Hate to be a downer, but...

[Sync]

We won the division and a playoff game because of Tim Tebow, period!

We won the division because Oakland lost to San Diego, actually.

[JvDub95]

We won the division and a playoff game because of Tim Tebow, period!

Yeah, your right, the defense had absolutly nothing to do with getting the team to a division title

[Spartan82]

The Defense did play well last year...except against teams with all their starting players, most notably their starting QBs and RBs. Otherwise, they got their doors blown off. Our scoring defense was bottom of the league. So unless most of the teams we play, start their 3rd string QBs, practice squad RBs, or rookies, don't expect our D to stop anyone. Manning will get killed behind our O-line. Has anyone seen Franklin pass block? I'm serious...he is a good run blocked, but I have never seen him pass block because it seems rushers come untouched everytime on his side.
A broke Manning is not going to help the talent on this team....we tried the accurate pocket passer who couldn't move already, behind this o-line with no running game.

[BroncoFanNC]

The Defense did play well last year...except against teams with all their starting players, most notably their starting QBs and RBs. Otherwise, they got their doors blown off. Our scoring defense was bottom of the league. So unless most of the teams we play, start their 3rd string QBs, practice squad RBs, or rookies, don't expect our D to stop anyone. Manning will get killed behind our O-line. Has anyone seen Franklin pass block? I'm serious...he is a good run blocked, but I have never seen him pass block because it seems rushers come untouched everytime on his side.
A broke Manning is not going to help the talent on this team....we tried the accurate pocket passer who couldn't move already, behind this o-line with no running game.

Did you watch Orton last year? Besides the 1st game against Oakland (Franklins 1st game), he was hardly touched.

[Spartan82]

We won the division because Oakland lost to San Diego, actually.

No...we won the division because we beat all the teams we needed to beat....the other teams in our division did not. The only reason people say that is because the Raider game ended after the Broncos game. Had the Broncos/KC game been the Sunday night game and the Raiders lost before the game even started.....Broncos would have won the AFCW and could have rested all their starters. Had they lost then...would people say they "backed in". No.

[bronc_fan23]

Can I ask what the point of discussing the past right now is?

We should discuss the past after Manning has been deemed a success or a failure.

These stupid threads are going to go on all summer.

[Spartan82]

Did you watch Orton last year? Besides the 1st game against Oakland (Franklins 1st game), he was hardly touched.

Yeah, I watched him go 1-4, and lose how many more games before that. And in the San Diego game he got benches, I thought I saw Orton getting hit everytime he dropped back. And I don't know how many times Tebow got blasted in the back because Franklin missed a block. And not because he held the ball too long. I specifically remember Detroit hitting Tebow on a 3step drop before Tebow even got to his second step. I just think this O-line, along with the Defense as a whole, are over rated and have some unrealistic expectations for how good they will be next year.

[BroncoFanNC]

Yeah, I watched him go 1-4, and lose how many more games before that. And in the San Diego game he got benches, I thought I saw Orton getting hit everytime he dropped back. And I don't know how many times Tebow got blasted in the back because Franklin missed a block. And not because he held the ball too long. I specifically remember Detroit hitting Tebow on a 3step drop before Tebow even got to his second step. I just think this O-line, along with the Defense as a whole, are over rated and have some unrealistic expectations for how good they will be next year.

Uh, our O-Line was ranked 8th in QB hits (1st being the least amount of hits on a QB), and Orton was sacked 8 times in 4 games, 4 coming from the 1st game.

How on earth can you say that he was hit every time he dropped back?

[broncos SB2010]

Who is this Tebow you speak of? I don't see his name on the roster anywhere.....

[Spartan82]

Uh, our O-Line was ranked 8th in QB hits (1st being the least amount of hits on a QB), and Orton was sacked 8 times in 4 games, 4 coming from the 1st game.

How on earth can you say that he was hit every time he dropped back?

Well, then what my perception of what I saw is worse than the stats, which is a good thing.
So then I guess Orton really had no excuse for how bad he played.
If the O-line is as good as you say, maybe Manning will have time to throw and won't get hit so much. Still think it was a big mistake. But anything to rid of Tebow I guess. In 2 years we'll be looking for another QB. but for the next 2 seasons, ill hope this team can be as good as everybody seems to think. I'm just very cautiously optimistic, almost pessimistic .

[Capt. Jack]

Who is this Tebow you speak of? I don't see his name on the roster anywhere.....

He was the last QB to win a playoff game for the BRONCOS!!! One of only 2 since the great Elway retired! :-)

[Luckyshot]

Here is the problem with a thread like this.

It absolutely ignores the fact that without Manning, the Colts went from a playoff team to a 2-14. Look at last year's Colt, it was basically the same team as with 2010 Colt's team. Manning brings you wins.

Tebow brought us some wins, but the last 3 games of the season he repeated what Kyle Orton and Jay Culter had done in the past. They were choking it all away.

