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  1. #2146
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    Unfortunately, I'm with Elway. They're probably going to get swept, and that'll be the end of LeBron in CLE. If I was GS, I'd let Durant go & pursue LeBron at all costs

    I currently have LeBron in the top 5 discussion. He's there with:

    #1 MJ

    The rest in no order are:

    Shaq, Bird, Oscar Robertson, and Kareem/Wilt/Russell
    Last edited by HUMCALC; 05-30-2018 at 06:31 PM.
    Rod Smith for the HOF. TEBOW RULES!

  2. #2147
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I get that there are many variables to consider. But I do rate longevity/high performance over time, as key ingredients when measuring greatness.
    I would agree with that if when comparing it to MJ, Lebron played longer due to MJ suffering health issues. But he didn't. He came in at already 3 years longer in a much different era, retired for 2 years and then again retired for 3 years. None of it being due to physical limitations.

    If MJ comes in the league at 18 and doesn't retire in 94-96 all of his postseason stats could very well still be a good bit above Lebron. But it happened the way it happened so I do credit Lebron for still playing at this high level after 15 years.

    But not many people question Barry Sanders as the all time greatest RB. And he only played 10 years. Also not due to health concerns.

  3. #2148
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    I would agree with that if when comparing it to MJ, Lebron played longer due to MJ suffering health issues. But he didn't. He came in at already 3 years longer in a much different era, retired for 2 years and then again retired for 3 years. None of it being due to physical limitations.

    If MJ comes in the league at 18 and doesn't retire in 94-96 all of his postseason stats could very well still be a good bit above Lebron. But it happened the way it happened so I do credit Lebron for still playing at this high level after 15 years.

    But not many people question Barry Sanders as the all time greatest RB. And he only played 10 years. Also not due to health concerns.
    Couple of things....there is no downside to longevity, if a player can maintain a decent level of play. It is, for me, a key factor in the description of greatness. Great play over a long period of time.

    As for Barry Sanders.....I think he was one great, great player, but I do not hear him ranked as the best of all time very often. In fact, I wish he had played longer.

  4. #2149
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Couple of things....there is no downside to longevity, if a player can maintain a decent level of play. It is, for me, a key factor in the description of greatness. Great play over a long period of time.

    As for Barry Sanders.....I think he was one great, great player, but I do not hear him ranked as the best of all time very often. In fact, I wish he had played longer.
    I wasn't knocking longevity as a factor in it. I was pointing out that when comparing to MJ it won't be due to injury/health concerns limiting MJ from playing longer. I was saying he came in to the league 3 years later and also had a 2 year hiatus due to his fathers death. That's 5 years that were not limitations of MJ's body. If scouts had foreseen the greatness in MJ out of high school that they did in Lebron or if he his dad had not been murdered and MJ plays 5 more years perhaps we aren't even having this discussion.

    But that's shoulda, woulda, coulda territory and it didn't happen that way so I'll drop it.

    As far as Barry who the heck do you hear ranked as the greatest. Cuz I only ever hear of Barry Sanders referenced as the GOAT at RB. With the exception of perhaps maybe Jim Brown who also cut his career short but not due to health.

    To further this example Emmitt Smith holds many of the career rushing yards including most yards all time. And he was definitely a top 5 back. But I don't hear many people outside of Dallas ever reference him as the GOAT. He had that longevity factor you speak of. Which is a large reason he has the most yards ever. But his longevity is also the biggest reason people discredit him as the GOAT. Because people think guys like Sanders or Jim Brown would easily hold the records if they had played as long.

  5. #2150
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    I wasn't knocking longevity as a factor in it. I was pointing out that when comparing to MJ it won't be due to injury/health concerns limiting MJ from playing longer. I was saying he came in to the league 3 years later and also had a 2 year hiatus due to his fathers death. That's 5 years that were not limitations of MJ's body. If scouts had foreseen the greatness in MJ out of high school that they did in Lebron or if he his dad had not been murdered and MJ plays 5 more years perhaps we aren't even having this discussion.

    But that's shoulda, woulda, coulda territory and it didn't happen that way so I'll drop it.

    As far as Barry who the heck do you hear ranked as the greatest. Cuz I only ever hear of Barry Sanders referenced as the GOAT at RB. With the exception of perhaps maybe Jim Brown who also cut his career short but not due to health.

    To further this example Emmitt Smith holds many of the career rushing yards including most yards all time. And he was definitely a top 5 back. But I don't hear many people outside of Dallas ever reference him as the GOAT. He had that longevity factor you speak of. Which is a large reason he has the most yards ever. But his longevity is also the biggest reason people discredit him as the GOAT. Because people think guys like Sanders or Jim Brown would easily hold the records if they had played as long.
    Hey pal....as for the longevity thing, no problem. I think it is important in the overall analysis, but given the players we are talking, they are all very deserving of the recognition they get, whether it be GOAT or "in the conversation".

    Sorry about Sanders. Until a couple of decades ago, he never was ranked #1 as far as I can tell, though almost always top 5 for sure. Jim Brown for me, is the most often player given the title...although as you say, like Sanders, he did not play as long as fans wanted. Brown left at a very high level of play, and had pretty much dominated in his career. He had it all! He was sometimes a man against boys out there.

    But as I look through rankings of today, Sanders does stand tall.....even #1 here and there. Seems to have risen slightly to when I first started comparing great backs. But yes, I saw him play a lot, and no one could/can cut on a dime the way he did! Beautiful back to watch, and one that should have played longer.

