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  1. #106
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    Speaking of which. What ever happened to Ashley Lelie?

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel View Post
    Speaking of which. What ever happened to Ashley Lelie?
    Traded to the Falcons in 2006, signed with the 49ers in 2007, singed with the Raiders in 2008, singed with the Chiefs in 2009, however was released by the Chiefs before the season begun and has been out of football since.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK's#1BroncoFan View Post
    Write this down "This is another mistake for the Broncos, Moss couldve been a force if we played him more this year.... He will be a force for another team.

  4. #109
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    I am sure Moss had the talent. You get a lump sum of money though certain people get lazy.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK's#1BroncoFan View Post
    This guy forgot Elvis Dumervil is still a Bronco. smh

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpbronco View Post
    He might have been the coach for the 2 super bowl teams but he sure didnt build those teams. Thats what everyone is criticing is that shannahan did not draft very well. He was a great coach for us but you cant argue he wasnt the that good at GM
    He didn't build those teams?

    Here are the 29 players Shanahan signed/traded for/drafted who started 1 or more games in the Super Bowl Championship seasons.

    John Mobley - drafted in 1996 (31 starts)
    Tyrone Braxton - signed in free agent in 1995 and moved to safty (22 starts)
    Bill Romanowski - signed 1996 (32 starts)
    Darrien Gordon - signed 1997 (32 starts)
    Alfred Williams - signed 1996 (16 starts)
    Neil Smith - signed 1997 (27 starts)
    Keith Traylor - signed 1997 (30 starts)
    Trevor Pryce - drafted 1997 (18 starts)
    Tim McKyer - signed 1997 (1 start)
    Mike Lodish - signed 1995 (1 start)
    Michael Dean Perry - signed 1995 (9 starts)
    Glenn Cadrez - signed 1995 (15 starts)
    Terrell Davis - drafted 1995 (31 starts)
    Howard Griffith - signed 1997 (26 starts)
    Ed McCaffrey - signed 1995 (30 starts)
    Willie Green - Signed 1997 (1 start)
    Tony E. Jones - Traded 1997 (32 starts)
    Mark Schlereth - signed 1995 (27 starts)
    David Diaz-Infante - signed 1997 (7 starts)
    Maa Tanuvasa - signed 1995 (21 starts)
    Vaugn Hebron - signed 1996 (1 start)
    Dedrick Dodge - signed 1997 (1 start)
    Bubby Brister - signed 1997 (4 starts)
    Detron Smith - drafted 1996 (2 starts)
    Eric Brown - drafted 1998 (10 starts)
    Seth Joyner - signed 1998 (1 start)
    Darrius Johnson - drafted 1996 (2 starts)
    Harry Swayne - signed 1997 (16 starts)
    Dan Neil - drafted 1997 (16 starts)

    That is 462 starts in 2 years. 66% of the starts.

    There are a handful of players who did not even start a game before Shanahan got a hold of them and I am not even counting those guys.

    How about I start listing the role players who did not actually start but played??

    Do not forget he brought in coaches like Alex Gibbs who taught Zimmerman and Nalen who to zone block. Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner.

    The concept that Shanahan did not build a championship team is rediculous and only spread by people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    The following people started games for the Broncos in 1994 and were out of the NFL by the start of the 1997 season. These are not practice squad players or guys signed from the Mall mid season like Xander's list...these are players who were on the roster intended to play a key role on the team.

    Hugh Millen
    Reggie Rivers
    Leonard Russell
    Derrick Clark
    Rod Bernstine
    Jeff Campbell
    Ben Smith
    Karl Mecklenburg
    Simon Fletcher
    Dennis Smith
    Darryl Hall
    Jerry Evans
    Jon Melander
    Russ Freeman

    Some of these players were contributors in their time. Big name players....but they retired and left big holes to fill or in the case of Dennis Smith was released and could not find a team to sign him.

    Another 3 were out of the NFL by end of 1997. Another 4 were out by 1998. By the time Shanahan won his 2nd Super Bowl 21 starting players from the 1994 Denver Bronco team were out of the NFL.

