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  1. #1
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    John Elway is building the team flawed.

    If you could try to keep bias and emotion out of this it would be appreciated. Any opinion is welcome to be discussed. I entrust with you all my opinion because you are true Bronco fans. I am sure you all will be well informed on the topic.


    I was thinking about the Bronco's bringing in Woodson and it made me realize that John Elway might be preparing for this season the wrong way.

    Champ Bailey is older, Woodson is older, Tony Carter got exsposed down the stretch and as good as Chris Harris is, he is a product of the system(the way the team designs it's scheme.)

    I have never seen WRs get behind Champ Bailey like this before. I have seen him beat in Shannahan defenses where his first read was to play the run(because the run defensewas so bad,we had one pass rusher, doom...etc). His job is a ton less complex. He lines up over the #1 and takes them out of the game. I have never seen him get beat this much in those situations, not deep. He was beat deep often by AJ Green, Torrey Smith, Andre Johnson(even though Andre dropped one), B. Lloyd was getting him on short routes, and I didn't watch D. Bowe games, but I know he had a good stat line in one.) Champ still plays amazing defense, but you can tell he's not the same player. He is getting older.

    Woodson is an ok safety, but when he was put into coverage I saw him beat a few times last year. I'm not too certain of his ability to play anything vertical, but it's not a bad signing for what he would bring to the team in savvy and leadership.(old school big10 football swag)

    Tony Carter made some plays, but started getting picked on.

    Chris Harris is a good player, but the defense is built around his "lack" of abilities and allows him to play to his strengths. Often the safety shades his side(The Champ effect) and there is a form of underneath coverage that shades underneath. See the coverage in one of our biggest plays this past year. Champ is 1on1 as the TE IS guarded in and out, as well as the slot wr. CREDIT TO CHRIS HARRIS FOR UNDERSTANDING THE DEFENSE AND MAKING A PLAY. I do not take that away from him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9959...e_gdata_player


    Elway says we have more than replaced the pass rush lost by Doom, but I just can't accept that as fact. Do you guys know how hard it is to replace a proven pass rusher in the NFL? The Ravens were not even a serious playoff contender without Suggs and he changed that(ask Clady.) The Pats haven't won a SB without one, The 9ers looked subpar after Justin Smith's injury and leaving Aldon Smith sack less without him. There are SO many instances of this even in our franchises recent history. And we let our talent go. We let the one pass rusher we developed since Trevor Pryce go.

    I know Doom gets one on one match-ups due to Von and he gives in the run game, but he was still a threat on third and long and you can not take that for granted. He also made teams think about his presence if they focused too much on Von.

    You do not build from the secondary down to the LOS. It should be the other way around.

    This whole team is being built with the flaw of thinking Peyton' going to get early leads and rush freely. I do not see that happening as often this year. A lot of our division games were well played. We also looked mediocre vs actually talented teams(although you could excuse some early games because of Peyton's return to football, Peyton's progression In health, offensive chemistry...etc.) the Eagles made the same mistake.

    Regardless i look forward to the season and would welcome Charles to the Broncos. He is one of the best Dbs of my generation on any level and has a ton of memorable plays.

    I
    Last edited by Champ>NFL; 05-16-2013 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Grammar

  2. #2
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    So if we don't add Woodson, you're cool with how things are going?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncosDivision View Post
    So if we don't add Woodson, you're cool with how things are going?
    Getting Woodson is not a negative because it adds more depth and another style of play to an average safety core. I'm fine with that. I'm just not sold on the direction the team is going right now.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ>NFL View Post
    Getting Woodson is not a negative because it adds more depth and another style of play to an average safety core. I'm fine with that. I'm just not sold on the direction the team is going right now.
    Exactly, he would add depth and things will work itself out in training camp (depth chart).

    I actually really like the direction we've taken since Elway took over.. not sure I follow you there?
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  5. #5
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    Keep in mind that a championship roster usually consists of young talent and veteran leadership. That's usually how things work (in all team sports that I can think of)
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  6. #6
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    This team went from suck to great in about 2 years with Elway here. We went from the bottom of our division to Superbowl contenders and a top 3 ranked team. We have one of the best offenses in Football, if not he best, and a defense that was top 5 in almost every category that yes, failed miserably in a playoff game. We are one of the BEST teams in football, and are fully expected to be in the AFC championship if not winning the superbowl next year by anyone that knows football, and all this came a few years after this team was 4 and 12 with McDaniels. Elway has done a poor job? No team is perfect. There is not a single perfect team out there. This team is about as close as it will get next year. Sorry we cant afford all of your favorite players.

  7. #7
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    I think Champ gets burned on the deep plays because he has to guard against the run very often.Our run defense in the past has been pathetic and Champ has been one of the bright spots to make tackles.

    By adding Sly Williams,Knighton,and co.... it should make Bailey concentrate more on the secondary,guarding more against the deep plays instead of the run defense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightinglee View Post
    This team went from suck to great in about 2 years with Elway here. We went from the bottom of our division to Superbowl contenders and a top 3 ranked team. We have one of the best offenses in Football, if not he best, and a defense that was top 5 in almost every category that yes, failed miserably in a playoff game. We are one of the BEST teams in football, and are fully expected to be in the AFC championship if not winning the superbowl next year by anyone that knows football, and all this came a few years after this team was 4 and 12 with McDaniels. Elway has done a poor job? No team is perfect. There is not a single perfect team out there. This team is about as close as it will get next year. Sorry we cant afford all of your favorite players.
    The players played good last season.It was the coaching against good teams that got out coached in meanful games imo.