  6. #2151
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    ^^^^^^

    Sorry for getting off track. This is an NBA thread.

  7. #2152
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Hey pal....as for the longevity thing, no problem. I think it is important in the overall analysis, but given the players we are talking, they are all very deserving of the recognition they get, whether it be GOAT or "in the conversation".

    Sorry about Sanders. Until a couple of decades ago, he never was ranked #1 as far as I can tell, though almost always top 5 for sure. Jim Brown for me, is the most often player given the title...although as you say, like Sanders, he did not play as long as fans wanted. Brown left at a very high level of play, and had pretty much dominated in his career. He had it all! He was sometimes a man against boys out there.

    But as I look through rankings of today, Sanders does stand tall.....even #1 here and there. Seems to have risen slightly to when I first started comparing great backs. But yes, I saw him play a lot, and no one could/can cut on a dime the way he did! Beautiful back to watch, and one that should have played longer.
    For what it's worth, MJ does get a major pass for the 95 playoffs. He was definitely rusty that year, but there's no guarantee they would've beaten Orlando, Indiana, or Houston if he was 100%. He actually shot the ball well, but the rest of the team pretty much sucked in the Orlando series. Horace Grant was a major factor for Orlando, and that should tell you something.

  8. #2153
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    Hey...no one even mentioned game 1. WTHeck!

    I actually missed the last part, and later had to find out that Cleveland had the ball in their hands with 4 seconds to go......and then something happened!!

    I want the GS All Star team to lose, and at least this shows that The Cavs have a chance....if they win today.

    Down with All Star teams!

  9. #2154
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Hey...no one even mentioned game 1. WTHeck!

    I actually missed the last part, and later had to find out that Cleveland had the ball in their hands with 4 seconds to go......and then something happened!!

    I want the GS All Star team to lose, and at least this shows that The Cavs have a chance....if they win today.

    Down with All Star teams!
    HumCalc opened a finals thread. All the chatter is in there.

  10. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    HumCalc opened a finals thread. All the chatter is in there.
    Thx dude. Guess I wasn't looking too hard.


  11. #2156
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    Hey Lakers fans, remember all that trash you talked about LeBron all these years? "Backpedal '18" campaign will be commencing shortly...

    If I were in LeBron's shoes, I'd go to Philadelphia. Plug right in, and you still get to play GS on the biggest stage. If you go to LA, you're bringing PG13 and/or Kawhi with you. Could be a better team in LA. Still in the West though. Also, he'd be doing the same thing countless others have done by going to the Lakers. I'd go to Philly.

  12. #2157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1 View Post
    Hey Lakers fans, remember all that trash you talked about LeBron all these years? "Backpedal '18" campaign will be commencing shortly...

    If I were in LeBron's shoes, I'd go to Philadelphia. Plug right in, and you still get to play GS on the biggest stage. If you go to LA, you're bringing PG13 and/or Kawhi with you. Could be a better team in LA. Still in the West though. Also, he'd be doing the same thing countless others have done by going to the Lakers. I'd go to Philly.
    They would love him. But I don't see him going there. They have some young talent but there are other western teams with a lot more if he wanted to go to the harder conference. Which I doubt he does.

    I read he and the Nuggets have mutual interest. I don't really buy that happening for a second but we do have more young talent for him to compete now than the Lakers do. But I agree with Bosch that if he is going to test the west the best option is the Rockets. With the Nuggets or Lakers you have to go through both. But if he goes to Houston they are probably easily the best in the league. Still have to fight the warriors but they would be better.

    I agree Philly probably makes the most sense. Stay in the East and only battle the Celtics and then Warriors. And he would probably win 2-3 rings there.

  13. #2158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverBlood View Post
    They would love him. But I don't see him going there. They have some young talent but there are other western teams with a lot more if he wanted to go to the harder conference. Which I doubt he does.

    I read he and the Nuggets have mutual interest. I don't really buy that happening for a second but we do have more young talent for him to compete now than the Lakers do. But I agree with Bosch that if he is going to test the west the best option is the Rockets. With the Nuggets or Lakers you have to go through both. But if he goes to Houston they are probably easily the best in the league. Still have to fight the warriors but they would be better.

    I agree Philly probably makes the most sense. Stay in the East and only battle the Celtics and then Warriors. And he would probably win 2-3 rings there.
    Philly needs to focus on Basketball and not tweets....

    But imagine him in Houston.....they'd be a real headache for GS. But can we please have a wee chance for him in Toronto!!!!

  14. #2159
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    With KD claiming he will re-up with the Warriors and Ariza saying he would take a pay cut to join the Warriors, LeBron is better off staying in the East and not facing the Warriors until the finals. Ring chasing is the new norm, so losing in the playoffs in the West would be a bad look. At least he can still get to the finals if he stays in the East.

  15. #2160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco51 View Post
    With KD claiming he will re-up with the Warriors and Ariza saying he would take a pay cut to join the Warriors, LeBron is better off staying in the East and not facing the Warriors until the finals. Ring chasing is the new norm, so losing in the playoffs in the West would be a bad look. At least he can still get to the finals if he stays in the East.
    I am still not sure how narrowing down the list of teams who can win it all makes The NBA (or any sport) better off. I sure wish the league's stars were spread out a bit, to make for a more competitive and interesting league. But who am I?

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