    Trust me, this number gets ALLOT bigger if I start looking at non-starters or if I do the hard work to look up practice squad players like the number Xanders put out...which btw last I checked "Xander's 32" is down to 18 players who were on the roster OR practice squad of our 2008 team but not in the NFL right now. This number will go down even further by week 17 as 2 more players have been on teams during the season but were released.

    People around here really need to start thinking for themselves around here. So many sheep it is scary.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  7. #112
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    Finally the bust is gone I said it the day we traded him. So happy Moss is

    gone he sucked....

  8. #113
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    this is completely scewed anti shanny, that is all there is to it.

    you could probably name a few first round picks that would still be with the team
    jay cutler
    tony sheffler

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillez View Post
    Finally the bust is gone I said it the day we traded him. So happy Moss is

    gone he sucked....
    I honestly don't know how he stuck around as long as he did.


    2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 Adopted Bronco: Chris Harris Jr.

  10. #115
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    He didn't build those teams?

    Here are the 29 players Shanahan signed/traded for/drafted who started 1 or more games in the Super Bowl Championship seasons.

    John Mobley - drafted in 1996 (31 starts)
    Tyrone Braxton - signed in free agent in 1995 and moved to safty (22 starts)
    Bill Romanowski - signed 1996 (32 starts)
    Darrien Gordon - signed 1997 (32 starts)
    Alfred Williams - signed 1996 (16 starts)
    Neil Smith - signed 1997 (27 starts)
    Keith Traylor - signed 1997 (30 starts)
    Trevor Pryce - drafted 1997 (18 starts)
    Tim McKyer - signed 1997 (1 start)
    Mike Lodish - signed 1995 (1 start)
    Michael Dean Perry - signed 1995 (9 starts)
    Glenn Cadrez - signed 1995 (15 starts)
    Terrell Davis - drafted 1995 (31 starts)
    Howard Griffith - signed 1997 (26 starts)
    Ed McCaffrey - signed 1995 (30 starts)
    Willie Green - Signed 1997 (1 start)
    Tony E. Jones - Traded 1997 (32 starts)
    Mark Schlereth - signed 1995 (27 starts)
    David Diaz-Infante - signed 1997 (7 starts)
    Maa Tanuvasa - signed 1995 (21 starts)
    Vaugn Hebron - signed 1996 (1 start)
    Dedrick Dodge - signed 1997 (1 start)
    Bubby Brister - signed 1997 (4 starts)
    Detron Smith - drafted 1996 (2 starts)
    Eric Brown - drafted 1998 (10 starts)
    Seth Joyner - signed 1998 (1 start)
    Darrius Johnson - drafted 1996 (2 starts)
    Harry Swayne - signed 1997 (16 starts)
    Dan Neil - drafted 1997 (16 starts)

    That is 462 starts in 2 years. 66% of the starts.

    There are a handful of players who did not even start a game before Shanahan got a hold of them and I am not even counting those guys.

    How about I start listing the role players who did not actually start but played??

    Do not forget he brought in coaches like Alex Gibbs who taught Zimmerman and Nalen who to zone block. Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner.

    The concept that Shanahan did not build a championship team is rediculous and only spread by people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    T
    Trust me, this number gets ALLOT bigger if I start looking at non-starters or if I do the hard work to look up practice squad players like the number Xanders put out...which btw last I checked "Xander's 32" is down to 18 players who were on the roster OR practice squad of our 2008 team but not in the NFL right now. This number will go down even further by week 17 as 2 more players have been on teams during the season but were released.

    People around here really need to start thinking for themselves around here. So many sheep it is scary.
    great research.. but how many after 97? lasted more than 3 years for that matter 2 yrs before getting cut.

    The article talked about how many signed a second contract with DEN.

    If you can't draft them and keep them longer than 2 years then it is a perpetual turnstile that you never get ahead of.


    here is a list of every DAFT choice mikey made go back for your self and weep at all the losers he brought into town. and pick out all of the first day picks you build your team with and highlight the ones that signed a second contract.. then look and see just how much they contributed.

    I have on numerous times did so and that was why I called for his firing as a GM as far back as about 04.

    As far as Mason is concerned he was on staff and could not talk about it, Frankly I will believe anything he says before listening to a bunch of Mikeys biggest fans.

