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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    middle of the palk? discuss like an adult? This is the 3rd time now you've posted something that's nothing more than a biased post. I posted my FACTS AND STATS to back up my opinion on what our problem is. You keep posting and saying things with no evidence to support it what so ever. Middle of the pack???? really??? show me everyone else's offensive line or formation penalties and show us we are middle of the pack.

    Stuff you've said in this thread:
    "its the centers fault" how show us
    "I saw 2 false starts on our center last week" he's only had one all year
    "were in the middle of the pack in penalties" says who you? show us!


    You don't have to agree with me but if you're in here just desperately trying to defend mcdaniels then you're the one acting like a kid. If you want to debate im all for it. But Im debating with facts and stats that i provided FROM EVERY GAME!! DID YOU NOT SEE THEM??? Where's your info to back up your "opinion" ????
    You actually didn't support your argument very well. You never showed how the Broncos compare to the rest of the league nor versus the team the Broncos were playing. You also didn't show how those penalties affected the outcome of the drives.

    You may have a valid argument, and all of us would like the penalties to decline as well, but you didn't support the argument very well. You said the poster should show stats to back up his opinion but I would think it should be your job, as the OP, to show that the Broncos are not in fact "middle of the pack".

    As I stated in a previous post as well, I believe it is the Oline coach who is responsible for coaching they guys about false starts and holding. The Oline coach is relatively inexperienced at coaching the Oline. Maybe you should focus more anger at him instead of McD.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 10-19-2010 at 07:44 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanSam View Post
    Forgive me for editing your quote, but I wanted to cut the fat to get to the beef of what you were saying here.

    Comparing Brandstater to Quinn? How many NFL games has Brandstater started and won? I think the comparison stops right there.

    Smith. Do you really want to compare him to Cox or Thomas? Really? Both are rookies and spanked Smith in the preseason, and that is what you clearly stated you should compare them at.

    Buck was tender but not hurt? Is that why he sat out a couple of games is because of tenderness? Never heard that term used in an injury report before.

    Lance Ball? Yup, he sure performed in the 4th quarter with the the defense that probably is sitting and watching the games from the couch and not the bench. Not a real good comparision here either.

    And you want to use preseason as a measure, yet when the players you mention didn't perform in the preseason, you cry foul?

    I surely am missing the logic here.
    Wow really?? And what is Quinn's career record?? Not good. How does comparison end there? Quinn has played longer.. Comparison should be who plays football better not how long they've played. And when judging 3rd string quarterbacks, cost should also be something to compare. He will never take a meaningful snap as a Bronco yet he's being paid almost as if he's a starter..

    With Buck, I'm saying he wasn't injured when Maroney came, he was coming off of an injury.. He sat out a few games due to injury but that game he didn't.

    And what planet were you on in the preseason??? Most of our preseason games Lance was the STARTER because of injuries. I don't think he played in a 4th quarter all preseason.. So I'm pretty sure most of his competition is still playing.

    Lastly, Thomas?????? The D lineman, or the receiver?? You must not think too fondly of them if you don't even know their names. Cox has been a huge surprise and definitely outplayed Alphonso. THOMPSON played well but as you pointed out, only in the 4th quarters.. I never said anything about comparing him to either of them. I mentioned Nate Jones... But in my opinion they should have all made the team and make a cut elsewhere... Its obvious now that we could have used a couple extra in the secondary.. And I never said preseason is the only thing to compare them by, but if there isn't any judging in the preseason then there's no point of playing it..
    Last edited by Kred; 10-19-2010 at 07:47 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    nice try but you gave me a link to team penalties. This whole thread, I thought it was obvious, was geared towards our offensive line penalties. That is what our problem is. Like i said my beef is with our offensive line's habitual penalties and our coaches inability to fix them.

    So you are saying that I didn't bring any facts to this arguement, yet you did?

    Would it be reasonable to assume that when using team stats that the offense and defense commited these penalties? And are they not part of the team?

    Would it not be reasonable to assume then, if the team were average in penalties, that the offense would not be average in penaltes?

    Without any hard evidence, we would have to assume that is the case.

    Can you provide such evidence that were are so much worse than most NFL teams as to disparage your coach in a public forum?

    You have come to this conversation with no substantiation of your own facts, yet devaluate mine?

    I see.

    Last edited by BroncoFanSam; 10-19-2010 at 07:48 PM. Reason: clarity
    It's all good fun!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    You actually didn't support your argument very well. You never showed how the Broncos compare to the rest of the league nor versus the team the Broncos were playing. You also didn't show how those penalties affected the outcome of the drives.

    You may have a valid argument, and all of us would like the penalties to decline as well, but you didn't support the argument very well. You said the poster should show stats to back up his opinion but I would think it should be your job, as the OP, to show that the Broncos are not in fact "middle of the pack".
    my objective wasnt to show they are not in the middle of the pack. My objective was to show the constant offensive line penalties that we constantly have all game every game. I think I showed that in my original post. i posted all the fouls on our offensive line for this year alone. And without having to do any further research I can bet my paycheck we committed more than every team we played this year. Agree?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanSam View Post
    So you are saying that I didn't bring any facts to this arguement, yet you did?

