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  1. #31
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    Mar 2008
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    Denver
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    10,408
    A cornerback at #2 overall is much too high.

    A cornerback is only as good as his pass-rush. Look at the Steelers; they have mediocre cornerbacks that look great with the Pittsburgh pass rush.

    Same goes for Baltimore; they don't have great cornerbacks but the pressure their front 7 creates just makes the corners look a heck of a lot better.

    Please, no Patrick Peterson. Yes, he's talented. But we really need to build the defensive line with youth so it lasts us for the long run.

    I'm sick of the defensive line being our weakness year after year after year. We have the draft picks necessary to rebuild the line and make it a long-term strength of the Denver Broncos. Better capitalize on that opportunity.




    FA Targets: DT Jason Jones, DT Pat Simms, S Reggie Smith, LB Dan Connor




  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    the treasure valley, Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    Gotta be a first for everything, and the bust rate for DT's are extremely high compared to DB's.

    I saw this on orangemane, pretty interesting.

    First round DT's over the last decade.

    Okoye - Huge disappointment
    Harrell - Flat out bust
    Ngata - Winner
    Bunkley - Failure: TOTALLY DISAGREE...ANCHORS THE PHILLY D
    McCargo - 1 start in 5 years lol
    Travis Johnson - Bust
    Patterson - Mediocre
    Harris - Hit: Well above average, two big impact seasons
    Wilfork - Great hit
    Tubbs - Bust
    Robertson - Bust: ONLY DUE TO HIS KNEE, HAD 3 PRODUCTIVE YEARS IN NJ
    Sullivan - Bust
    Kennedy - Major bust
    Joseph - Bust
    Sims - Bust. One of my favorite KC draft picks
    Henderson - Hit, solid player for a LONG time
    Bryant - Mega bust
    Haynesworth - Hit... sometimes extremely dominant.
    Warren - Bust. VERY disappointing: TEN YEAR STARTER AND PRODUCTIVE
    Lewis - Miss, disappointing
    Stroud - Hit. Used to be dominant
    Hampton - Hit.
    Pickett - Hit. Above average but not great.

    http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...t=97852&page=6
    I added a few thoughts to the orangemane's opinions. I don't believe you can call a productive starter a bust, no matter how high he was drafted. Gholston is a bust. Jarvis Moss is a bust. Bunkley and Warren are not busts.

    You can make a list like that for just about every position, but the reality is if you want elite talent on the defensive line you need to take them in the first two rounds. I saw a list recently of the Pro Bowl players from the last 5 or 10 years (don't remember which), and more than half of them were drafted in the first round.

    You can find QB busts and a lot of WR busts too in the last 10 years in the first two rounds. Just ask the Lions, Raiders, and....the Broncos!

    Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Reno
    Posts
    3,002
    So if we draft PP or Von and use 2 A and 2 B on D line is it still a failure?

    With as much as DT's rotate I think thats the better play.
    Going on record saying I love our off season coaching hires.

  4. #34
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    the treasure valley, Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gsam View Post
    So if we draft PP or Von and use 2 A and 2 B on D line is it still a failure?

    With as much as DT's rotate I think thats the better play.
    I would be fine with Miller. OLB's can have an impact on every play. It's a lot easier to take an elite CB out of the game by simply not throwing his way. That's one of the reasons they're never drafted that high. You would have to account for Miller on every down wether or not your running or passing.

    Just look at how ineffective Champ has been. I'm not saying he's not good because he's still one of the elite corners in the league, but he only had 2 INT's last year. Teams still throw at him, but that's only because they have 4 or 5 seconds every time they pass.

    Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

  5. #35
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    Apr 2009
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    If we took PP then we would need to do something like this

    1-PP
    2a-Austin
    2b-Paea

  6. #36
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
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    14,310
    Quote Originally Posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    Gotta be a first for everything, and the bust rate for DT's are extremely high compared to DB's.

    I saw this on orangemane, pretty interesting.

    First round DT's over the last decade.

    Okoye - Huge disappointment
    Harrell - Flat out bust
    Ngata - Winner
    Bunkley - Failure
    McCargo - 1 start in 5 years lol
    Travis Johnson - Bust
    Patterson - Mediocre
    Harris - Hit: Well above average, two big impact seasons
    Wilfork - Great hit
    Tubbs - Bust
    Robertson - Bust
    Sullivan - Bust
    Kennedy - Major bust
    Joseph - Bust
    Sims - Bust. One of my favorite KC draft picks
    Henderson - Hit, solid player for a LONG time
    Bryant - Mega bust
    Haynesworth - Hit... sometimes extremely dominant.
    Warren - Bust. VERY disappointing
    Lewis - Miss, disappointing
    Stroud - Hit. Used to be dominant
    Hampton - Hit.
    Pickett - Hit. Above average but not great.

    http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...t=97852&page=6
    If you were to do a similar list with corners you would have a simlar looking list for busts. Just because people say Patrick Peterson is the "best talent" in the draft doesn't mean he'll actually end up being a great player.

    The draft is a crap shoot, none of the players are sure things!

