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  1. #1
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    A DT we may be looking at.


  2. #2
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    In other AFC West news:

    The word at the combine was Cincinnati free-agent Jonathan Fanene could fit in with the Broncos. He is a versatile 4-3 player who can play both defensive end and tackle.
    and

    It was a good day at the combine for potential AFC West prospects. Defensive tackles Dontari Poe of Memphis and Fletcher Cox of Mississippi State, and middle linebacker Luke Kuechly of Boston College all performed well at the combine Monday. The Broncos might be interested in Poe and Cox, and the Chiefs might look at Kuechly
    are the bits pertinent to the broncos.

  3. #3
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    Jonathan Fanene would be a decent camp body with a shot at winning a reserve role. Vickerson's replacement imo, who is due a roster bonus.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  4. #4
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    I have no idea what John Fox wants from his DTs nowadays. Maybe his opinion has changed with the evolution of the passing game. I believe Fox used to build a defense with big DTs. But we are in 2012 and multiple QBs are throwing for 5000+ yards. Fanene is a light DT (6'4, 292). Maybe Fox wants to get pass rushing DTs at any cost, even with an undersized line as result. The Broncos were apparently interested in Nick Fairley, and he is not a big DT. I see Fletcher Cox as a 4-3 DE. He can rush the passer, but he can also be washed away by double teams. Who knows? The Broncos might really like an athletic DT like Cox. As a DT, he will be asked to shoot the gap and attack the backfield. There won't be a lot of lane control, and the MLB might have a hard time trying to make plays with offensive linemen in his face. A price to pay for more pass rush.
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  5. #5
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    Posted this in a different thread, but it still applies:

    We don't need another fatass nose tackle. We've had plenty of those over the past 3 seasons, and it hasn't helped us at all.

    We need a penetrating, disrupting defensive tackle (in the mold of Geno Atkins). We haven't had a defensive tackle that can collapse the pocket and get into the backfield since Trevor Pryce.

    If we draft a penetrating 3-tech defensive tackle, our defense takes a significant step towards becoming top-10.
    I endorse Fletcher Cox.




    FA Targets: DT Jason Jones, DT Pat Simms, S Reggie Smith, LB Dan Connor




  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    I have no idea what John Fox wants from his DTs nowadays. Maybe his opinion has changed with the evolution of the passing game. I believe Fox used to build a defense with big DTs. But we are in 2012 and multiple QBs are throwing for 5000+ yards. Fanene is a light DT (6'4, 292). Maybe Fox wants to get pass rushing DTs at any cost, even with an undersized line as result. The Broncos were apparently interested in Nick Fairley, and he is not a big DT. I see Fletcher Cox as a 4-3 DE. He can rush the passer, but he can also be washed away by double teams. Who knows? The Broncos might really like an athletic DT like Cox. As a DT, he will be asked to shoot the gap and attack the backfield. There won't be a lot of lane control, and the MLB might have a hard time trying to make plays with offensive linemen in his face. A price to pay for more pass rush.
    Maybe more teams will emulate the Giants with four DEs in passing situations.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  7. #7
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    Poe @ 25 anyone?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhBehave30 View Post
    Poe @ 25 anyone?
    He won't be there with his combine, but sure, if he was.

  9. #9
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    One thing is for, we should either have or choice of DT, or with all the noise they are generating, we could catch someone great who drops. It's going to be a fun draft.
    Hate List for 2016-2017 Season: 1. Oakland, 2. New England, 3. Kansas City, 4. Pittsburgh and 5. Houston (yes, Houston....)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Maybe more teams will emulate the Giants with four DEs in passing situations.
    The Broncos can do something like this. They already use Ayers as a DT on passing downs. Dumervil-Ayers-DE-Miller. Recently, John Fox said the Broncos will have different pressure packages for 2012.

    Maybe the team is willing to add a 290-pound pass rushing DT through the draft or free agency. My question is: what happens on 1st and 2nd down? Will the undersized DT be limited to passing situations? The Broncos don't throw on 1st down, but other teams do (a lot).

    Dumervil is an undersized DE. Miller is a rush LB/DE that was benched for hurting the run defense. I don't think an undersized DT (that will probably struggle to anchor and fight against double teams) will make things better.

    Someway, somehow, the Broncos will have to find a DT that can rush the passer and keep the QB trapped in the pocket. Without this type of DT, the defense will have to manufacture inside pressure (maybe with Von Miller blitzing the interior part of the line more often). But it in an ideal situation, Dumervil and Miller would come from the edges and the pass rushing DT would not allow the QB to step up into the pocket.

    I will repeat myself (older posts) but I like a 4-3 defense with a big DL. Don't bend and break against the run. 320-pound DTs keeping the MLB free, 280/290-pound DEs that can be strong against the run. And then you have to get pass rush from these big guys. It's easier said than done, but it is possible if you make the necessary moves during the draft and free agency.

