View Poll Results: How do YOU feel about Denver drafting a QB at #2 overall?

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  • I will be deeply disappointed and confused; is that really our biggest need?

    103 73.05%
  • Well, its not my first choice, or even my fifth. I hope these guys know what they are doing.

    21 14.89%
  • In John-X-Men I trust! If they believe in it, then so do I.

    9 6.38%
  • It makes sense, Tebow's raw, Orton's suspect, Quinn's third behind the first two. I'm onboard.

    5 3.55%
  • This is the best oppertunity the Broncos may have for years to grab a star like Gabbert or Newton!

    3 2.13%
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  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by #24 Next Champ View Post
    No thanks, Shannys system really made him look good n despite the fact that he's a complete P.O.S of a human being...he choked with the game on the line, he's definitely better than Orton, but not as good as Jay or even Tebow in that case
    .....he's not a POS of a human being. He was one of the few, really decent, class act professional athletes. He was so opposite of the over entitled, egotiscal athletes we so commonly see. You may not be a fan of his on field performance, but POS of a human being? I think not...

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by catsigater View Post
    The article starts of stupidly.



    Well, duh. Pretty much every professional athlete "knows" he's going to be very good. We've got 20/20 hindsight now to say he was right, but at the time his "knowing" wasn't any more, or less valid than any other athlete's self-confidence.



    Of how many good, very good, (not to mention great) QBs can it be said that outsiders had the same level of conviction they would be great as the athletes themselves. Very few, I'd imagine.

    Guess what? John Elway the football executive wouldn't be capable of having the same convictions that John Elway the first round draft choice had about his potential. That's just the way it works.

    Also, calling Tebow "a slasher" is just plain lazy writing. He was certainly a runner, but he was never a slasher.


    That above statement to me seems particularly self-defeating if true. He shouldn't be looking for the next John Elway. He should be looking for the next QB that can get the job done at a high level for a long time.

    If anyone else but John Elway were looking for the next John Elway, we'd call him an idiot. I just hope that's not what's going on - no matter who ends up calling plays in the huddle.
    I'm guessing this was mainly just bad writing, as the "he doesn't see himself in" Gabbert and Newton line--and the idea that Elway is looking for another him in this draft--is contradicted later by John's direct quotes indicating that he knows the game has changed since his days and that mobility is becoming a necessary trait in good NFL QBs (not that Elway wasn't mobile for his time, but it's a different style now and he seems to realize that). I'll believe John's quoted words over an interpretive statement by an article author.

    I think Elway is smart enough to realize that we need a good QB, not just another Elway clone.

  3. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    ... should be happy about the QB position for 2011.

    There are three QBs with NFL experience and it isn't necessary to draft one this year.

    Time to focus on D.
    This X2!

    I still think Orton will start with Tim taking the reins in 2012 (if we play this year).

    What ever it is, let's just get the Bronco's back on top. We are closer to that scenario than many think!
    Been in love with the Broncos since 1960!
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=366922&dateline=12622  85889
    I was 9 years old .... I hear the thunder again!

    Tebow Army number 69
    Adoptees: thatkidhunt, Peanut, CanDB, Gatorgirl (so far)

    Democracy.. Is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty ... Is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -- Benjamin Franklin

  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/j...uandary-042111



    Nothing terribly new but I saw the article and decided to post it nonetheless.
    All these guys predicting the Broncos taking a QB with their first pick are going to be looking awefully stupid.

  5. #830
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    I think Tebow might surprise some folks when (yeah, I'm optomistic) the teams get back together.

    I have no idea what Orton and Quinn are doing during this "vacation period", but it's being reported what Tebow is doing---working on all his "weaknesses". He stated he's working on all the stuff that's required being under center and that he had not thrown a pass, just working on his dropping back from center.

    When he came out of college, the "experts" said he wouldn't make it because of his throwing motion and being under center (along with others), so what did he do? He went out and hired a well respected coach to work on those things and many people were surprised/impressed with his improvement at the combine, especially given the relative short period of time he had to work on them. The talk then turned to "well, yeah, he showed improvement, but as soon as he gets pressured, he'll revert back to his old habits"

    I saw him make some mistakes in the games he played, but I honestly don't remember him making the same one twice (he may have, I'm just saying I don't remember any) I also saw a huge change/improvement from his first game (of the three he started) to the last one, showing me he is a quick learner.

    I'm sure that even though their not Bronco coaches, I'm betting he's getting some pretty good coaching during this lock-out period and making the most of it. Given his past history I have a feeling there might just be some very surprised people when he finally gets a chance to get on the field in training camp (optomism again). I know I'm looking forward to it.