    I believed everything he said up through about 04 when I figured out what he was doing to this team with his really lousy personnel decisions. I always asked if he would have had a real GM choosing players just how many more Lombardi trophies we would have won.

    Code:
    2008 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	12 	Ryan Clady 	T 	Boise State
    2 	42 	Eddie Royal 	WR 	Virginia Tech
    4 	108 	Kory Lichtensteiger 	C 	Bowling Green State
    4 	119 	Jack Williams 	CB 	Kent State
    5 	139 	Ryan Torain 	RB 	Arizona State
    5 	148 	Carlton Powell 	DT 	Virginia Tech
    6 	183 	Spencer Larsen 	FB 	Arizona
    7 	220 	Josh Barrett 	DB 	Arizona State
    7 	227 	Peyton Hillis 	RB 	Arkansas
    2007 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	17 	Jarvis Moss 	DE 	Florida
    2 	56 	Tim Crowder 	DE 	Texas
    3 	70 	Ryan Harris 	OT 	Notre Dame
    4 	121 	Marcus Thomas 	DT 	Florida
    2006 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	11 	Jay Cutler 	QB 	Vanderbilt
    2 	61 	Tony Scheffler 	TE 	Western Michigan
    4 	119 	Brandon Marshall 	WR 	Central Florida
    4 	126 	Elvis Dumervil 	DE 	Louisville
    4 	130 	Domenik Hixon 	WR 	Akron
    5 	161 	Chris Kuper 	G 	North Dakota
    6 	198 	Greg Eslinger 	C 	Minnesota
    2005 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    2 	56 	Darrent Williams 	CB 	Oklahoma State
    3 	76 	Karl Paymah 	DB 	Washington State
    3 	97 	Domonique Foxworth 	CB 	Maryland
    3 	101 	Maurice Clarett 	-- 	Ohio State
    6 	200 	Chris Myers 	G 	Miami (Fla.)
    7 	239 	Paul Ernster 	K 	Northern Arizona
    2004 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	17 	D.J. Williams 	OLB 	Miami (Fla.)
    2 	41 	Tatum Bell 	RB 	Oklahoma State
    2 	54 	Darius Watts 	WR 	Marshall
    3 	85 	Jeremy LeSueur 	CB 	Michigan
    5 	152 	Jeff Shoate 	CB 	San Diego State
    6 	171 	Triandos Luke 	WR 	Alabama
    6 	190 	Josh Sewell 	-- 	Nebraska
    7 	225 	Matt Mauck 	QB 	Louisiana State
    7 	247 	Brandon Miree 	RB 	Pittsburgh
    7 	250 	Bradlee Van Pelt 	QB 	Colorado State
    2003 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	20 	George Foster 	T 	Georgia
    2 	51 	Terry Pierce 	LB 	Kansas State
    4 	108 	Quentin Griffin 	RB 	Oklahoma
    4 	114 	Nick Eason 	DT 	Clemson
    4 	128 	Bryant McNeal 	DE 	Clemson
    5 	157 	Ben Claxton 	C 	Mississippi
    5 	158 	Adrian Madise 	WR 	Texas Christian
    6 	194 	Aaron Hunt 	-- 	Texas Tech
    7 	227 	Clint Mitchell 	DE 	Florida
    7 	235 	Ahmaad Galloway 	RB 	Alabama
    2002 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	19 	Ashley Lelie 	WR 	Hawaii
    2 	51 	Clinton Portis 	RB 	Miami (Fla.)
    3 	96 	Dorsett Davis 	DT 	Mississippi State
    4 	131 	Sam Brandon 	DB 	Nevada-Las Vegas
    5 	144 	Herb Haygood 	WR 	Michigan State
    6 	191 	Jeb Putzier 	TE 	Boise State
    7 	228 	Chris Young 	DB 	Georgia Tech
    7 	231 	Monsanto Pope 	DT 	Virginia
    2001 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	24 	Willie Middlebrooks 	CB 	Minnesota
    2 	51 	Paul Toviessi 	DE 	Marshall
    3 	87 	Reggie Hayward 	DE 	Iowa State
    4 	113 	Ben Hamilton 	C 	Minnesota