    Would it be reasonable to assume that when using team stats that the offense and defense commited these penalties? And are they not part of the team?

    You have come to this conversation with no substantiation of your own facts, yet devaluate mine?

    I see.

    what are you talking about dude? This whole thread has been about offensive line mistakes and now you want to throw in defensive penalties, special team penalties, 13 men on field penalties, face mask penalties, pass interference penalties? Lets stay on track yea???? Stay on subject please.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    my objective wasnt to show they are not in the middle of the pack. My objective was to show the constant offensive line penalties that we constantly have all game every game. I think I showed that in my original post. i posted all the fouls on our offensive line for this year alone. And without having to do any further research I can bet my paycheck we committed more than every team we played this year. Agree?
    No, I don't agree. You didn't show an increase from last year to this one nor an increase from Shanny to McD nor how the Broncos compare to the other teams they played nor how they compare to the rest of the league. You just listed all of the penalties without showing cause and effect.

    I would like the penalties to go down as well but your argument was weak. You still have time to do more research and substantiate your claim more fully though. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I just don't think you have proven your point yet. Some of those teams, like the Jets, have some of the best Olines in the league as well and have been playing together for some time now. The Jets, Titans, and ravens don't have some of the best run games in the league for no reason.

    I think you should also take into consideration that the Broncos have played Titans, Colts, ravens, and Jets which are 4 of the best Dline/front 7 in the league who are being matched against a young, inexperienced line in some individuals and as a unit. You showed this yourself in your original post. Against Jax and SEA, (weaker front 7 teams) they had 1 Oline penalty. I just looked at the NE/Balt game and NE had 4 Oline penalties which isn't much different than the Broncos.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 10-19-2010 at 08:12 PM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kred View Post
    Wow really?? And what is Quinn's career record?? Not good. How does comparison end there? Quinn has played longer.. Comparison should be who plays football better not how long they've played. And when judging 3rd string quarterbacks, cost should also be something to compare. He will never take a meaningful snap as a Bronco yet he's being paid almost as if he's a starter..

    With Buck, I'm saying he wasn't injured when Maroney came, he was coming off of an injury.. He sat out a few games due to injury but that game he didn't.

    And what planet were you on in the preseason??? Most of our preseason games Lance was the STARTER because of injuries. I don't think he played in a 4th quarter all preseason.. So I'm pretty sure most of his competition is still playing.

    Lastly, Thomas?????? The D lineman, or the receiver?? You must not think too fondly of them if you don't even know their names. Cox has been a huge surprise and definitely outplayed Alphonso. THOMPSON played well but as you pointed out, only in the 4th quarters.. I never said anything about comparing him to either of them. I mentioned Nate Jones... But in my opinion they should have all made the team and make a cut elsewhere... Its obvious now that we could have used a couple extra in the secondary.. And I never said preseason is the only thing to compare them by, but if there isn't any judging in the preseason then there's no point of playing it..
    That is the point in fact.

    Brandstater showed nothing special in preseason.

    Smith looked like a statue in preseason.

    THOMPSON and Cox both outplayed Smith in preseason.

    And if Buck was injured, or coming off an injury, and if McD chose to get Marohney to do the carries, who the heck am I supposed to put my faith in?

    You? Quite frankly, I don't think you have the credentials.

    McD? I think he is a better judge of football talent and readiness than you.

    Not trying to be antagonistic, just keepin it real here.
    It's all good fun!

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    last years line played together for 2 years and one whole year with mcdaniels yet the problem was the same, but the lack of discipline and constant penalties weren't here before mcdaniels. Pick and choose the exuses if it makes you sleep better at night.
    we had a new scheme. The players had to learn new ways of doing things. This can cause false starts due to confusion. The oline this year has new faces and 2 starting rookies. I'm not a big fan of mcdaniels because I've been spoiled by shanahans running system. I will give this unit one full season before I start jumping on mcd. I sure mcd is "fixing" it beadles was moved and imo it was a good idea.

    as far as the penalties some of the penalties were good. I'd rather take a hold as opposed to orton getting smashed and rushing his passes for the rest of the game. False starts suck but we have to deal with the flags until our unit gets on the same page and gels together. It will happen my friend but time will tell and at this moment it's still too early.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    what are you talking about dude? This whole thread has been about offensive line mistakes and now you want to throw in defensive penalties, special team penalties, 13 men on field penalties, face mask penalties, pass interference penalties? Lets stay on track yea???? Stay on subject please.
    I like the way you edited my quote.

    Here is my complete quotation.

    So you are saying that I didn't bring any facts to this arguement, yet you did?

    Would it be reasonable to assume that when using team stats that the offense and defense commited these penalties? And are they not part of the team?

    Would it not be reasonable to assume then, if the team were average in penalties, that the offense would not be average in penaltes?

