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  1. #1
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    Why We Didn't Have To Replace The Dline

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...daniels/page/2

    The reason for this myth is the misconception that because Denver’s defense was poor in 2008-2009 and it's line performed so poorly that all of Denver’s defensive linemen had to be replaced. Denver’s defense was poor, and its line did play badly, but the reason for that is under-reported mainly because most sports-writers only look at stats.

    Denver’s defensive guru throughout the glory years of the 70’s and 80’s was a coach named Joe Collier. Collier was the architect of the "Orange Crush Defense" and easily the greatest defensive coach in Denver history. Collier is also regarded as the first man to ever use the 3-4 defense in the pros while an assistant coach with the Bills in 1964.

    From Collier, Shanahan learned the notion of using defensive linemen as blockers to keep offensive linemen off of your linebackers. In Shanahan’s system, the defensive lineman’s first job was to keep the offensive linemen on the line and only rush after they determined it was a pass play.

    Where Collier still used penetration to get that control of the line Shanahan’s approach was more passive. Only the ends were expected to rush in Shanahan's defense, making them easy to block.

    Because of the way Shanahan used his defensive linemen, there were rarely more than two pass rushers on any pass play unless they were blitzing. This resulted in poor stats for the defensive linemen. That was part of the system.

    Added to all that was Shanahan’s poor management skill when it came to working with defensive coordinators—they had four defensive coordinators in eight years with two of them (Rhodes and Slowik) lasting less than a season each.

    Denver’s defense was constantly changing schemes and players often were simply confused by it all.


    CanDB's comments:

    This report makes a lot of sense to me, although I think we could benefit by having another solid defensive lineman on the team. But time will tell, and if Nolan's influence is what I believe it can be, and the defense is allowed to play with more flare, and able to make decisions based on opportunities, quite possibly the group we have now, teamed with the solid linebaking and highly ranked dback units, may surprise. My feeling is that McD and Nolan were satisfied that they didn't have to go to FA or the draft to revamp the dline - other than getting a hybrid "stud" in Ayers, but instead, took a more focused look at the "undrafted" group, as a complement to what we had. And it took some smarts to land the undrafted group that they did......which may in fact someday be looked upon as some of wisest moves made, given the relatively low status of players in this draft category.

  2. #2
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    I seen flashes of brilliance in our defense last year,,, but even the most stout of defenses would wear down if they were on the field as much as our defense was,,, I think our defense will be very good this year,,, No they wont be the orange crush, but I think they are moving in the right direction.

  3. #3
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    My goodness CanDB! Why do you always have to be so postive! You should really start thinking that because ONE player left we are terrible and doomed for the next 8 years!!

    How dare you be optimistic about this season!


    //end sarcasm

    Good post Can! I always love reading all the articles you can find on the internetz.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2009
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    609
    The great Bill Parcels has a saying that takes all rationalization out of anything. " You are what you are" You can find all the articles you want that spin our defensive woes in a way you like to see it. In the end our defense sucked because our talent sucked. The coaches in the NFL are all well versed in the x's & o's. As all the NFL analists that have ever played the games say " The NFL is about the Jimmies and the Joe's. Cam Cameron was great offensive mind and had a system. How did he work out in Miami. Whats the record of coaches following ledgends. Whats the Great Bill Belichecks record without Brady as QB . Coughlin was a joke about ready to be fired in NY. He became a genius once he put together the best front four in the game today. Is there a possiblity that JMD upgrades front 7 in the next couple of years? Yes. It will take more than one offseason to fill in all the gaps. Even if the rookies are all future HOF, the track record show it takes a few years to devlop into a player that contributes significantly. In the end Systems are overrated. This games all about talent
    My friends over at Sports Radio Interviews sent me a link to an interview Pat Bowlen did with a Chicago-area radio station. While there is nothing earth-shattering here. Below is a segment of the transcript -

    What are the Bears getting in Jay Cutler?

    “They’re getting an extremely talented young quarterback.”


    Some one Please name me the last successful NFL QB that had to be taught how to throw the ball correctly.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by broooks77 View Post
    My goodness CanDB! Why do you always have to be so postive! You should really start thinking that because ONE player left we are terrible and doomed for the next 8 years!!

    How dare you be optimistic about this season!


    //end sarcasm

    Good post Can! I always love reading all the articles you can find on the internetz.
    Ha ha brooooooooooooks!!!

    I sometimes spend hours writing an article that ends up sounding a bit like one of these other "ordinary" dudes........so why bother writing????