    4 	120 	Nick Harris 	P 	California
    6 	190 	Kevin Kasper 	WR 	Iowa
    2000 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	15 	Deltha O'Neal 	CB 	California
    2 	40 	Ian Gold 	LB 	Michigan
    2 	45 	Kenoy Kennedy 	SAF 	Arkansas
    3 	70 	Chris Cole 	WR 	Texas A&M
    4 	101 	Jerry Johnson 	DT 	Florida State
    4 	112 	Cooper Carlisle 	G 	Florida
    5 	154 	Muneer Moore 	WR 	Richmond
    6 	189 	Mike Anderson 	RB 	Utah
    7 	214 	Jarious Jackson 	QB 	Notre Dame
    7 	246 	Leroy Fields 	-- 	Jackson State
    1999 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	31 	Al Wilson 	MLB 	Tennessee
    2 	58 	Montae Reagor 	DE 	Texas Tech
    2 	61 	Lennie Friedman 	C 	Duke
    3 	67 	Chris Watson 	CB 	Eastern Illinois
    3 	93 	Travis McGriff 	WR 	Florida
    4 	127 	Olandis Gary 	RB 	Georgia
    5 	158 	David Bowens 	LB 	Western Illinois
    5 	167 	Darwin Brown 	DB 	Texas Tech
    6 	179 	Desmond Clark 	TE 	Wake Forest
    6 	204 	Chad Plummer 	WR 	Cincinnati
    7 	218 	Billy Miller 	WR 	USC
    7 	238 	Justin Swift 	TE 	Kansas State
    1998 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	30 	Marcus Nash 	WR 	Tennessee
    2 	61 	Eric Brown 	SS 	Mississippi State
    3 	91 	Brian Griese 	QB 	Michigan
    4 	122 	Curtis Alexander 	-- 	Alabama
    5 	153 	Chris Howard 	RB 	Michigan
    7 	200 	Trey Teague 	T 	Tennessee
    7 	219 	Nate Wayne 	LB 	Mississippi
    1997 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	28 	Trevor Pryce 	DT 	Clemson
    3 	67 	Dan Neil 	G 	Texas
    4 	124 	Cory Gilliard 	DB 	Ball State
    1996 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    1 	15 	John Mobley 	OLB 	Kutztown
    2 	44 	Tory James 	DB 	Louisiana State
    3 	65 	Detron Smith 	RB 	Texas A&M
    3 	78 	Mark Campbell 	DT 	Florida
    4 	100 	Jeff Lewis 	QB 	Northern Arizona
    4 	122 	Darrius Johnson 	DB 	Oklahoma
    5 	159 	Patrick Jeffers 	WR 	Virginia
    6 	181 	Tony Veland 	DB 	Nebraska
    7 	213 	Leslie Ratliffe 	-- 	Tennessee
    7 	226 	Chris Banks 	G 	Kansas
    7 	235 	L.T. Levine 	-- 	Kansas
    7 	236 	Brian Gragert 	-- 	Wyoming
    1995 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    4 	121 	Jamie Brown 	T 	Florida A&M
    4 	124 	Ken Brown 	LB 	Virginia Tech
    5 	146 	Phil Yeboah-Kodie 	LB 	Penn State
    6 	182 	Fritz Fequiere 	-- 	Iowa
    6 	196 	Terrell Davis 	RB 	Georgia
    7 	218 	Steve Russ 	LB 	Air Force
    7 	222 	Byron Chamberlain 	WR 	Wayne State (Neb.)
    1994 - Denver Broncos
    Rd 	Sel # 	Player 	Position 	School
    2 	51 	Allen Aldridge 	LB 	Houston
    4 	123 	Randy Fuller 	CB 	Tennessee State
    7 	210 	Keith Burns 	LB 	Oklahoma State
    7 	212 	Butler By'Not'e 	CB 	Ohio State
    7 	218 	Tom Nalen 	C 	Boston College
    Believe it or not, I couldn't care less I have seen it and studied it and I KNOW what the facts are. Make excuses all you want but mikey had a free hand in players decisions for 14 years and screwed the pooch for most of it.

    in the end when you really look at it with an abject perspective you will see without his HOF players, Gibbs and decent DCs he was little above average at best.

    A great offensive mind no doubt but his EGO got him canned in the end for putting out a middling product.

    As for using the current regimes players to argue your point the minute you do that YOU have lost the discussion. BECAUSE it is not about Josh and his choices. As the author pointed out it was all about mikey and his failures.

    Carry on, that is all.

  11. #116
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    Mar 2004
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    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel View Post
    Speaking of which. What ever happened to Ashley Lelie?
    39 receptions in 3 years 1 each with OAK,SFO,ATL 19 starts, about 750 yards and 3 count them 3 TD's.

    http://www.nfl.com/players/ashleylel...e?id=LEL296636

    carry on,

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    12,971
    Looking our draft and making judgements on it means nothing unless people also look at other teams drafts.

    It is like looking at one players stats and saying they are great/bad without comparing them against other players. Maybe your right, maybe your wrong...but you will never know unless you compare that player against other players.

    Mike Williams of TB looks like an amazing good WR with 40 catches for 627 yards and 5 TDs. Looking at nothing else you may even think he is the best WR in the NFL. Deon Grant only has 3 ints so far. One may think that is not that great but then you compare against other DBs and realize only 9 players have more.

    Draft numbers mean nothing unless they are compared to multiple other teams. Min 5 or 6 I would say.
    Win lose or tie Bronco fan til I die

  13. #118
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    Dec 2009
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    246
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    this is completely scewed anti shanny, that is all there is to it.

    you could probably name a few first round picks that would still be with the team
    jay cutler
    tony sheffler
    Scheffler I could see staying. But I highly doubt Cutler would still be here if Shanny stayed.

    He got rid of a young Brian Griese who had better numbers in Denver than Jay Cutler. Shanny went through qbs like I go through tp.

  14. #119
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    Mar 2004
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    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Looking our draft and making judgements on it means nothing unless people also look at other teams drafts.

    It is like looking at one players stats and saying they are great/bad without comparing them against other players. Maybe your right, maybe your wrong...but you will never know unless you compare that player against other players.

    Mike Williams of TB looks like an amazing good WR with 40 catches for 627 yards and 5 TDs. Looking at nothing else you may even think he is the best WR in the NFL. Deon Grant only has 3 ints so far. One may think that is not that great but then you compare against other DBs and realize only 9 players have more.

    Draft numbers mean nothing unless they are compared to multiple other teams. Min 5 or 6 I would say.
    When I start following another team then I will worry about their drafts, FA etc. sometimes mikeys apologists just can't see the forest for the trees. it is not any simpler than that.

    If you wish to waste your time defending the un-defendable have at it, only a few really care anymore they have moved on.

    The author is a footballer insider that worked with the team in their headquarters, he knows what he is speaking about. He has worked for other teams he knows stuff that 99.8% of this fan base have no clue about.

    After he left DEN for TEN IIRC, I talked with him at length about the team and mikey in particular HE refused to spread any dirt around. I'll bet he has plenty to spread.

    So when I see a great piece like this telling it like it is. I know there is no axe to grind, just plain and simple facts of life.

    Some of us saw it earlier than most of the rest of the fans, ONLY because we knew what to look for.

    While everyone on this forum was telling me that if we took the GM duties away from mikey he would walk and be hired in a heart beat.

    Well, folks we all KNOW that did not happen, no one would touch him that first year. And we also KNOW that he took a job with a decent GM already place.

    Do not get me wrong I thought mike was a hell of a OC, could scheme with the best of them, but he got worn down, lazy whatever and did not have the oomph he did when he first came to town. It was time for him to go.

    LET ME add that I did a lot of what ifs on mikeys failed DAFT choice and the list is long a glorious of the players we could have had instead of his busts. With out looking IIRC we could have had Javon Walker upfront instead of ashley. Might have been the guy and could have had him long term instead of throwing a pick away and then having IIRC give GB a #2 a couple of years later.

    If you want to see what I did years ago be my guest search it up. I know what a loser mikey was in making player choices.


    Last edited by JRWIZ; 11-19-2010 at 10:37 AM. Reason: edit in red.

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