Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 196
  1. #181
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,663
    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Dennis Allen coached at Tulsa University when they ran the 3-3-5.

    After Dennis Allen came to the New Orleans Saints they also ran the 3-3-5 which is also the 3-5-3. Could that mean Gregg Williams got the idea from Allen?

    Go back and watch Super Bowl XLIV. The Saints were in the 3-3-5 a lot and most of the second half. If you're worried about 3-3-5 against the run, go back and look at the 2010 Poinsettia Bowl. Rocky Long's 3-3-5 did very well against Navy's all-out Flexbone/Wing-T Option attack.

    Go back and watch the 2010-11 NFL Playoffs. The Packers, Steelers and Jets ran a lot of split-front 4-2-5 with backers (including Clay Matthews) as standup DEs. In a recent interview, Dennis Allen mentioned 4-3, 3-4 and 4-4 which is also the 4-2-5.

    Often when the Steelers are in an odd-front with a NT and two 5 techs, their OLB are on the LOS next to the DEs. That's actually not a 3-4. It's the old Oklahoma 50 D (5-2).

    There are plenty of ways to use Elvis Dumervil's talents. I'd like to see him as: a standup DE in a 4-2-5; an OLB in a 4-4/Split-six; as a standup DE in a 50 D; and, as an OLB in a 3-5-3/3-3-5. Base 4-3 and 3-4 are only two possibilities. Dennis Allen is a smart, young coach who has seen a lot of different Ds. He knows him some ball. Give him a chance.

    I'd love to see the Broncos' D switch between 3-5-3/3-3-5 and 4-4/4-2-5. Elvis could play a big part in all of those.
    What makes you think we will be able to run any or all of these schemes when we dont have the personel to run one scheme succesfully. Also no one really knows what we will do defense.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,663
    Quote Originally Posted by crash123go View Post
    How is the 4-4 the 4-2-5? Lol that makes no sense the 4-2-5 is basically the 3-4 you just take out a lineman and put in a DB which is a nickle formation of the 3-4 the 4-4 which I've never heard or scene might be like the 46 defense and those are no where near close to each other
    Yeh isnt a 4-2-5 just a 4-3 nickel package and the same with a 3-3-5. Isnt that just a form of the nickel package in 3-4.

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Realism.
    Posts
    2,362
    DOOM will be here. John Fox is smarter than Josh McFailure

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Momentum View Post
    DOOM will be here. John Fox is smarter than Josh McFailure
    Exactly..................

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    598

    real quick

    For all the naysaying going on about Elvis and the 4-3 transition let me state the facts. First Elvis has played more seasons (3) in the 4-3 as opposed to 1 healthy season in the 3-4. Second, He has had roughly 26 sacks give or take a few(I am shooting from the hip on the total but I know it is in the immediate ballpark) in those 3 seasons playing traditional DE in the 4-3. I understand its not the 17 sacks he had in his first and only season as a 3-4 joker LB, but averaging almost 10 per season in the 4-3 isnt exactly awful either. Not to mention he also had 12.5(I may be off on the half sack but I know the whole number is 12, which would be 1 less sack than all world pass rusher Clay Matthews III had this season. So lets just calm down on the "demise of Elvis Dumervil" and let the chips(QBs) fall where they may. Doom will be just fine transitioning back the 4-3 DE position, and dont think for a second that John Fox and his defensive mind does'nt have some creative ideas as to what to do with the dynamic elvis dumervil.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    6,071
    Quote Originally Posted by SmilingJack View Post
    Bored in this off-season?
    Yes, the good ole offseason and all the silly threads that come with it.


    @BlueNOrangeFTW

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Las Manzanitas, NM
    Posts
    30,913

    Dear crash123go and johnlimburg

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Yeh isnt a 4-2-5 just a 4-3 nickel package and the same with a 3-3-5. Isnt that just a form of the nickel package in 3-4.
    Defenses & Defensive Alignments

    The 4-4 is a split six, a split-front D. Usually it has four down linemen, four backers, two corners and a Free Safety. I coached this D for thirteen years. The two OLBs can play like backers or Safeties meaning you can invert coverages among other things. So, you can show 4-4, but after the snap be playing with five DBs in coverage.

    Crash, the 4-2-5 is not a 3-4 because a 3-4 is an odd-front and the 4-2-5 is a split/even front. Two differnt Ds, bro.

    4-4/Split-Six is not 46 Bear because the 46 uses T-N-T with DE weak. It's actually not a Spilt-Front because the C and Guards are covered.

    3-3-5 is not 3-4 Nickel. Nickel is a special for passing downs. 3-3-5 is a base, every down D. If you don't believe me, go to a coaching clinic with Rocky Long. He'll chalk it up for you.

    Also, 4-2-5 is not 4-3 nickel. It's a completely different D. The backer reads are different. Watch Gary Patterson's D at TCU (Rose Bowl). That's a 4-2-5, and it is a base/every down D, too.