    When the Broncos drafted Von Miller, I understood MUG's frustration. He wanted Dareus. And it's a fair point, even with Miller's DROY campaign. In the long run, you have to wonder when the team will have another opportunity to add a pass rushing NT like Dareus. He would have been a huge part of the puzzle (if the goal is to have a stout DL that can rush the passer with less help from a 5th rusher - less blitz, more coverage).

    A player like Fletcher Cox, in my opinion, would be a nice LDE in a 4-3 defense. No need to feed him with Myoplex (and other stuff) until he breaks 300 pounds. Cox would be able to carry less weight (285-290 pounds) and play with more athleticism as a DE. His experience as a DT would help against the run and his athletic ability combined with technique would bring the pass rush.

    As a DT, Fletcher Cox will get after the QB. He will not take care of the MLB. Dumervil at RDE, Cox playing 3-technique. I would be worried on 1st and 2nd down. The defense would have to rely on outstanding effort from the LBs.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    He won't be there with his combine, but sure, if he was.
    QFT ...would love Poe but he most likely won't be there

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    The Broncos can do something like this. They already use Ayers as a DT on passing downs. Dumervil-Ayers-DE-Miller. Recently, John Fox said the Broncos will have different pressure packages for 2012.

    Maybe the team is willing to add a 290-pound pass rushing DT through the draft or free agency. My question is: what happens on 1st and 2nd down? Will the undersized DT be limited to passing situations? The Broncos don't throw on 1st down, but other teams do (a lot).

    Dumervil is an undersized DE. Miller is a rush LB/DE that was benched for hurting the run defense. I don't think an undersized DT (that will probably struggle to anchor and fight against double teams) will make things better.

    Someway, somehow, the Broncos will have to find a DT that can rush the passer and keep the QB trapped in the pocket. Without this type of DT, the defense will have to manufacture inside pressure (maybe with Von Miller blitzing the interior part of the line more often). But it in an ideal situation, Dumervil and Miller would come from the edges and the pass rushing DT would not allow the QB to step up into the pocket.

    I will repeat myself (older posts) but I like a 4-3 defense with a big DL. Don't bend and break against the run. 320-pound DTs keeping the MLB free, 280/290-pound DEs that can be strong against the run. And then you have to get pass rush from these big guys. It's easier said than done, but it is possible if you make the necessary moves during the draft and free agency.

    When the Broncos drafted Von Miller, I understood MUG's frustration. He wanted Dareus. And it's a fair point, even with Miller's DROY campaign. In the long run, you have to wonder when the team will have another opportunity to add a pass rushing NT like Dareus. He would have been a huge part of the puzzle (if the goal is to have a stout DL that can rush the passer with less help from a 5th rusher - less blitz, more coverage).

    A player like Fletcher Cox, in my opinion, would be a nice LDE in a 4-3 defense. No need to feed him with Myoplex (and other stuff) until he breaks 300 pounds. Cox would be able to carry less weight (285-290 pounds) and play with more athleticism as a DE. His experience as a DT would help against the run and his athletic ability combined with technique would bring the pass rush.

    As a DT, Fletcher Cox will get after the QB. He will not take care of the MLB. Dumervil at RDE, Cox playing 3-technique. I would be worried on 1st and 2nd down. The defense would have to rely on outstanding effort from the LBs.
    I trust the Broncos to draft well. Like last year, I expect a DT in the first round. I won't melt down if they don't take one.

    Cox, Worthy, Poe. Who knows? The Broncos have a great DL coach. Seems like a decent year for DTs.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    The Broncos can do something like this. They already use Ayers as a DT on passing downs. Dumervil-Ayers-DE-Miller. Recently, John Fox said the Broncos will have different pressure packages for 2012.

    Maybe the team is willing to add a 290-pound pass rushing DT through the draft or free agency. My question is: what happens on 1st and 2nd down? Will the undersized DT be limited to passing situations? The Broncos don't throw on 1st down, but other teams do (a lot).

    Dumervil is an undersized DE. Miller is a rush LB/DE that was benched for hurting the run defense. I don't think an undersized DT (that will probably struggle to anchor and fight against double teams) will make things better.

    Someway, somehow, the Broncos will have to find a DT that can rush the passer and keep the QB trapped in the pocket. Without this type of DT, the defense will have to manufacture inside pressure (maybe with Von Miller blitzing the interior part of the line more often). But it in an ideal situation, Dumervil and Miller would come from the edges and the pass rushing DT would not allow the QB to step up into the pocket.

    I will repeat myself (older posts) but I like a 4-3 defense with a big DL. Don't bend and break against the run. 320-pound DTs keeping the MLB free, 280/290-pound DEs that can be strong against the run. And then you have to get pass rush from these big guys. It's easier said than done, but it is possible if you make the necessary moves during the draft and free agency.

    When the Broncos drafted Von Miller, I understood MUG's frustration. He wanted Dareus. And it's a fair point, even with Miller's DROY campaign. In the long run, you have to wonder when the team will have another opportunity to add a pass rushing NT like Dareus. He would have been a huge part of the puzzle (if the goal is to have a stout DL that can rush the passer with less help from a 5th rusher - less blitz, more coverage).