    This is one with much more info than I would have provided (on Collier and stuff)......


    By in all honesty.......I am getting pumped thinking about our D.......it's a combination of Nolan's influence and game strategy, the addition of some serious leaders via FA, the young studs picked in the draft - can't wait to see Ayers and Smith and the others grow in this system, the solid "undrafted" signings - even if only one of them pans out, and the crew from 08 who have something to prove going forward.

  6. #6
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    This is yet another blog entry from someone that has no clue what they are talking about. Does bleacher report even care if you know football before you post your blog?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by it'sjustagame View Post
    The great Bill Parcels has a saying that takes all rationalization out of anything. " You are what you are" You can find all the articles you want that spin our defensive woes in a way you like to see it. In the end our defense sucked because our talent sucked. The coaches in the NFL are all well versed in the x's & o's. As all the NFL analists that have ever played the games say " The NFL is about the Jimmies and the Joe's. Cam Cameron was great offensive mind and had a system. How did he work out in Miami. Whats the record of coaches following ledgends. Whats the Great Bill Belichecks record without Brady as QB . Coughlin was a joke about ready to be fired in NY. He became a genius once he put together the best front four in the game today. Is there a possiblity that JMD upgrades front 7 in the next couple of years? Yes. It will take more than one offseason to fill in all the gaps. Even if the rookies are all future HOF, the track record show it takes a few years to devlop into a player that contributes significantly. In the end Systems are overrated. This games all about talent
    I think the original Orange Crush, as talented as some of the players were, is a good reminder of how a defense can be effective beyond its talent.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Ha ha brooooooooooooks!!!

    I sometimes spend hours writing an article that ends up sounding a bit like one of these other "ordinary" dudes........so why bother writing????

    This is one with much more info than I would have provided (on Collier and stuff)......


    By in all honesty.......I am getting pumped thinking about our D.......it's a combination of Nolan's influence and game strategy, the addition of some serious leaders via FA, the young studs picked in the draft - can't wait to see Ayers and Smith and the others grow in this system, the solid "undrafted" signings - even if only one of them pans out, and the crew from 08 who have something to prove going forward.
    Oh yes, it will be exciting this year if our defense is even a little bit better than last years. Its going to be a lot of fun this year for us fans that aren't whining and complaining about every little move this offseason.

    Man, I miss football...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by it'sjustagame View Post
    The great Bill Parcels has a saying that takes all rationalization out of anything. " You are what you are" You can find all the articles you want that spin our defensive woes in a way you like to see it. In the end our defense sucked because our talent sucked. The coaches in the NFL are all well versed in the x's & o's. As all the NFL analists that have ever played the games say " The NFL is about the Jimmies and the Joe's. Cam Cameron was great offensive mind and had a system. How did he work out in Miami. Whats the record of coaches following ledgends. Whats the Great Bill Belichecks record without Brady as QB . Coughlin was a joke about ready to be fired in NY. He became a genius once he put together the best front four in the game today. Is there a possiblity that JMD upgrades front 7 in the next couple of years? Yes. It will take more than one offseason to fill in all the gaps. Even if the rookies are all future HOF, the track record show it takes a few years to devlop into a player that contributes significantly. In the end Systems are overrated. This games all about talent
    I do agree. But I also like to hear what CamDB said earlier. We can also find as many articles about Orton and look at all the previous games he had played in and make ourselves think he is going to be OK in our system. We just have to wait and see
    Don't Panic!

  10. #10
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    RELAX..........Know body knows how this thing will play out this year.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhns View Post
    Or a post from someone that knows what they are talking about. First off, the guy has no clue how Shanahan used his d-lineman. Shanahan didn't even have a constant way of using them. That changed with each d-coordinator. This isn't talking about how we will be good in the future, it is a bunch of incorrect information about our past.
    It's a beautiful day...the sky is blue.....the Broncos are looking good to me.....and the last thing I want to do is sink into your "grouchy" world...

    I don't even care if you are potentially right anymore, because it makes no difference until they play. And until they do, I reserve the right to believe I am right and be happy about it, and be a proud Broncos fan. Problem is, you have failed to live up to your end on facts and debate in past (and don't go asking for proof and details like you do - as if anyone gives a hoot), so why bother taking the road you have chosen? It's negative, possibly inaccurate, and a downer. Must be tough.........