    There are those that say Orton will be better prepared to start over Tebow because he will know the playbook better, especially if there is little, or no, training camp. I'm betting Tebow knows the playbook as well as Orton does. I believe Orton's advantage may be in the areas of reading defenses and check-down reads. A lot of that can probably be learned in the film room, but nothing compares to playing time and experience, which obviously favors Orton.

    We've had 2 years of watching Orton and basically 3 games watching Tebow. Given Orton's improvement (?) over that time versus Tebow's over his time, I think we may have seen the best Orton has to offer and just a hint of what Tebow may have to offer. Given the fire Tebow brought to the team those last 3 games and watching how the team responded to and played because of that, I think Tebow, right now, is a better Quarterback for the Broncos---maybe not a better quarterback, but a better quarterback for the Broncos.

  6. #831
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    I d'ont know what's all this thing about Tebow's so called weakness about. I mean have you looked this season's rookie QB stats ? Even Bradford haven't been spectacular, and everyone says for this year's draft that there is no Sam Bradford.
    I've watched all Tebow's games and i still gives me the chills, how that guy brings the team around him, how the crowd is crazy about him. He has the leadership, no discution about that.

    So it's about his skills?

    In what are they worse than other rookie QB? Ok he's started only 3 games and not a whole season but still, his stats are good, 5 TDs for 3 INT , 654 yds at the pass. 6 rushing TD's, 5.3 yds/att and a 82.1 rate.
    How is that bad?
    And i've seen him throw the ball, and not only 10 yds passes, he can do it. Last year he was oubviously QB2 so he didn't have the training and all the snaps Orton got, but with the proper preparation, he's a threat, a big one.

    So i don't know why we ask ourselves all these questions about him, he'll do ALL he can to improve, the guy is dedicated to it.
    If someone could bring me Elway's rookie season stats, i'd ilke to have a look at it, he's not always been a hall of famer, coatch back then let him time to grow, why don't we do the same for TT, it's only been one year and we hear about trade?
    A team isn't build in one year, get an decent defense so we can have the ball more often/longer then we'll see if the offense can follow up.

  7. #832
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    The Spread Offense ...

    ... grew out of the Single Wing as a direct snap O. Dutch Meyer (Spread Formation Football 1952) still had the snap going either to the TB or the FB. Sammy Baugh was his most famous TB.

    The spread concept was later expanded by HS coach Tiger Ellison (Run and Shoot Football: The Offense of the Future 1965) who emphasized running the ball. Mouse Davis turned it into an all-out passing attack.

    Meanwhile the triple option grew out of offenses that put the ball into play with the QB taking it under C: Frank Leahy's T formation; Tubby Raymond's Wing-T; Bill Yeoman's Veer; the I formation; the Wishbone (a variation of the Full House T); the Flexbone; the Double Wing, etc.

    In the early eighties Erk Russell started to combine the Spread Formation Run and Shoot with the Triple Option. It was the beginning of the Spread Option which Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer have made famous.

    In a four wide receiver formation four defenders must be wide and out of the box. If one safety is 10+ yards deep, that leaves six in the box. If two safeties are deep, there are only five in the box. That's not a difficult read.

    Spread Option needs a running QB, a solid RB, four very good WRs and a good OL. The Broncos have all that on their roster right now.

    Defending triple option puts tremendous pressure on a D to play strict assignments (i.e., who has give, keep, pitch?). Throw in motion on every play: from quads to bunch, from trips to quads, fly motion for triple option, etc. All of that is way too much for a D to control if the QB can run.

    Currently five DB defenses (i.e., 4-2-5, 3-3-5) are being used against no-huddle spread passing attacks. It will be interesting if and when Spread Option/Pistol make an NFL appearance in a big way. The Steelers already ran a little Spread Option in the Super Bowl. An interesting possibility is presented by John Thomson and Bill Arnsparger (Football Defense of the Future: The 2-Level Model 1988).

    *In the game of football there is no such thing as "gimmicks". There is only what works so well that it is copied by those with less imagination.
    Last edited by samparnell; 04-23-2011 at 08:21 PM.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  8. #833
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    If Tebow were an ugly atheist drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round where he was supposed to be this wouldn't be an issue. In reality Tim Tebow is massive project, a highly decorated Bradlee Van Pelt with Jake Delhomme intangibles and Justin Beeber hype.

    Jake Van Beeber has a long way to go, but we know one thing, he's probably working on it.......

  9. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by stnzed View Post
    If Tebow were an ugly atheist drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round where he was supposed to be this wouldn't be an issue. In reality Tim Tebow is massive project, a highly decorated Bradlee Van Pelt with Jake Delhomme intangibles and Justin Beeber hype.