  7. #37
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    If we took PP then we would need to do something like this

    1-PP
    2a-Austin
    2b-Paea
    Or we could go
    1-Dareus
    2a- Paea
    2b-Jimmy Smith

    I'm not sure why so many people are so in love with Austin, I'm a UNC fan and I've never thought that he was anything more than a good player...he's never lived up to the hype that he had coming out of high school.

  8. #38
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Or we could go
    1-Dareus
    2a- Paea
    2b-Jimmy Smith

    I'm not sure why so many people are so in love with Austin, I'm a UNC fan and I've never thought that he was anything more than a good player...he's never lived up to the hype that he had coming out of high school.
    Jimmy Smith will go in the first, anyways Dowling there would be huge as well, he's a stud had it not been for his injury he'd be competing with prince for the 2nd CB off the board.

    As far as Austin goes, he was good his junior year and DTs generally take longer to develop and he missed his senior season where he would have improved. He has all the measurables, and that's the type of prospect you take in the 2nd. He has all the tools he just needs to use em.

  9. #39
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    Sep 2006
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    1,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    If you were to do a similar list with corners you would have a simlar looking list for busts. Just because people say Patrick Peterson is the "best talent" in the draft doesn't mean he'll actually end up being a great player.

    The draft is a crap shoot, none of the players are sure things!
    Thats exactly right, thats why I dont believe its wise to pick DT at #2. Based on the whole crap shoot thing, why waste a shot on a rotational position?

    CB are rarely ranked this high, DTs are now becoming the new "hot commodity" some blue chip O-lineman are likely to start pursuing the DT position as it becomes a more coveted position of interest. I think the days of big fat DTs are long gone... more college teams are recruiting this position and more ATHLETES are playing this position. I think DT will be easier to find in the coming drafts than top CB or LBs.

  10. #40
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    Dec 2010
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    Mile High via CT
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    4,510
    Trading down to 4 or 5 then 7 or 8 and gettin fairley to pair with haynesworth or cofield would make me A LOT happier. Then trade both the 2nds we pick up for 2 3s,a 4,5, and 2 6ths plus pick up a 5th with the first trade down and we can have an INSANE draft
    1 fairley DT
    2a wilson or foster MLB
    B rudolph TE
    3a jordan todman RB
    B taiwan jones RB
    C barksdale RT
    4 martin parker DT
    5a darrin walls CB
    B mana silva FS
    6a marc shiechi DE
    B alex green RB
    C zach hurd OG
    D greg salas WR
    7 shane bannon FB/powerback
    Then sign durant or anderson and I see a legit playoff team

  11. #41
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by red 19 View Post
    Thats exactly right, thats why I dont believe its wise to pick DT at #2. Based on the whole crap shoot thing, why waste a shot on a rotational position?

    CB are rarely ranked this high, DTs are now becoming the new "hot commodity" some blue chip O-lineman are likely to start pursuing the DT position as it becomes a more coveted position of interest. I think the days of big fat DTs are long gone... more college teams are recruiting this position and more ATHLETES are playing this position. I think DT will be easier to find in the coming drafts than top CB or LBs.
    You take one that high, because it's probally the most important posistion on the defense. Even if they do rotate quality players at DT are way more important than a quality secondary. This draft is great for CB as well, you build from the inside out and take a CB later.

  12. #42
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    Sep 2006
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    1,340
    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    You take one that high, because it's probally the most important posistion on the defense. Even if they do rotate quality players at DT are way more important than a quality secondary. This draft is great for CB as well, you build from the inside out and take a CB later.
    And judging by what recent history has shown us, you can get DTs easier now than in years past. Look at the last few drafts including this one and there is far more DT talent available now than in the past. Its a trend thats likely to continue.....

  13. #43
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    Jimmy Smith will go in the first, anyways Dowling there would be huge as well, he's a stud had it not been for his injury he'd be competing with prince for the 2nd CB off the board.

    As far as Austin goes, he was good his junior year and DTs generally take longer to develop and he missed his senior season where he would have improved. He has all the measurables, and that's the type of prospect you take in the 2nd. He has all the tools he just needs to use em.
    To me he has the look of a Marcus Thomas, he could devlop into a good rotational player but I don't think he'll ever be a high level player.

  14. #44
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    Oct 2005
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    There are 1st round busts at every position, singling out DT's is what l call a convenient truth. Just like any other stat, it's a lazy excuse for an argument. If you're only interested in avoiding 1st round busts you're better off avoiding the 1st round altogether.

    Unfortunately you'll never sniff a superbowl with nothing but 2nd to 7th round talent.......

  15. #45
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    Apr 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by red 19 View Post
    And judging by what recent history has shown us, you can get DTs easier now than in years past. Look at the last few drafts including this one and there is far more DT talent available now than in the past. Its a trend thats likely to continue.....
    The years draft was a good DE class and strong WR class, this year it's DT and CB, the top returning DT this year is Jared Crick. Look at it this way would you rather have a stud DT/ good CB or Stud CB/ good DT when you already have a stud CB on the roster

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