    A player like Fletcher Cox, in my opinion, would be a nice LDE in a 4-3 defense. No need to feed him with Myoplex (and other stuff) until he breaks 300 pounds. Cox would be able to carry less weight (285-290 pounds) and play with more athleticism as a DE. His experience as a DT would help against the run and his athletic ability combined with technique would bring the pass rush.

    As a DT, Fletcher Cox will get after the QB. He will not take care of the MLB. Dumervil at RDE, Cox playing 3-technique. I would be worried on 1st and 2nd down. The defense would have to rely on outstanding effort from the LBs.
    What do you think about Kendall Reyes? 300lber with a pretty big frame and had I think the 2nd most reps among DTs. Did I mention at 300lbs he can do a springboard backflip?!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazmo View Post
    What do you think about Kendall Reyes? 300lber with a pretty big frame and had I think the 2nd most reps among DTs. Did I mention at 300lbs he can do a springboard backflip?!
    In terms of stats in the last two seasons, I think he can compete with the top DTs in this class. He has the production. Reyes was a team captain and is known as a hard worker. Arm length is not an issue. The Broncos probably like him, but I don't know if they like him in the 1st round. I think the Broncos might spend the 1st round pick on a DT if they can get one of their top 3 DTs at #25.

    From what I've seen, Reyes is in good shape and plays with good effort. I think he is in the same category as Fletcher Cox: smaller, more athletic DT that can play DE. At this point, the Broncos probably know what they want to do with their DL. Are they willing to sacrifice size to become more athletic? We have to consider the possible influence of Jack Del Rio, who was the Jaguars' head coach when they drafted the undersized Tyson Alualu in the top 10.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
    I have no idea what John Fox wants from his DTs nowadays. Maybe his opinion has changed with the evolution of the passing game. I believe Fox used to build a defense with big DTs. But we are in 2012 and multiple QBs are throwing for 5000+ yards. Fanene is a light DT (6'4, 292). Maybe Fox wants to get pass rushing DTs at any cost, even with an undersized line as result. The Broncos were apparently interested in Nick Fairley, and he is not a big DT. I see Fletcher Cox as a 4-3 DE. He can rush the passer, but he can also be washed away by double teams. Who knows? The Broncos might really like an athletic DT like Cox. As a DT, he will be asked to shoot the gap and attack the backfield. There won't be a lot of lane control, and the MLB might have a hard time trying to make plays with offensive linemen in his face. A price to pay for more pass rush.
    Last year we entertained the notion of trading back into the 1st round to nab Fairley, but we declined and afterwards we were looking at M-Wilkerson & J-Jenkins. This would suggest that D-Poe is probably #1 on our big board.

    "In their draft meetings before the NFL scouting combine, the Broncos discussed Memphis defensive tackle Dontari Poe a lot."

    Broncos coach John Fox favors speed and quickness on defense over size. But when Fox was coaching the Carolina Panthers, one of their best defensive players was massive tackle Kris Jenkins (6-foot-4, 360 pounds)."

    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20058318

    DP also has this article today on potential DL prospects: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20052025

    Let's say DE/OLB combo prospects like Couples, Ingram, & Upshaw are off the board. Let's say DT options like Cox & Poe are gone.

    I think the interesting question is... and the answer will eventually shed light on what FOX ultimately covets:

    Where do we go from here?

    Do we take the next tier "big" space-eating DT (Still, Worthy, Thompson). Play it safe and plug middle w/ bulk, not expecting much penetration.

    Or, do we go the giant-way & look for pass-rushing DT/DE combo options, and swing for the fences and draft a Michael Brockers (based purely on upside). Maybe other options like Mercilus, Perry, Branch or Curry.

    If we want a big DT... and our 1st round rated options are gone... Do we do like last year, and forgo the DT in round #1 b/c our big board says go RB or CB, and thus hope to snag another DT in round 2 (Martin, Wolfe, Reyes, Ta'amu).

    (Have a feeling FOX would prefer a RB like Miller, Wilson or Martin over a Still or Worthy).

    Seems like if we are going DL no matter what... then we should expect one of these 13 players:

    Couples
    Ingram
    Upshaw
    Cox
    Poe
    Brockers
    Mercilus
    Still
    Worthy
    Thompson
    Perry
    Branch
    Curry


    My other question is... where is that line? I imagine we seek a pass-rush threat, penetrating DT as our goal w/ the first round pick. I think we have X amount of guys on our big board (both big, strong DT prospects & combo DE/DT options) that we deem worthy to stay put at 26. I would venture to guess probably 8-9 of those aforementioned fellows are above that line... I think if somehow all 8-9 are gone when our pick arrives (which I highly doubt), then we would trade back... Look to grab an extra second... Target a RB (Miller, Wilson, Martin) and use the extra pick to grab the next-best DT option in the 2nd round (and a CB with our other high pick).
    Last edited by fraguela09; 02-28-2012 at 08:00 AM.

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