View Poll Results: Do you trust Woody Paige's reporting?

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  • Yes

    40 36.70%
  • No

    69 63.30%
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by expatRick View Post

    And I'm not sure what it is they don't trust. Does he steal? Does he promise you a ride then not show up? If they don't think he can coach then maybe they should tell him instead of whining to Paige. Involving a third party is cowardly and unproductive.
    Great point, and I agree whole heartedly. As far as the "prominent defensive player" goes, I don't care if it was Champ Bailey. You've been a part of the worst Denver ever in the history of the organization. You shouldn't be feeling safe and hand held in your position regardless. I'm sure if McDaniels could he would turn over every single one of those losers.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    You could interview Sharpe and perhaps Plummer briefly and then post an article: "Veterans don't trust Shanahan".
    Trust me when I say that that is more true than some want to admit.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue719 View Post
    1. For those that don't trust him right now, he can still earn their trust. He has to show them that he isn't going to let them look bad, that the system works and that they can be successful and winners in the system.
    2. For those who do trust him right now (and there are several) many of them are people who have already worked for him and with him in New England. That speaks well of both the man and the system.

    When a new head coach comes to a team, players are slow to buy into the scheme and the changes. It's normal. McD came in and immediately evaluated the coaching staff and let several go, but also brought in several with solid pedigrees. For that, McD needs some credit.

    Shanahan brought in Rhodes and Bates and let both of them go early when they weren't able to do what he wanted with the people they started with, or were able to get on short order.

    When the Cutler issue blew up on McD, a number of players were understandably put out, but if they were fair they also have to know that the NFL is a business and coaches listen to everything and even make trades that players may not like. They can understand that Jay forced his way out of town, not the other way around, and therefore the whole Cutler debacle is as much Cutler's fault as McD's, if not more.

    As for Marshall, this is an issue between a player and management over money, and has nothing to do with McD. Marshall never indicated to Bowlen, according to the articles we've read, that no amount of money would make him willing to play for McD. In fact, Marshall just said he wanted a big payday and he felt underpaid (which he is) and he wanted his money now. That is not a McD issue.

    McD also went through the players and cut a number of high profile, high dollar players that he felt were underperforming for the Broncos.

    As for Leach, which a lot of *fans* are making a big deal of(as opposed to the players), we gave up a solid player and got someone who is generally considered one of the best if not the best, at his long snapper in the NFL, as well as someone who is very familiar with the system that McD will be using. Leach isn't hurting, as Arizona needed a solid long snapper and now they have one. Who knows? Leach may get to the Super Bowl faster on the Cardinals than he would on the Broncos. Players and teams both win.

    I wouldn't worry about this "players don't trust McD" nonsense. I'm sure there were players who didn't trust Shanahan after he fired Coyer for not being able to put up a pass rush with the players that Shanahan allowed him to get. Certainly, a number of players have come through Denver and left not trusting Shanahan.
    The reason I bring up Leach, is that he is one of the best long snappers in the league, was very popular with his teammates, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new LS that McD signed is getting paid more than Leach was. So why cut a player who has proven he is one of the best at his job to pay someone else more for the same results?

    I still believe the Cutler fiasco was McD's fault - yes Cutler was immature, but McD did not handle it well and, he came in saying that he was looking forward to working with Jay, and after the trade didn't happen and Cutler became incensed, McD kept saying he wanted Jay on the team. Now, Bowlen stepped in at that point and said he was going to trade Jay, so maybe (but it's a big maybe) McD wasn't going to trade him until Pat forced him to. But that is why some of the players don't trust him IMO.

    I do agree with you about Marshall. That's all about him and nothing to do with McD.


  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco51 View Post
    Trust me when I say that that is more true than some want to admit.
    This man would probably know......

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80stheman View Post
    The reason I bring up Leach, is that he is one of the best long snappers in the league, was very popular with his teammates, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new LS that McD signed is getting paid more than Leach was. So why cut a player who has proven he is one of the best at his job to pay someone else more for the same results?
    I can think of a number of possible reasons: Leach had one year left on his contract and would want a new one; perhaps the long snapper we got from NE (who is supposed to be even better) was only available now; McD needed to start bringing in some of "his" guys that already knew the system and this was relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other skill positions where he might have to pay considerably more. And that's just off the top if my head while I'm typing. As for Leach being "popular" with his teammates, big deal. Everyone in the NFL knows the mantra: "it's a business." They don't call it the Not For Long for nothing.

    We are fans, and we were demanding change in light of the past three seasons of Shanahan's reign. Bowlen decided that change was needed and brought in McD, and to be fair, you have to give the man a certain amount of control in choosing his players, as long as he improves the team. Leach's replacement, by nearly EVERY source, is better than Leach. McD improved the team.