    I hope our strategies are better this season!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ>NFL View Post
    The Ravens were not even a serious playoff contender without Suggs and he changed that(ask Clady.)
    A couple of years ago? Sure. Not last year.

    While Suggs was injured and busy shooting movies in South Beach, Paul Kruger completely took over.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoSexyDaddy View Post
    I think Champ gets burned on the deep plays because he has to guard against the run very often.Our run defense in the past has been pathetic and Champ has been one of the bright spots to make tackles.

    By adding Sly Williams,Knighton,and co.... it should make Bailey concentrate more on the secondary,guarding more against the deep plays instead of the run defense.
    Not to discredit Elway, but it's vs the worst division in football, he was fortunate enough to have MCcoy be one of the first to implement the read option offense with Tebow and it caught offenses off guard and he got Peyton. So while he actually deserves praise for those more so than anything I'm still skeptical of him knowing how to build a team.

    Also, Champ did not have much run responsibility this year. He was just getting beat, simple. Trust me I love Champ. He hadnt had this much freedom to just cover a WR since Mike Nolan.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncosDivision View Post
    A couple of years ago? Sure. Not last year.

    While Suggs was injured and busy shooting movies in South Beach, Paul Kruger completely took over.
    Yes, last year. He played comeltey different in the playoffs than in the regular season. With each game his knee got better. He stoned Clady in the run game and he generated enough of a pass rush to make a difference. He wasn't as explosive, but he was stout against the run and generated enough of a pass rush to disrupt passers. Paul Kruger is ok, that's it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ>NFL View Post
    Not to discredit Elway, but it's vs the worst division in football, he was fortunate enough to have MCcoy be one of the first to implement the read option offense with Tebow and it caught offenses off guard and he got Peyton. So while he actually deserves praise for those more so than anything I'm still skeptical of him knowing how to build a team.

    Champ did not have much run responsibility this year. He was just getting beat, simple. Trust me I love Champ. He hadnt had this much freedom to just cover a WR since Mike Nolan.
    Do you honestly believe Elway would bring Bailey back paying him over 9 million a season if that was the case.If Doom didn't get paid,why would John dish out the cash for Bailey.I'm sure the film shows different than what you are saying.

    Our division is not the problem,we are undefeated.It's the good teams in other divisions that's giving us the problems.

  13. #13
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    So you say they are building the team from the Secondary forward but the draft and Free Agency seem to speak otherwise in my opinion. They went out and signed 2 DT's this year in Knighton and Vickerson to anchor against the run and Knighton has some pass rush ability. They over the last 2 years have drafted 2 DT's/DE's depending what you want to call Wolfe with our 1st picks of the last 2 drafts. They drafted a pass rush specialist in Smith in the 5th round to help develop him behind Ayers and Phillips. They went and got Phillips at a good price who still has ability and should do well with Von on the opposite side. They also drafted Von, Irving, Trevathon, and Steve Johnson (I guess he doesn't quite count since he was drafted) then also signed Brooking and now Bradley to add to the Linebacker core.

    Now in the secondary they have added Carter, Adams, Moore, Harris, Carter, DRC, Porter, and Webster to the roster. I would say that is pretty balanced in adding to the front 7 and the Secondary at the same time on defense. They have added some smart Vets while adding some young talent. I would say that is about exactly how they say to help build up a team to become not only competitive for a few years but to have sustained success.

    Elway and company have helped take one of the worst historical defenses in NFL history to top 3 in a matter of a few years. You don't do that by doing it the wrong way.

  14. #14
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    So drafting a penetrating DT with our first round pick is ignoring the LOS? Thread is weak kid.

  15. #15
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    The originator of this thread has a right to speak what's going on (from their perspective). No doubt, some negative reaction will happen, because it's the way of the land on such threads, plus there will be valid disagreement.

    I see the concern, if we continue to add seasoned vets who have lost a step or two, and are expected to compete with young, very mobile athletes.....and do not replenish our youth pool. And if a team starts to get old overall, it's time to re-tool. I agree that Champ and Woodson (if we sign him), are past their prime. But then again, their experience makes up for a step or two, the vast majority of the time, plus their leadership can not be adequately measured.

    And losing Dumervil hurt for sure, until we see evidence on the field that we have filled whatever gap he left behind.

    BUT, here's where I see things different:

    1) Our O is amazing. SO, we will score points. No doubt about it. It is so good that we could get by with an ordinary D in most games.
    2) HOWEVER.....we had the best balance of O and D on any team last year. And this offseason we added much needed DT support (after years of us begging for it), another proven Dback (Cro), and a still hungry OLB (Phillips) who had 9.5 sacks just last year. And it's time for Ayers, Wolfe and others to take that next step up at the corners.....which I believe they will. So losing Dumervil may turn out to be a wash, if anything. In many ways I believe we'll be better on D. One more year under JDR, and pro bowl possibilities all over the unit - Miller, Woody (yes sir!), Harris and even Champ. I am almost convinced that Moore will be better (and don't just think about one play), as will Trevathan, Irving and Johnson.
    3) When I weigh it all out, and look what we did to further strengthen our O, I could hardly be happier. Therefore adding another seasoned vet or two at this stage is A-OK with me. More leadership. More experience. More stability in those tough late season games.
    4) And I am an advocate of making "splashes" when you are so close to the crown. I am very happy with what Elway has done this year, to prove he isn't done dealing yet. Sure, we need young guns for the future, and we do. BUT we did not trade up and lose draft picks, so we kept our eyes on the horizon, while making Free Agent maneuvers. And remember, we have a lot of talent with our young guys. We're sitting very nice for the "now" and the future.

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