes, especially during periods of adjustment. I don't think anyone here would deny that the current situation with the team has forced the entire community into a period of adjustment.

    It's going to be a small adjustment in the end, and it's not like we're all from different planets, but the situation that was taking place did bring some things to light and it does take time to adjust.

    To be honest, I think we're mostly there already. I think that moving forward the community is going to see a lot of consistency in the moderations. One of the reasons we're working on the infraction system right now is to help make that happen in fact.

    You make a very valid point. Consistency matters - a lot. But we've been working on that and will continue to do so, and it's not as though we were miles apart to begin with.
    I read what I posted, and did not see anything where I stated or implied that Steve was not honest. If so, that was not my intent at all. My point was - if the changes that were made were made to take on the "Broncos Country" theme, that should have been conveyed, if it were known. That definitely would have cleared up a lot of the confusion, the questions, etc. And, as I also stated, it may have been conveyed, and I missed it.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoManiac_69 View Post
    I feel somewhat responsible for this latest wave of crackdowns by calling these boards a laughing stock.
    Don't feel that way. You rightly called out a problem area on the boards. It was (and still is to some extent) very wide-spread. It's not like you caused an upheaval. The problem was a flashing neon sign that I don't think anyone missed. You rightly helped bring attention and discussion to the issue. That thread and the feedback contained within it had an impact, a positive one and a large one.

    There's nothing to regret there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denver Native View Post
    I read what I posted, and did not see anything where I stated or implied that Steve was not honest. If so, that was not my intent at all.
    No, I didn't get that impression from your post. I just wanted to clarify because I thought many might read otherwise into it. Also I was trying to say, but perhaps could have said better, that Steve was definitely not putting you off or anything. I'm sure he just wasn't at liberty to discuss it in more detail.

    My point was - if the changes that were made were made to take on the "Broncos Country" theme, that should have been conveyed, if it were known. That definitely would have cleared up a lot of the confusion, the questions, etc. And, as I also stated, it may have been conveyed, and I missed it.
    I don't know if it was conveyed or not. I don't know if it's entirely accurate even. I'm not sure what went into that decision-making process. I weighed in, I know my opinion was acknowledged both before and after the fact, and I never heard anything else on the matter.

    I think that if they could have told us more, they would have. That's all I'm saying.

    Regardless of what goes on in the community, sometimes certain things for whatever reason simply aren't going to be able to be shared. I don't know anything about the decisions or conversations about the changes to the boards. I wasn't there, and I never heard anything about it. I can only presume that it wasn't an option to discuss it in more depth with the rest of the world, otherwise it would have been.

    :shrug:

    I know that this site and the people here do their best to be open and talk through things when they can, but that's not always an option.

  14. #44
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    Wow. This is an amazing thread. Glad to see it

    Much has been said, and most of it has been said more eloquently than I could manage. Kudos to you all.

    A couple thoughts of my own:

    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoManiac_69 View Post
    What I SHOULD have said, was General Discussion is a laughing stock. But instead, I made it sound like it was all forums around here. I know others have complained about various things around here as well.
    You know what, it did get ridiculous, Joe. I agreed with your general statement about the boards, but agree more that it was mainly GD (and D,T, & FA). It's getting better now, though. The fact that it spiralled down so fast was truly shocking to me. There has always (during my year here) been a certain level of inanity to GD, but it got really bad. So bad, in fact, that I started looking around at the other Broncos fan boards - something I hadn't done in many months. Know what I found there? The same stuff we were dealing with here. I was even warned off of the general Broncos talk section of one of the other sites when I stated that it was my hope to find a refuge from some of the drama. Just goes to show that it was not an isolated phenomenon for these forums, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoManiac_69 View Post
    I see a lot of vets around here with the "on probation" note under their screen names and it makes me wonder why.
    For some of them, I agree. I was left wondering why. For others, I must say that I was not surprised in the least. Disappointed, yes. Surprised, no. I could even have guessed with a couple of them. For one of my favorites, he just kept digging his hole deeper and deeper and did not acknowledge many members' attempts to provide guidance. I can say that what I saw was firm modding, but not unreasonable or over-modding in that instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoManiac_69 View Post
    Now people are questioning the size of the signatures.
    Sig size is actually in the CoC (I believe), but like other things has not been consistently enforced around here. While I have no problems scrolling down past a huge picture in a sig, it is annoying (particularly if someone is on a slow connection and they have to wait for the images to load a long time). I'd even suggest that it gives some insight into that poster's attitude towards the CoC. It's an easy rule to adhere to.




















    Oh, and Alastor - BM69 keeps calling me "corn man."
    Quote Originally Posted by Broncoholic3233 View Post
    FF is awesome!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander Fan View Post
    You know what, it did get ridiculous, Joe. I agreed with your general statement about the boards, but agree more that it was mainly GD (and D,T, & FA). It's getting better now, though. The fact that it spiralled down so fast was truly shocking to me. There has always (during my year here) been a certain level of inanity to GD, but it got really bad. So bad, in fact, that I started looking around at the other Broncos fan boards - something I hadn't done in many months. Know what I found there? The same stuff we were dealing with here. I was even warned off of the general Broncos talk section of one of the other sites when I stated that it was my hope to find a refuge from some of the drama. Just goes to show that it was not an isolated phenomenon for these forums, I guess.
    It is not hard to understand the Cutler trade talks got us all in an uproar and the boards reflected that. People were down right pissed off about it and rightfully so, but the attacks on each other that had chosen "sides" were getting pretty nasty as well.

    Oh and you're a traitor for going elsewhere. LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander Fan View Post
    For some of them, I agree. I was left wondering why. For others, I must say that I was not surprised in the least. Disappointed, yes. Surprised, no. I could even have guessed with a couple of them. For one of my favorites, he just kept digging his hole deeper and deeper and did not acknowledge many members' attempts to provide guidance. I can say that what I saw was firm modding, but not unreasonable or over-modding in that instance.
    Since I decided to avoid GD after the implossion, I did not witness a lot of reasons why some posters were given the slap on the hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander Fan View Post
    Sig size is actually in the CoC (I believe), but like other things has not been consistently enforced around here. While I have no problems scrolling down past a huge picture in a sig, it is annoying (particularly if someone is on a slow connection and they have to wait for the images to load a long time). I'd even suggest that it gives some insight into that poster's attitude towards the CoC. It's an easy rule to adhere to.
    Being on dial up at home, I can verify the annoyance of some of the images and the time it takes to load but it doesn't bother me toooooo much.




    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander Fan View Post
    Oh, and Alastor - BM69 keeps calling me "corn man."
    Apologies. My mistake. It's soybean man.
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