    I still believe the Cutler fiasco was McD's fault - yes Cutler was immature, but McD did not handle it well and, he came in saying that he was looking forward to working with Jay, and after the trade didn't happen and Cutler became incensed, McD kept saying he wanted Jay on the team. Now, Bowlen stepped in at that point and said he was going to trade Jay, so maybe (but it's a big maybe) McD wasn't going to trade him until Pat forced him to. But that is why some of the players don't trust him IMO.
    Well, perhaps, since we don't really know why any players who are saying this don't trust McD. I personally think that would be a dumb reason, given that in every meeting, Bowlen was right there with McDaniels, and what Jay Cutler was allegedly trying to do was pin down McDaniels in a lie (Jay leaked that McDaniels never would admit his "part" in the affair - why? What is there to be gained? Cutler signed a contract and works for the Broncos, not the other way around. Since when do employees cross-examine their bosses?). And I'm not posting to defend McD, but this kind of "stealth attack" on the coach is patently unfair. There is no way to respond to a whispering campaign behind your back to the press. There is no requirement for the players who allegedly are running this campaign to the press to actually support anything. All they have to do is say "I don't trust him."

    All you can do from that point is your job and do it the best you can. If McD is doing that, they will come around. If he doesn't, then he will make some very public screwups that will cause Mr. Bowlen to have to re-assess whether having Josh McDaniels as the head coach is a good choice.

    I do agree with you about Marshall. That's all about him and nothing to do with McD.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue719 View Post
    I can think of a number of possible reasons: Leach had one year left on his contract and would want a new one; perhaps the long snapper we got from NE (who is supposed to be even better) was only available now; McD needed to start bringing in some of "his" guys that already knew the system and this was relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other skill positions where he might have to pay considerably more. And that's just off the top if my head while I'm typing. As for Leach being "popular" with his teammates, big deal. Everyone in the NFL knows the mantra: "it's a business." They don't call it the Not For Long for nothing.

    We are fans, and we were demanding change in light of the past three seasons of Shanahan's reign. Bowlen decided that change was needed and brought in McD, and to be fair, you have to give the man a certain amount of control in choosing his players, as long as he improves the team. Leach's replacement, by nearly EVERY source, is better than Leach. McD improved the team.
    I have a hard time believing anyone is better than Leach simply for the fact that the entire time he was on the roster there wasn't a single errant snap on a punt, FG or EP. How can you get better than that? I bring up the popularity with teammates issue because, if you want to build strong "team" concept, which is very important to winning (and what McD's supporters are saying he is trying to do here), but you cut a player who is well liked and respected by his teammates, and who excels at his position, then it seems to me, you are eroding that "team" mentality, not strengthening it.

    Well, perhaps, since we don't really know why any players who are saying this don't trust McD. I personally think that would be a dumb reason, given that in every meeting, Bowlen was right there with McDaniels, and what Jay Cutler was allegedly trying to do was pin down McDaniels in a lie (Jay leaked that McDaniels never would admit his "part" in the affair - why? What is there to be gained? Cutler signed a contract and works for the Broncos, not the other way around. Since when do employees cross-examine their bosses?). And I'm not posting to defend McD, but this kind of "stealth attack" on the coach is patently unfair. There is no way to respond to a whispering campaign behind your back to the press. There is no requirement for the players who allegedly are running this campaign to the press to actually support anything. All they have to do is say "I don't trust him."
    The Cutler issue seems so convoluted at this point it's hardly worth debating anymore. My take is that all three men - McD, Cutler and Bowlen - had a big role in it, but if McD had shown Cutler some sort of reason to believe he wanted him on the team none of this would have happened. But maybe that's a simplified view of the situation.

    All you can do from that point is your job and do it the best you can. If McD is doing that, they will come around. If he doesn't, then he will make some very public screwups that will cause Mr. Bowlen to have to re-assess whether having Josh McDaniels as the head coach is a good choice.
    On that we agree. We'll see whether or not McDaniels knows what he's doing starting in Sept.


  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80stheman View Post
    I have a hard time believing anyone is better than Leach simply for the fact that the entire time he was on the roster there wasn't a single errant snap on a punt, FG or EP. How can you get better than that? I bring up the popularity with teammates issue because, if you want to build strong "team" concept, which is very important to winning (and what McD's supporters are saying he is trying to do here), but you cut a player who is well liked and respected by his teammates, and who excels at his position, then it seems to me, you are eroding that "team" mentality, not strengthening it.