    Now back to more positive people and things.......oh, did I tell you it was another beautiful day in Winnipeg?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by it'sjustagame View Post
    TWhats the Great Bill Belichecks record without Brady as QB .
    11 and 5, if memory serves.

  13. #13
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    Omaha
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    It's a beautiful day...the sky is blue.....the Broncos are looking good to me.....and the last thing I want to do is sink into your "grouchy" world...

    I don't even care if you are potentially right anymore, because it makes no difference until they play. And until they do, I reserve the right to believe I am right and be happy about it, and be a proud Broncos fan. Problem is, you have failed to live up to your end on facts and debate in past (and don't go asking for proof and details like you do - as if anyone gives a hoot), so why bother taking the road you have chosen? It's negative, possibly inaccurate, and a downer. Must be tough.........

    Now back to more positive people and things.......oh, did I tell you it was another beautiful day in Winnipeg?
    What are you even going on about? I didn't say anything about the future of this team. I said the blog writer has no clue what he is talking about. I said it the other day about one of these blogs that shares the same opinions as me but also was poorly written with tons of misinformation. I am not biased in doing this. I guess that is what gives you hope though. Poorly written blogs that come to their conclusions with wrong information. Sorry I said something.

  14. #14
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    Nov 2007
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    Las Manzanitas, NM
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...daniels/page/2

    The reason for this myth is the misconception that because Denver’s defense was poor in 2008-2009 and it's line performed so poorly that all of Denver’s defensive linemen had to be replaced. Denver’s defense was poor, and its line did play badly, but the reason for that is under-reported mainly because most sports-writers only look at stats.

    Denver’s defensive guru throughout the glory years of the 70’s and 80’s was a coach named Joe Collier. Collier was the architect of the "Orange Crush Defense" and easily the greatest defensive coach in Denver history. Collier is also regarded as the first man to ever use the 3-4 defense in the pros while an assistant coach with the Bills in 1964.

    From Collier, Shanahan learned the notion of using defensive linemen as blockers to keep offensive linemen off of your linebackers. In Shanahan’s system, the defensive lineman’s first job was to keep the offensive linemen on the line and only rush after they determined it was a pass play.

    Where Collier still used penetration to get that control of the line Shanahan’s approach was more passive. Only the ends were expected to rush in Shanahan's defense, making them easy to block.

    Because of the way Shanahan used his defensive linemen, there were rarely more than two pass rushers on any pass play unless they were blitzing. This resulted in poor stats for the defensive linemen. That was part of the system.

    Added to all that was Shanahan’s poor management skill when it came to working with defensive coordinators—they had four defensive coordinators in eight years with two of them (Rhodes and Slowik) lasting less than a season each.

    Denver’s defense was constantly changing schemes and players often were simply confused by it all.


    CanDB's comments:

    This report makes a lot of sense to me, although I think we could benefit by having another solid defensive lineman on the team. But time will tell, and if Nolan's influence is what I believe it can be, and the defense is allowed to play with more flare, and able to make decisions based on opportunities, quite possibly the group we have now, teamed with the solid linebaking and highly ranked dback units, may surprise. My feeling is that McD and Nolan were satisfied that they didn't have to go to FA or the draft to revamp the dline - other than getting a hybrid "stud" in Ayers, but instead, took a more focused look at the "undrafted" group, as a complement to what we had. And it took some smarts to land the undrafted group that they did......which may in fact someday be looked upon as some of wisest moves made, given the relatively low status of players in this draft category.
    Interesting article and good comments.:salute!:

    D-Lines can play two-gap (passive) or one-gap (aggressive). The little that has leaked out about how the Broncos will play sounds as if it will be a one-gap control, attacking style in conjunction with the backers on run D. Playing one gap on run D morphs nicely into pass rush if the D reads pass. When reading pass the call needs to keep someone for draw responsibility and not stunt through the same gap.

    One-gap/two-gap can be played with any defensive alignment. DL in a 50/3-4 D playing two-gap need to be huge block-eating guys. In a 50/3-4 one-gap style, quickness and penetrating capability are more desired. Based on what I've seen, Thomas and Powell would seem to fit that style.

    Joe Collier was a truly great coach. He did what all coaches do - copy. The so-called 3-4 is the Oklahoma 50 invented by Bud Wilkinson at OU in the fifties. The greatest coaches are the ones who are knowledgeable of football history and who aren't afraid to dip into it when needed.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  15. #15
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    Exclamation Room for an argument.

    Anybody around here wanna talk football?
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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