[BRONCO3DDAVE]

Everyone is on a high because of the Peyton Manning signing, but to think we really are Super Bowl contenders is beyond ridiculous. First off I will go on record to say that dumping Tebow, who we traded away 3 draft picks to move back into the 1st round to take, for basically a 4th round pick will be a mistake of epic proportions, but only time will tell I guess.

Signing Manning was a great move in most people's eyes, and it would have made sense if he had a team around him, unfortunately he does not. Let's take a look at the roster, shall we?

Quarterback
Ok, we got Manning, who was, and I repeat was, one of the all-time greats. But at age 36 and coming off 4 neck surgeries I gotta wonder if he'll hold up, one blind side hit could put everything to a screeching halt. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see him taking us to the promise land. If and when he goes down who takes over? Caleb Hanie? Adam Webber? Lets hope he stays healthy.

Running back
McGahee had a solid season, but isn't the most durable player out there. He will have to carry a huge load because we simply cannot count on Knowshon Moreno, or Lance Ball. We did nothing to address this in FA, but hey, with Manning chucking it 50 times a game who needs a running game right?

Wide Recievers
I love Demaryius Thomas' potential, and he could be a great one, but heis not #1 reciever material yet. Decker is solid, but coming off a significant injury. We lose Eddie Royal but gain Andre Caldwell, lateral move at WR if you ask me, and when it comes to the return game, definite downgrade imo. But hey, Manning can make any reciever look all-pro, right?

Tight Ends
We did upgrade here with Tamme and Dreesen, and I think Julius Thomas could step up this year. I'll give EFX a thumbs up here.

O-Line
Our o-line did a good job run-blocking last year, pass blocking was a little sketchy though. Clady is no longer an elite LT, he's good but not elite. Beadles is a decent guard, but wouldn't start on alot of teams. J.D. Walton is a solid center, but we could use an upgrade here. I have a hard time believing Kuper will be the player he was after that horrific injury. Franklin appears to be a good pick, he should only improve this year. Once again, we completely neglected the line in FA, and we have zero depth. But hey, when you have Peyton Manning, who needs good pass blockers right?

D-Line
Doom and Ayers are good DE's, but Doom is on the small side and can get shoved around in the running game. What the heck is our plan at DT? Letting Bunkley walk was beyond retarded, especially at 5 million per year, somehow it doesn't make sense to re-sign our best DT at this small price tag, but it makes perfect sense to give a 36 year old QB 19 million per year. EFX must think we're ok here with Vickerson and Warren, this makes me laugh. Warren isn't 1/10th of the player he once was, and Vickerson wouldn't start on most NFL teams. Fact is, in a division with the Raiders and Chiefs, two of the best running teams in the NFL, we need to be able to stop the run. No, teams will ram it down our throat, which nuetralizes Manning and keeps him off the field. But hey, our offense will score 40 points per week with Manning right? I hope so, cause thats the only way we'll win most weeks.

Linebackers
Once again, we have no good run-stuffers at LB. Miller is good at getting to the passer, but is a liability in the run game. Mays as our starting MLB is a joke, the free agent pool was full of top-notch MLBs, but we land none, heck we only brought one in for a visit. So we have Mays and Irving competing here, scary thought if you ask me. Woodyard will hold the fort at WILL while D.J. serves yet another suspension. Woodyard is solid, but once again, would not start on most NFL teams. we did nothing in FA to address this thin position, but hey, at least we got Manning.

Defensive backs
The secondary looks pretty good, and I like the Tracy Porter and Mike Adams signings. Champ is still a top 10 CB. This is without question the strength of our defense, but who needs to pass when teams will run for 200+ yards a game on us.

Optimism is high around here, but I just dont see how we improve from our 8-8 year last season. Manning has mediocre playmakers around him, a shaky o-line, and one quality rb. Our defense will take a step back from a barely mediocre performance last year. We will not be able to stop the run, and EFX has done nothing to address maybe the worst defensive line in the NFL. While I hope Manning is all that everyone hopes, I just see teams pounding it down our throats and keeping Manning off the field, we will not be able to stop the run, period. This team has so many holes, and we've filled none of them in FA so we'll have to look at the draft to fill them. But, I have a bold prediction, wanna hear it? Ryan Tannenhill will fall out of the top 10 on draft day, and we'll trade up to take him. Elway truly feels that all you need is a QB, and I think he feels Manning has 2-3 years left in him tops, so he'll want someone to groom under him, he will make a play for Tannenhill, thats my prediction. Which leaves us with maybe 3 or 4 mid to late round picks to fill our needs at DT, RB, O-Line, and Linebacker. The smart play? Take DT in the first 2 rounds, hope we hit huge on one of them, and since we will be looking at a top 15 pick in 2013 go hard after Barkley of Landry Jones.

Again, I hate to be a downer but, get used to alot of 35-31 ball games, which we'll lose most of because when teams get up on us, they can pound the running game, and chew up clock and there will be nothing we can do about it.

This is not a Tebow support thread, this is realism. We do not stack up agaisnt elite teams in the AFC, Manning or no Manning, we have a long way to go and it appears that Elway and company are basking in the limelight of making the biggest free agent signing of all time, and completely ignoring a roster full of gaping holes.

Color me worried. Flame all you want, but this is real. I'm predicting 8-8 at absolute best, and thats a stretch!

This is very well written and I couldn't agree with you more! When everything shakes out it will be interesting to see which teams wind up in the playoffs and which teams don't.

[Sync]

No...we won the division because we beat all the teams we needed to beat....the other teams in our division did not. The only reason people say that is because the Raider game ended after the Broncos game. Had the Broncos/KC game been the Sunday night game and the Raiders lost before the game even started.....Broncos would have won the AFCW and could have rested all their starters. Had they lost then...would people say they "backed in". No.

Yes, they would've. We lost Weeks 15 + 16 too. Remember?
We "needed" to beat KC. Instead we put up three points.
... And we were damn lucky to get those.

[rogue719]

Everyone is on a high because of the Peyton Manning signing, but to think we really are Super Bowl contenders is beyond ridiculous. First off I will go on record to say that dumping Tebow, who we traded away 3 draft picks to move back into the 1st round to take, for basically a 4th round pick will be a mistake of epic proportions, but only time will tell I guess.

Which says more about how far McDaniels was reaching when he drafted him. Not surprising considering some of McDaniels other picks. I get that you're a Tebow fan, but if you can't see that Peyton Manning isn't an immediate upgrade at the position, then there isn't much that anyone can explain to you.

Doesn't it say something to you that Tebow is not worth more to ANY team in the NFL than a 4th round pick, after everyone in the league had a chance to watch him play last season? Even teams that don't have a QB, like Miami, wouldn't offer more than a 4th round pick for the guy, and he would put butts into their seats.

Signing Manning was a great move in most people's eyes, and it would have made sense if he had a team around him, unfortunately he does not. Let's take a look at the roster, shall we?

Quarterback
Ok, we got Manning, who was, and I repeat was, one of the all-time greats. But at age 36 and coming off 4 neck surgeries I gotta wonder if he'll hold up, one blind side hit could put everything to a screeching halt. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see him taking us to the promise land. If and when he goes down who takes over? Caleb Hanie? Adam Webber? Lets hope he stays healthy.

Yes, we need a good backup, but we needed that whether we got Manning or kept Tebow. Your point is a wash.

The rest of your points seem to indicate that because we didn't go out and get everything you think we needed in FA that we are a bad team.

We won't be running the Tebow dumbed-down college-style spread offense this season. We will be running what looks an awful lot like Manning's offense in Indy. We have upgraded slightly on our receivers, but I think someone who throws as well as Manning does will throw a ball MUCH easier to catch than that flat, hard, baseball-type pass that Tebow threw. I think our current guys will look MUCH better with Manning than they did with Tebow.

We also have an offensive line that is as good overall as the one Manning had, including a Pro-Bowl LT to watch his blind side. I think Saturday, simply by virtue of his experience, would have been an upgrade over Walton at Center, but I think our young line will do a good job to both make holes for the running game and protect Manning. And Knowshon is a good guy to have in the backfield for that, as he can block well and he can catch passes well and runs well in the broken field. McGahee still needs a solid running back to switch off with in the run game and if the FO feels that isn't Moreno, look for us to draft one.

Here's something else to remember: with Tebow, defenses played us a very disciplined assignment type scheme, and against that we can't make much use of screens and draws, as teams are playing so close on assignments. With Manning and the type of overpursuit we can expect, we can also make use of draws and screens again. Teams that sell out the farm to try to get to Manning can be beaten like he used to beat us when we played the blitz often against him.

We need to shore up our DT's, absolutely. We lost Bunkley, who was a solid run stopper and we may lose Thomas, but we are also getting back Warren and Vickerson. But there is also a change in philosophy. Under a Manning offense, the goal is to get out front and run up the score and play with a lead. Bunkley and Thomas were not good sack artists and didn't put on much of a pass rush, nor collapse the pocket in the middle. QB's like Brady simply stepped up in the pocket to evade the pass rush we had coming from the ends. Vickerson and Warren may be better here but this draft is also heavy with DT talent. Look for us to draft one and perhaps two DT's this draft, particularly guys we think can push the pocket from the center and get pressure on the QB.

We addressed weaknesses in our secondary with FA and our rookies should come back better this season than they were last, when they played without benefit of an offseason. We return most of our defense, we upgraded at defensive coordinator and the corner opposite Champ. Our young linebacking corps has had a year to get better and I think both Irving and Mohammed will be more effective this season, particularly Irving, who may be able to compete for the starting spot.

Everyone but the Tebow fanatics seems to see that we are a MUCH better team so far this season than we were last season, and every doctor who has examined Manning said he's no more likely to have a serious neck injury now than any other player on the field. If he were, he's said he would give up the game as he's not so crazy as to risk serious injury and paralysis from his neck.