    3-3-5/3-5-3 and 4-2-5/4-4 Split-Six are five DB defenses.

    Green Bay ran the 4-2-5 during most of Super Bowl XLV with two 3 techs, two Standup DEs, two backers, two corners and three Safeties. Go back and watch it.
    Last edited by samparnell; 02-15-2011 at 02:57 PM.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville Florida
    Posts
    11,835
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    First of all, I wouldn't want Freeney to start a Dline around either. DOOM may have been the best Dlineman on the team but hen....that's not saying much. I agree that DOOM isn't going anywhere but I also think his starting position will be on the line. A DE who can play the run as well as rush the passer will supplant him one day in the not too distant future. That does depend on Ayers stepping up as well.

    I believe a prototype DE will be taken early in this upcoming draft and will replace either DOOM or Ayers. If it's DOOM, I'm all for that, bringing him in fresh in a rotation with the sole purpose of getting to the QB. He would provide a change of pace for the OT who would not be used to him during the game and he would have fresh legs. He think he could equal his earlier stats playing as rotational player and provide a bigger impact on passing downs.

    So far I think Bowers is a good choice for the spot and I think a 3-man rotation of Bowers, DOOM, and Ayers could be very effective.

    Don't get me wrong. I totally understand people's opinion about DOOM. As a matter of fact, I was one who didn't think DOOM should've got $60mill. I thought a 5yr $40 mill contract was good for DOOM, but whats done is done.

    My point is DOOM is a $60 million dollar man, so IMO, there is absolutely no way DOOM won't be an every down lineman. I know the details of the defense is still being discussed, but IMO you would have to run a hybrid defense. DOOM needs to have the freedom to put his hand in the ground and stand up.

    What I find funny is that people want us to stay in the 34 because DOOM is a liability in run defense, but MUG posted some stats that proved DOOM was better against the run in the 43 then he was in the 34.

    Using DOOM as a 3rd down pass rush specialist is fine if he was making about $20 mill, but when he's making $60 mill, it's a no brainer to me that DOOM will be on the field a hell of alot more then just 3rd downs.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Las Manzanitas, NM
    Posts
    30,913

    The Broncos ...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    What makes you think we will be able to run any or all of these schemes when we dont have the personel to run one scheme succesfully. Also no one really knows what we will do defense.
    ... will use more than one defensive alignment because that's the system from which Dennis Allen comes (i.e., New Orleans Saints' 4-3/3-3-5).

    I saw the Broncos line up a few times in the same 4-2-5 the Packers, Steelers and Jets used in 2010, so it has already happened.

    Using more than one alignment is the current NFL trend. Teams switch between an odd-front (e.g., 3-4 or 3-3-5) and a split-front (e.g., 4-3 or 4-2-5).

    In a recent interview, Allen mentioned the 4-4, which is essentially the same as a 4-2-5.
    Last edited by samparnell; 02-15-2011 at 02:58 PM.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    DENVER
    Posts
    7,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Momentum View Post
    DOOM will be here. John Fox is smarter than Josh McFailure
    I dunno if that's relatable at all considering Dumervil got his 6 year contract extension under McDaniels' regime.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,893
    There are some serious homers on this board.

    OLB in the 3-4 is a hell of a lot different than DE in the 4-3.

    It doesn't matter if some of his sacks came with his hand on the ground in '09, it's not the same. When you are a linebacker going to the line only a few times each game, it's usually in a 2nd/3rd and long situation with the quarterback in the shotgun. In those situations Doom can throw off the o-line because he serves as a change of pace from what they see most of the game.

    When Dumervil plays the whole game at defensive end, offensive linemen can prepare and adapt to him being in the 3-point stance. More importantly, linebackers play in space and react. Linemen on the other hand are fighting/hitting each other EVERY down; they are the first line of defense. Those of us who have played in the front seven should know you get worn down on the line. We saw that happen to Dumervil time and time again. With his limited size and dependence on speed, as soon as he becomes tired he is a non-factor. This is a major reason why Doom's sack total took a hit in 2008. Add this to his inaptitude against the run and we are bound to get burned with him as a starting defensive end.

    People were calling for him to be replaced at the end of 2008. Then he has a good year at OLB (a completely different position) and suddenly it'll translate back to the d-line? BS.
    Last edited by Brohemoth; 02-15-2011 at 12:01 PM.

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Arvada, CO
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by Brohemoth View Post
    There are some serious homers on this board.

    OLB in the 3-4 is a hell of a lot different than DE in the 4-3.

    It doesn't matter if some of his sacks came with his hand on the ground in '09, it's not the same. When you are a linebacker going to the line only a few times each game, it's usually in a 2nd/3rd and long situation with the quarterback in the shotgun. In those situations Doom can throw off the o-line because he serves as a change of pace from what they see most of the game.