    Without any hard evidence, we would have to assume that is the case.

    Can you provide such evidence that were are so much worse than most NFL teams as to disparage your coach in a public forum?

    You have come to this conversation with no substantiation of your own facts, yet devaluate mine?

    I see.



    Maybe you can still answer the questions?

    I doubt it though.

    It's all good fun!

  10. #100
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    Me thinks this thread is broken.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinginhorseman View Post
    we had a new scheme. The players had to learn new ways of doing things. This can cause false starts due to confusion. The oline this year has new faces and 2 starting rookies. I'm not a big fan of mcdaniels because I've been spoiled by shanahans running system. I will give this unit one full season before I start jumping on mcd. I sure mcd is "fixing" it beadles was moved and imo it was a good idea.

    as far as the penalties some of the penalties were good. I'd rather take a hold as opposed to orton getting smashed and rushing his passes for the rest of the game. False starts suck but we have to deal with the flags until our unit gets on the same page and gels together. It will happen my friend but time will tell and at this moment it's still too early.
    That sound like that "cohesion" thingy I was talking about!

    It's all good fun!

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanSam View Post
    OK dude, you spout the mouth, so let's see you back it up with some logic.

    Right now, with who is available through trades and FA, who would you have replace them?

    Don't spout drivel or excuses, give some names.

    Be real here!
    I will be waiting for a well thought out and reasoned response.

    nobody. this season is a bust already so we ride it out. McDaniels is a FAILURE. Immediately following the season, I fire him, and I let him read about it on the internet (kinda the way Carl Peterson did Gunther Cunningham).

    next year I throw the bus at getting Cowher, Schottenheimer, or Gruden. I immediately trade Orton for whatever I can get for the chump. I dangle Tebow as trade bait in the draft, or trade him for a Frank Gore, or Maurice Jones-Drew.

    I then draft a Top QB Locker or Andrew Luck in the draft (i move up if I have to), then focus on the defense (secondary DB and FS/SS) and get a bruiser of a running back in one of the later rounds. I bring in Brian Billick as my Offensive coordinator. I bring in Gunther Cunningham as the Def-Coord. I retain the special teams coaching staff, and I reinstate the zone blocking scheme.

    I work the FA market and UFA for O-Line help, and start the rebuilding process from the ground up. the following year I go after DL and LB help in the draft. theoretically should make the playoffs in year 2, for certain in year 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victory View Post
    So you'd rather be out of a second round pick, while starting Brady Quinn with no backup, have maroney and buckhalter be our lead backs, and have to promote someone in house to head coach...?

    I'm not one to question a fan's loyalty, but after reading your last post...are you really even a bronco fan.?
    yes...anything would be better than the retarded ringmaster running the 3 ring circus we have now.

    go ahead and question my loyalty...i'm just a realist that's sick of medicrity, sick of McDaniels charade, he acts like he knows what he's doing, but in reality, he doesn't know the hole in his forthright point of contact from a hole in the ground.

  13. #103
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    I guess the OP is going to be very disappointed, because Josh McDaniels is not going anywhere anytime soon

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety View Post
    nobody. this season is a bust already so we ride it out. McDaniels is a FAILURE. Immediately following the season, I fire him, and I let him read about it on the internet (kinda the way Carl Peterson did Gunther Cunningham).

    next year I throw the bus at getting Cowher, Schottenheimer, or Gruden. I immediately trade Orton for whatever I can get for the chump. I dangle Tebow as trade bait in the draft, or trade him for a Frank Gore, or Maurice Jones-Drew.

    I then draft a Top QB Locker or Andrew Luck in the draft (i move up if I have to), then focus on the defense (secondary DB and FS/SS) and get a bruiser of a running back in one of the later rounds. I bring in Brian Billick as my Offensive coordinator. I bring in Gunther Cunningham as the Def-Coord. I retain the special teams coaching staff, and I reinstate the zone blocking scheme.

    I work the FA market and UFA for O-Line help, and start the rebuilding process from the ground up. the following year I go after DL and LB help in the draft. theoretically should make the playoffs in year 2, for certain in year 3..
    If you want two to three years in your plan, don't you think it would be reasonable to give McD his 2-3 years as well?

    Let's be reasonable here.
    Last edited by BroncoFanSam; 10-19-2010 at 08:35 PM. Reason: clarity
    It's all good fun!

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shananagan View Post
    I have had it! This guy always blames his players and says that they are not physical enough and so on and so on. They responded today. Yes the Jets are a good team and yes Denver fans can say that we played better this week than last. But the offensive play calling is awful. What happens when Denver is up 17-10 and the Broncs get an interception? Absolutely nothing, thats what. Broncos can't run the ball but we did today and it still resulted in a loss. On a 2nd and 1 (because of a 9 yard 1rst down run) what does Josh call. An inside handoff which results in a 3 yard loss. Go back to New England Josh and take Maroney and Paxton with you. So much for Orange Sunday.
    Your fired.

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