    The Cutler issue seems so convoluted at this point it's hardly worth debating anymore. My take is that all three men - McD, Cutler and Bowlen - had a big role in it, but if McD had shown Cutler some sort of reason to believe he wanted him on the team none of this would have happened. But maybe that's a simplified view of the situation.



    On that we agree. We'll see whether or not McDaniels knows what he's doing starting in Sept.
    When it comes to Paxton vs Leach, maybe it is a matter of preference. Do you want an emergency tight end or an emergency offensive lineman? There's no drop off in talent on special teams so maybe McDaniels simply preferred to have an emergency offensive lineman. To me, it's ridiculous for people to complain about the long snapper being replaced.

    When it comes to Cutler, there's really only two people to blame, Cutler and Pat Bowlen. Cutler threw the hissy fit that he had no business throwing. There is no justification. McDaniels is not required to kiss ass to a player. Pat Bowlen is the one that made the decision to trade Cutler. I've seen articles that suggest that perhaps Joe Ellis influenced that decision. I think if you look at how Bowlen handled the rift between Elway and Reeves, you can argue that Bowlen is not comfortable with his head coach and starting quarterback being at odds with each other. He felt he needed to resolve the situation by getting rid of one of them. In Elway vs Reeves, he got rid of Reeves. In Cutler vs McDaniels, he got rid of Cutler. In the first case, Bowlen had an idea of who he wanted to replace Reeves, unfortunately, Shanahan refused to keep Wade Phillips as the DC and since Bowlen was unwilling, at the time, to part ways with Phillips, Wade got the job instead. In the second case, Bowlen really didn't have much choice but to support his new coach. He is still responsible for paying off Shanahan's contract, including the difference between his Broncos contract and whatever he gets paid from another team if he returns to coaching within the next three years. On top of that, Bowlen still has to honor the contracts of the fired assistants that haven't been hired elsewhere. If he were to have fired McDaniels, as some have been calling for, he would owe Shanahan and his assistants plus McDaniels and his assistants on top of a new coach and his assistants. Getting rid of Cutler was a lot cheaper. Money set aside, McDaniels has accomplished more in the NFL than Cutler has. That's two reasons for Bowlen to side with McDaniels.

    Winning cures everything and if the Broncos win, the players will trust McDaniels and his vision. I think there is reason to optimistic that the Broncos are closer to becoming winners than cellar dwellers.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    I don't buy it.

    Even the disgruntled brandon marshall admitted yesterday that the lockerroom is behind and supports McDaniels, seeing as over half the team was brought in by him.

    Woody is just trying to be like Jamie Dukes here. The "prominent player" Woody is referring to is probably some scrub like Vernon Fox or Jarvis Moss
    Brandon Marshall cleared things up don't worry!!!!! Now there's some credibility!!!!!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post

    McDaniels is not required to kiss ass to a player.
    No one said he had to kiss ass, but does being honest mean anything? That's why I think some players don't trust him.


  10. #130
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    I call poppycock .

    Unless he personally gives you a reason not to trust him then why wouldnt the players trust him ? The NFL is a business and how many of these players are on their 3rd and 4th teams. You are the only one that gets to cash your checks so you better believe those players dont care about a players personal business with management.

    After the last few years no one really should be saying anything except that they wanna be apart of turning things around because contrary to popular belief we didnt make the playoffs once and we only finished above .500 one time .
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by KO8pectate View Post
    I call poppycock .

    Unless he personally gives you a reason not to trust him then why wouldnt the players trust him ? The NFL is a business and how many of these players are on their 3rd and 4th teams. You are the only one that gets to cash your checks so you better believe those players dont care about a players personal business with management.

    After the last few years no one really should be saying anything except that they wanna be apart of turning things around because contrary to popular belief we didnt make the playoffs once and we only finished above .500 one time .
    What do you mean "contrary to popular belief"? We all know what has happened the last three years.


  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80stheman View Post
    What do you mean "contrary to popular belief"? We all know what has happened the last three years.
    I think he was being sarcastic. There are a LOT of people that think we were better last year than we really were.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzmaster View Post
    I think he was being sarcastic. There are a LOT of people that think we were better last year than we really were.
    Ya, sarcasm rarely comes across in text. Maybe he should have used this smiley:


  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    You could interview Sharpe and perhaps Plummer briefly and then post an article: "Veterans don't trust Shanahan".
    I think they already did that with Plummer on Rome is Burning awhile age
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  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bioengineer View Post
    Around the horn was talking about jamie dukes article on
    mcd and they agreed players camt trust him. Woody paige said he talked to a prominent player on the team who said he cant trust coach and alot of players were the same way.
    Why don't they trust him? Or, what do they think he's going to do?
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