    Jake Van Beeber has a long way to go, but we know one thing, he's probably working on it.......
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. Being one of the greatest college FB players EVER, has nothing to do with it.

    Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

  10. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. Being one of the greatest college FB players EVER, has nothing to do with it.
    I said he was highly decorated, other than that it has nothing to do with anything l'm talking about.......

  11. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by stnzed View Post
    I said he was highly decorated, other than that it has nothing to do with anything l'm talking about.......
    The only hypothetical advantage Gabbert has is, "throwing motion".

    Gabbert still has to learn how to take snaps from under center. He also has to demonstrate that he's not a dink and dunk QB. I'd rather stick with the dink and dunk QB we already have.

    Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

  12. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    The only hypothetical advantage Gabbert has is, "throwing motion".

    Gabbert still has to learn how to take snaps from under center. He also has to demonstrate that he's not a dink and dunk QB. I'd rather stick with the dink and dunk QB we already have.
    Size, speed, mobility, accuracy, arm strength, footwork, pre-snap reads and yes, 5-7 step drops. Gabbert practiced snaps from center every day in practice, Tebow never did, Steve Mariucci has no problem with Gabbert's development in this area.

    Mizzou's offense asked more NFL responsibilites from Gabbert and made him look worse on the stat sheet than he is and Tebow's offense was 99% gimmick that made his stats look better than he is. That's not to say that Gabbert doesn't have to make an adjustment to a pro style system, but he's light years ahead of Tebow.

    I think it's ironic that people (Not talking to you AW4M) around here compare Gabbert to Alex Smith, of all people, but compare Tebow to the likes of Steve Young, Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. Noting college stats as proof of future greatness even though Tebow and Smith's college stats benefitted from the same college system and Gabbert had none of the benefits that either of these QB's enjoyed in college. People keep talking like Gabbert and Tebow have the same flaws and come from the same system, that just isn't remotely true. The same thing that made Tebow "one of the greatest college FB players of all time" is the same thing that makes Gabbert a better pro prospect.

    Gabbert had Denario Alexander and Tebow played on a team loaded to the gills with legit 4 and 5 star talent, Chris Leak won a title with less talent around him. It's easy to ignore obvious differences in ability when you're backed up with stats and team accomplishments with no context.

    Do l think Gabbert is Sam Bradford? No, he's rare. But the ability to be an even more mobile Matt Ryan is there if he can make the adjustment to the pro game. Your comparison to Ortonary has more to with the nature of Mizzou's offense than inability to throw intermediate to deep.

    Btw, Orton wasn't the dink and dunker in 2010 that he had been for his entire life, if Orton can change his stripes why can't any other dink and dunker? Gabbert and Orton don't belong in the same discussion and Tebow is nowhere near the passer that Orton is. Not that the dink and dunk version Orton wasn't better than the scattershot/sandlot QB we saw in Tebow. This time last year l said Tebow can't be worse than Orton, turns out he is.

    He'd been better off with a higher college snap count but what Gabbert needs to work on he couldn't get in college, this is the same argument l made for Josh Freeman. I've yet to see a compelling argument that Gabbert can't make similar adjustments.

    And if you're looking for a QB that isn't a risk on any level than you're stuck with Orton for a long time, and you have no choice but to admit that Tebow was a wasted 1st round pick. And we all know that no Tebow fan is wiling to go there. Otherwise, if you're arguing that Gabbert is not worth the #2 but Tebow was worth the 25th then you're arguing that the scouting reports on these two just don't exist.

    Here we are talking about whatta huge risk Gabbert is when his situation is so similar to Freeman, Flacco and Sanchez -in regards to limited snaps in college, not system- while conveniently ignoring obvious differences in Tebow.

    Again; if Tebow isn't so ridiculously popular these concerns about Gabbert are a footnote. Next year we'll all have concerns about Luck, Barkley and Jones regardless of how/if Tebow plays.......

  13. #838
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    There is a huge difference between a #2 pick and a #25 pick. Yes, they are both in the first round, but #2 IMO needs to be someone who can come in and start if need be. While a #25 is someone who may need some work.

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by stnzed View Post
    If Tebow were an ugly atheist drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round where he was supposed to be this wouldn't be an issue. In reality Tim Tebow is massive project, a highly decorated Bradlee Van Pelt with Jake Delhomme intangibles and Justin Beeber hype.

    Jake Van Beeber has a long way to go, but we know one thing, he's probably working on it.......
    my gosh what a dumb post.

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardoso View Post
    my gosh what a dumb post.
    Let me guess? You disagree?.......

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