    When Dumervil plays the whole game at defensive end, offensive linemen can prepare and adapt to him being in the 3-point stance. More importantly, linebackers play in space and react. Linemen on the other hand are fighting/hitting each other EVERY down; they are the first line of defense. Those of us who have played in the front seven should know you get worn down on the line. We saw that happen to Dumervil time and time again. With his limited size and dependence on speed, as soon as he becomes tired he is a non-factor. This is a major reason why Doom's sack total took a hit in 2008. Add this to his inaptitude against the run and we are bound to get burned with him as a starting defensive end.

    People were calling for him to be replaced at the end of 2008. Then he has a good year at OLB (a completely different position) and suddenly it'll translate back to the d-line? BS.
    Who are these people?

    I honestly believe, based on how things are in this league now, that we will run a straight up 4-3 defense. This isn't the old days anymore and these aren't your grandpa's Broncos. So, I truly believe that we will have Doom in multiple positions, with his hand in the dirt and standing. IMHO.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,122
    Quote Originally Posted by JayJack View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I totally understand people's opinion about DOOM. As a matter of fact, I was one who didn't think DOOM should've got $60mill. I thought a 5yr $40 mill contract was good for DOOM, but whats done is done.

    My point is DOOM is a $60 million dollar man, so IMO, there is absolutely no way DOOM won't be an every down lineman. I know the details of the defense is still being discussed, but IMO you would have to run a hybrid defense. DOOM needs to have the freedom to put his hand in the ground and stand up.

    What I find funny is that people want us to stay in the 34 because DOOM is a liability in run defense, but MUG posted some stats that proved DOOM was better against the run in the 43 then he was in the 34.

    Using DOOM as a 3rd down pass rush specialist is fine if he was making about $20 mill, but when he's making $60 mill, it's a no brainer to me that DOOM will be on the field a hell of alot more then just 3rd downs.
    If money determined who would play or how much Jarvis Moss would have started every game. The best players will play, no matter how big their salary is. I think he should be on the field more than just 3rd downs, he should also be out there for packages that suit him such as 3-4 alignment or similar type plays. I just think this defense will ever be truly dominate while he is a starter. People compare him to Mathis and Freeney and say they start so why not DOOM. My response is...their defense pretty much sucks too, if it weren't for the sacks it would be downright terrible just like the Broncos. IMO, DOOM is not a good option to be an every down DE. I think he needs an upgrade and if that happens and they don't want to pay him to be a situational player, then they should trade him. Until they upgrade that position, he will start, but I hope they upgrade it this draft.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,122
    Quote Originally Posted by simplistickhaos View Post
    Who are these people?

    I honestly believe, based on how things are in this league now, that we will run a straight up 4-3 defense. This isn't the old days anymore and these aren't your grandpa's Broncos. So, I truly believe that we will have Doom in multiple positions, with his hand in the dirt and standing. IMHO.
    I was one of them. Still am.

    I was hoping he would do better at OLB, which he did, but now going back to DE (probably) is bad news.

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    21,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Brohemoth View Post
    There are some serious homers on this board.

    OLB in the 3-4 is a hell of a lot different than DE in the 4-3.

    It doesn't matter if some of his sacks came with his hand on the ground in '09, it's not the same. When you are a linebacker going to the line only a few times each game, it's usually in a 2nd/3rd and long situation with the quarterback in the shotgun. In those situations Doom can throw off the o-line because he serves as a change of pace from what they see most of the game.

    When Dumervil plays the whole game at defensive end, offensive linemen can prepare and adapt to him being in the 3-point stance. More importantly, linebackers play in space and react. Linemen on the other hand are fighting/hitting each other EVERY down; they are the first line of defense. Those of us who have played in the front seven should know you get worn down on the line. We saw that happen to Dumervil time and time again. With his limited size and dependence on speed, as soon as he becomes tired he is a non-factor. This is a major reason why Doom's sack total took a hit in 2008. Add this to his inaptitude against the run and we are bound to get burned with him as a starting defensive end.

    People were calling for him to be replaced at the end of 2008. Then he has a good year at OLB (a completely different position) and suddenly it'll translate back to the d-line? BS.
    for example, in 2007...

    He got 10.5 of 12 sacks when the Broncos were ahead or tied (7.5 when ahead), only 2 when they were behind and really needed it.

    1 out 12 sacks in the 4th quarter

    5 out of 39 tackles in the 4th quarter

    3 out of 39 tackles inside either 20 yard line.


    My analysis:

    He gets most of sacks when playing with the lead and very few when behind. This doesn't help the team much when it is really needed. He odes not play well in the 4th quarter, also when it is needed the most to close out games. Does not play well close to the goal line when teams have a tendency for power running....coming out of the endzone and going in.

    In short, it seems he is a play from the lead while playing between the 20's player and onlky in the first 3 quarters. If you look at the stats for 2006 and 2008 they show a similar pattern. In 2009 while playing OLB, they look a little different with 8 out of 17 sacks in the 4th quarter but mostly pretty similar.

    That does not sound like an every down DE to me.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •